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 Dovis wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:

 Dovis wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
So now your army has sisters, DW and what else? Oh, and that DW unit is how many points again (400+) and uses even more command points for anti-horde?

Also, how it said unit in more than one place?

So yeah.

Just pointing out possibilities, single orc 30 boy squad charge is a waste of 30 boys, never seen it used efficiently when opponent knows how to position.

You can put 15 point characters for that if you're SOB, you can use cyberwolves if you're a space wolf, you can use scouts...

Removed, mind your manners please - BrookM

You're a fool if you aren't terrified by a 30 deep squad of boys with 125 attacks coming at you. With 'ere we go they don't fail charges and they're big enough to to conga line around a second unit that they didn't charge so they can pile in and surround a unit they can't swing at guaranteeing you can't fall back next turn. If you think you're going to kill enough boyz in overwatch to dent the unit, you're dreaming. Warpath + Da Jump + 30 Boyz is one of the best things in the game right now.

Just google on how to spread the 9" bubble of area denial, you're trying to spook me with a tactic that only works on noobs, don't insult your own intelligence like that.

This topic is going off rails so I suspect a lock

This seems like a classic case of internet tactics. Your army seems to have the perfect answer to everything anyone suggests - we've now had the uber Sisters detachment of ultimate shootiness and protection, the DW detachment to prevent Da Jump Boyz from charging and now a perfect set of screens too, all in the one army. And somehow you're screening out the Orks while simultaneously unloading 60 storm bolter shots at close range. Something doesn't compute here. Nothing you're suggesting is necessarily wrong, it all just seems extremely unlikely. It has little practical use, basically.

My answer to 30man fast charging boys is to throw away a BSS and counter charge with buffed/stratagem Arco-flangellants, its like Chess, and i'm willing to give up 1 of my 6 BSS to remove a 30 boys blob hehehe
Edit: spelling, i cant engrish

Slipspace wrote:

 Dovis wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:

 Dovis wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
So now your army has sisters, DW and what else? Oh, and that DW unit is how many points again (400+) and uses even more command points for anti-horde?

Also, how it said unit in more than one place?

So yeah.

Just pointing out possibilities, single orc 30 boy squad charge is a waste of 30 boys, never seen it used efficiently when opponent knows how to position.

You can put 15 point characters for that if you're SOB, you can use cyberwolves if you're a space wolf, you can use scouts...

Removed, mind your manners please - BrookM

You're a fool if you aren't terrified by a 30 deep squad of boys with 125 attacks coming at you. With 'ere we go they don't fail charges and they're big enough to to conga line around a second unit that they didn't charge so they can pile in and surround a unit they can't swing at guaranteeing you can't fall back next turn. If you think you're going to kill enough boyz in overwatch to dent the unit, you're dreaming. Warpath + Da Jump + 30 Boyz is one of the best things in the game right now.

Just google on how to spread the 9" bubble of area denial, you're trying to spook me with a tactic that only works on noobs, don't insult your own intelligence like that.

This topic is going off rails so I suspect a lock

This seems like a classic case of internet tactics. Your army seems to have the perfect answer to everything anyone suggests - we've now had the uber Sisters detachment of ultimate shootiness and protection, the DW detachment to prevent Da Jump Boyz from charging and now a perfect set of screens too, all in the one army. And somehow you're screening out the Orks while simultaneously unloading 60 storm bolter shots at close range. Something doesn't compute here. Nothing you're suggesting is necessarily wrong, it all just seems extremely unlikely. It has little practical use, basically.

1) Dominions move before the battle begins, so you respond to the tactical situation
2) Dialogus/Scouts/insert whatever are strategically placed
3) Rest of your army is placed assuming you don't get to go 1st

Tactics is tactics, as is the fact that most players have none, that's why 30 boys teleporting looks like a threat to them. You think there is little plausibility to this because you haven't tried positioning and area denying, do try, you'll see how much harder it is for the melee oriented army.

Also unlike the other guy said - the screening units don't magically dissapear cause Lootas, because movement/psychic phase is followed by the shooting phase, meaning lootas don't even get to act.

You guys even have the order of the phases mixed, I'm not surprised tactics isn't yet something you're adept at

 BrookM wrote:
Hey guys, next time report and don't requote the offending bit all the time, saves me a LOT of cleaning up afterwards..

Sorry about that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
My answer to 30man fast charging boys is to throw away a BSS and counter charge with buffed/stratagem Arco-flangellants, its like Chess, and i'm willing to give up 1 of my 6 BSS to remove a 30 boys blob hehehe
Edit: spelling, i cant engrish

And when said 30 boyz charge 3 units instead of one?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dovis wrote:

Spoiler:

Slipspace wrote:

 Dovis wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:

 Dovis wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
So now your army has sisters, DW and what else? Oh, and that DW unit is how many points again (400+) and uses even more command points for anti-horde?

Also, how it said unit in more than one place?

So yeah.

Just pointing out possibilities, single orc 30 boy squad charge is a waste of 30 boys, never seen it used efficiently when opponent knows how to position.

You can put 15 point characters for that if you're SOB, you can use cyberwolves if you're a space wolf, you can use scouts...

Removed, mind your manners please - BrookM

You're a fool if you aren't terrified by a 30 deep squad of boys with 125 attacks coming at you. With 'ere we go they don't fail charges and they're big enough to to conga line around a second unit that they didn't charge so they can pile in and surround a unit they can't swing at guaranteeing you can't fall back next turn. If you think you're going to kill enough boyz in overwatch to dent the unit, you're dreaming. Warpath + Da Jump + 30 Boyz is one of the best things in the game right now.

Just google on how to spread the 9" bubble of area denial, you're trying to spook me with a tactic that only works on noobs, don't insult your own intelligence like that.

This topic is going off rails so I suspect a lock

This seems like a classic case of internet tactics. Your army seems to have the perfect answer to everything anyone suggests - we've now had the uber Sisters detachment of ultimate shootiness and protection, the DW detachment to prevent Da Jump Boyz from charging and now a perfect set of screens too, all in the one army. And somehow you're screening out the Orks while simultaneously unloading 60 storm bolter shots at close range. Something doesn't compute here. Nothing you're suggesting is necessarily wrong, it all just seems extremely unlikely. It has little practical use, basically.

1) Dominions move before the battle begins, so you respond to the tactical situation
2) Dialogus/Scouts/insert whatever are strategically placed
3) Rest of your army is placed assuming you don't get to go 1st

Tactics is tactics, as is the fact that most players have none, that's why 30 boys teleporting looks like a threat to them. You think there is little plausibility to this because you haven't tried positioning and area denying, do try, you'll see how much harder it is for the melee oriented army.

Also unlike the other guy said - the screening units don't magically dissapear cause Lootas, because movement/psychic phase is followed by the shooting phase, meaning lootas don't even get to act.

You guys even have the order of the phases mixed, *removed to avoid quoting stuff being reported*

1. Ork armies are apparently primarily mechanized, but even then, they'll shrug off, then slaughter 15 unmounted dominions.
2. And die to lootas before anyone charges. Or specifically, the ones in the way of a first turn charge will get killed by lootas.
3. So it still gets swamped with boyz while trying to get clear of the first unit which is tying up your shooting fire base. You'll beat the first unit, and it won't take long. It'll just take long enough.

And you continue with the insults. Great. If you don't like this thread could you not post rather then trying to get it locked?

 sfshilo wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
Why? They're not worth it.

Yup, so pray tell, how are sisters supposed to kill armor if their armor killing unit is being given stormbolters?

They have immolators, the best pound for point anti vehicle tank in the game.

I'm so confused. How are Immolators the best anti-vehicle tank in the game. Sarcasm doesn't transfer in writing maybe? What is happening here, up is down, left is right, cats are chasing dogs. Have I been playing wrong for 15 years?

sfshilo could play in a very casual meta, or uses them in huge numbers?

I'm trying to be optimistic.

summary:

The codex got some buffs in terms of stratagems, warlord traits, relics, and Order bonuses, but they lost a lot in Acts of Faith. They got a few point reductions and adjustments to certain units.

The codex still needs a lot of work though, so keep giving GW your feedback.

drbored wrote:
summary:

The codex got some buffs in terms of stratagems, warlord traits, relics, and Order bonuses, but they lost a lot in Acts of Faith. They got a few point reductions and adjustments to certain units.

The codex still needs a lot of work though, so keep giving GW your feedback.

I'm not sure that "Lost a lot" is really a sufficient description. Acts of Faith being nerfed effectively guts our offensive capabilities as well as our mobility and flexibility - We can't get in quick and close with anything except Dominions, and we can't do nearly as much once we get there.

Waaaghpower wrote:

drbored wrote:
summary:

The codex got some buffs in terms of stratagems, warlord traits, relics, and Order bonuses, but they lost a lot in Acts of Faith. They got a few point reductions and adjustments to certain units.

The codex still needs a lot of work though, so keep giving GW your feedback.

I'm not sure that "Lost a lot" is really a sufficient description. Acts of Faith being nerfed effectively guts our offensive capabilities as well as our mobility and flexibility - We can't get in quick and close with anything except Dominions, and we can't do nearly as much once we get there.

Yep, traded out offense and mobility for some extra defense and Vessels of the emperor. It's not...my favorite way to play the army but it's what we have right now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Creeping Dementia wrote:

 sfshilo wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
Why? They're not worth it.

Yup, so pray tell, how are sisters supposed to kill armor if their armor killing unit is being given stormbolters?

They have immolators, the best pound for point anti vehicle tank in the game.

I'm so confused. How are Immolators the best anti-vehicle tank in the game. Sarcasm doesn't transfer in writing maybe? What is happening here, up is down, left is right, cats are chasing dogs. Have I been playing wrong for 15 years?

No you haven't. Immolators are pretty solid at removing marines and such, but they're pretty sad at anti-tank. Multimeltas aren't great on a mobile platform.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
My answer to 30man fast charging boys is to throw away a BSS and counter charge with buffed/stratagem Arco-flangellants, its like Chess, and i'm willing to give up 1 of my 6 BSS to remove a 30 boys blob hehehe
Edit: spelling, i cant engrish

Why would he only hit one? The thirty blob of boys gets its pick of what it wants to charge. You'd need a 15 girl squad to have a reasonable chance at blocking 30 Orkz and they're likely to hit at least one other squad in the process.

Remember, all of your stuff is within 6" of a central character. It's not an unbeatable scenario but they have the advantage in both flexibility and mobility. You're relying on your defense and the Burning Rose turn to carry you through.

 deviantduck wrote:
You're a fool if you aren't terrified by a 30 deep squad of boys with 125 attacks coming at you. With 'ere we go they don't fail charges and they're big enough to to conga line around a second unit that they didn't charge so they can pile in and surround a unit they can't swing at guaranteeing you can't fall back next turn. If you think you're going to kill enough boyz in overwatch to dent the unit, you're dreaming. Warpath + Da Jump + 30 Boyz is one of the best things in the game right now.

a) yes it's scary IF you can do it
b) 'ere we go and evil sun=78% chance of doing it. Bit less than 4 times out of 5. That's not quaranteed
c) even if you get it there are units that actually take orks on the chin and survive it. Like the plague bearers that took wartrike, bikes and TWO units of boyz and had survivors. Albeit not many and required him rolling at least one 1 out of 3 dice but still
d) deep strike area denials. You aren't going to prevent them charging anything worthwhile. Player who knows what he does can do it so that you have nothing worthwhile charging especially with help of terrain. End result. You have one unit you can reach to but that's the unit you had to declare charge and it's soft enough it does. Tripointing is also easy to prevent if you know how to play. I have been subjected to this so often where there's literally nothing I can charge that I don't kill(and 3 pointing is impossible. I don't play against newbies) and that's actually worth using boyz. I have often been in situation I would have been better off deploying on my deployment zone normally because that's where I had to deep strike ANYWAY(literally no place elsewhere where 30 boyz fit that wasn't within 9" of enemy model...Unless I go to some empty corner miles away from any objective or unit worth killing so it would take at least 2 turns moving to get back to combat for maybe turn X+3 charge(X being turn I deepstriked in))!

It can be good and if you can do the tri point it's good but that requires mistake from opponent(or bad list from him). Not something you can count.

tneva82 wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
You're a fool if you aren't terrified by a 30 deep squad of boys with 125 attacks coming at you. With 'ere we go they don't fail charges and they're big enough to to conga line around a second unit that they didn't charge so they can pile in and surround a unit they can't swing at guaranteeing you can't fall back next turn. If you think you're going to kill enough boyz in overwatch to dent the unit, you're dreaming. Warpath + Da Jump + 30 Boyz is one of the best things in the game right now.

a) yes it's scary IF you can do it
b) 'ere we go and evil sun=78% chance of doing it. Bit less than 4 times out of 5. That's not quaranteed
c) even if you get it there are units that actually take orks on the chin and survive it. Like the plague bearers that took wartrike, bikes and TWO units of boyz and had survivors. Albeit not many and required him rolling at least one 1 out of 3 dice but still
d) deep strike area denials. You aren't going to prevent them charging anything worthwhile. Player who knows what he does can do it so that you have nothing worthwhile charging especially with help of terrain. End result. You have one unit you can reach to but that's the unit you had to declare charge and it's soft enough it does. Tripointing is also easy to prevent if you know how to play. I have been subjected to this so often where there's literally nothing I can charge that I don't kill(and 3 pointing is impossible. I don't play against newbies) and that's actually worth using boyz. I have often been in situation I would have been better off deploying on my deployment zone normally because that's where I had to deep strike ANYWAY(literally no place elsewhere where 30 boyz fit that wasn't within 9" of enemy model...Unless I go to some empty corner miles away from any objective or unit worth killing so it would take at least 2 turns moving to get back to combat for maybe turn X+3 charge(X being turn I deepstriked in))!

It can be good and if you can do the tri point it's good but that requires mistake from opponent(or bad list from him). Not something you can count.

It is when every single unit from your opponents army has to be within 6" of a single point and aren't one of the units that can take Orkz on the chin and survive. The Ork da jump bomb is pretty good against sisters in the new book because they're faster and more flexible, even though sisters are a bit tougher. There're things sisters can do to mitigate it, but then things Orkz can do to mitigate the things sisters can to mitigate the things that orkz can do. You also get basically a free turn to setup your bomb and clear out chaff units basically unmolested because it takes that first turn for the sisters blob to get most of their weapons into range.

It's an Ork favored matchup to be sure. They're both trying to do kind of the same thing but Orkz are better designed when it comes to doing it.

ERJAK wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

drbored wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
My answer to 30man fast charging boys is to throw away a BSS and counter charge with buffed/stratagem Arco-flangellants, its like Chess, and i'm willing to give up 1 of my 6 BSS to remove a 30 boys blob hehehe
Edit: spelling, i cant engrish

Why would he only hit one? The thirty blob of boys gets its pick of what it wants to charge. You'd need a 15 girl squad to have a reasonable chance at blocking 30 Orkz and they're likely to hit at least one other squad in the process.

Remember, all of your stuff is within 6" of a central character. It's not an unbeatable scenario but they have the advantage in both flexibility and mobility. You're relying on your defense and the Burning Rose turn to carry you through.

You can move your models you know. And i dont need to keep them all within 6" if i know im getting charged at, its better to move out of the bubble and not get charged.

As someone that also play Kraken nids with hordes, in a similar playstyle, you cant charge everything all the time, the other player knows the best spots to be charged, he knows he needs to counter fast moving units. I be glad to throw away my Flamer dom unit (vanguard, and + move) to block a couple blobs, from moving to far, and i have throw away BSS squads to place around for Da Jump.

Yes, models will die, yes they will kill off w/e 5-10man squad they get to.

But thats ok, something has to die, something has to stop them for a turn, and i rather my 51-60pt units take a hit and die, hopefulling killing a few via shooting before my main force takes the hit (SB Doms, HB Rets, Celestians, Arcos, Seraphim, etc..)

 Dovis wrote:

Spoiler:

Slipspace wrote:

 Dovis wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:

 Dovis wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
So now your army has sisters, DW and what else? Oh, and that DW unit is how many points again (400+) and uses even more command points for anti-horde?

Also, how it said unit in more than one place?

So yeah.

Just pointing out possibilities, single orc 30 boy squad charge is a waste of 30 boys, never seen it used efficiently when opponent knows how to position.

You can put 15 point characters for that if you're SOB, you can use cyberwolves if you're a space wolf, you can use scouts...

Removed, mind your manners please - BrookM

You're a fool if you aren't terrified by a 30 deep squad of boys with 125 attacks coming at you. With 'ere we go they don't fail charges and they're big enough to to conga line around a second unit that they didn't charge so they can pile in and surround a unit they can't swing at guaranteeing you can't fall back next turn. If you think you're going to kill enough boyz in overwatch to dent the unit, you're dreaming. Warpath + Da Jump + 30 Boyz is one of the best things in the game right now.

Just google on how to spread the 9" bubble of area denial, you're trying to spook me with a tactic that only works on noobs, don't insult your own intelligence like that.

This topic is going off rails so I suspect a lock

This seems like a classic case of internet tactics. Your army seems to have the perfect answer to everything anyone suggests - we've now had the uber Sisters detachment of ultimate shootiness and protection, the DW detachment to prevent Da Jump Boyz from charging and now a perfect set of screens too, all in the one army. And somehow you're screening out the Orks while simultaneously unloading 60 storm bolter shots at close range. Something doesn't compute here. Nothing you're suggesting is necessarily wrong, it all just seems extremely unlikely. It has little practical use, basically.

1) Dominions move before the battle begins, so you respond to the tactical situation
2) Dialogus/Scouts/insert whatever are strategically placed
3) Rest of your army is placed assuming you don't get to go 1st

Tactics is tactics, as is the fact that most players have none, that's why 30 boys teleporting looks like a threat to them. You think there is little plausibility to this because you haven't tried positioning and area denying, do try, you'll see how much harder it is for the melee oriented army.

Also unlike the other guy said - the screening units don't magically dissapear cause Lootas, because movement/psychic phase is followed by the shooting phase, meaning lootas don't even get to act.

You guys even have the order of the phases mixed, I'm not surprised tactics isn't yet something you're adept at

Screening isn't exactly high-level tactics. Everyone here is familiar with how it works. They're also familiar with how to deal with it so I'm not sure where this condescending attitude comes from? You seem to think you have some special insight into tactics others here don't have, but I'm not seeing anything to back that up beyond the usual internet standards of one side having the perfect answer to every potential counter (the magically appearing DW detachment to counter Orks, for example). Unless you know otherwise it's generally not a good idea to assume you're a better player than those you're talking to. I've played against a variety of Ork armies since the Codex came out and one thing they're remarkably good at is clearing screens quickly. Barring some very favourable LOS-blocking terrain for their opponents they tend to have enough firepower to kill small screening units like Scouts and enough speed to get to tougher units in one turn and kill them in close combat.

I think it would be useful at this point if you gave a sample army list for the SOB to demonstrate what you're talking about. There's been a lot of scepticism in this thread about a lot of your assertions and I think a lot of it centres around the idea you'll always have the right units for the job and they all fit nicely into an effective army.

Slipspace wrote:

 Dovis wrote:

Spoiler:

Slipspace wrote:

 Dovis wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:

 Dovis wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
So now your army has sisters, DW and what else? Oh, and that DW unit is how many points again (400+) and uses even more command points for anti-horde?

Also, how it said unit in more than one place?

So yeah.

Just pointing out possibilities, single orc 30 boy squad charge is a waste of 30 boys, never seen it used efficiently when opponent knows how to position.

You can put 15 point characters for that if you're SOB, you can use cyberwolves if you're a space wolf, you can use scouts...

Removed, mind your manners please - BrookM

You're a fool if you aren't terrified by a 30 deep squad of boys with 125 attacks coming at you. With 'ere we go they don't fail charges and they're big enough to to conga line around a second unit that they didn't charge so they can pile in and surround a unit they can't swing at guaranteeing you can't fall back next turn. If you think you're going to kill enough boyz in overwatch to dent the unit, you're dreaming. Warpath + Da Jump + 30 Boyz is one of the best things in the game right now.

Just google on how to spread the 9" bubble of area denial, you're trying to spook me with a tactic that only works on noobs, don't insult your own intelligence like that.

This topic is going off rails so I suspect a lock

This seems like a classic case of internet tactics. Your army seems to have the perfect answer to everything anyone suggests - we've now had the uber Sisters detachment of ultimate shootiness and protection, the DW detachment to prevent Da Jump Boyz from charging and now a perfect set of screens too, all in the one army. And somehow you're screening out the Orks while simultaneously unloading 60 storm bolter shots at close range. Something doesn't compute here. Nothing you're suggesting is necessarily wrong, it all just seems extremely unlikely. It has little practical use, basically.

1) Dominions move before the battle begins, so you respond to the tactical situation
2) Dialogus/Scouts/insert whatever are strategically placed
3) Rest of your army is placed assuming you don't get to go 1st

Tactics is tactics, as is the fact that most players have none, that's why 30 boys teleporting looks like a threat to them. You think there is little plausibility to this because you haven't tried positioning and area denying, do try, you'll see how much harder it is for the melee oriented army.

Also unlike the other guy said - the screening units don't magically dissapear cause Lootas, because movement/psychic phase is followed by the shooting phase, meaning lootas don't even get to act.

You guys even have the order of the phases mixed, I'm not surprised tactics isn't yet something you're adept at

Screening isn't exactly high-level tactics. Everyone here is familiar with how it works. They're also familiar with how to deal with it so I'm not sure where this condescending attitude comes from? You seem to think you have some special insight into tactics others here don't have, but I'm not seeing anything to back that up beyond the usual internet standards of one side having the perfect answer to every potential counter (the magically appearing DW detachment to counter Orks, for example). Unless you know otherwise it's generally not a good idea to assume you're a better player than those you're talking to. I've played against a variety of Ork armies since the Codex came out and one thing they're remarkably good at is clearing screens quickly. Barring some very favourable LOS-blocking terrain for their opponents they tend to have enough firepower to kill small screening units like Scouts and enough speed to get to tougher units in one turn and kill them in close combat.

I think it would be useful at this point if you gave a sample army list for the SOB to demonstrate what you're talking about. There's been a lot of scepticism in this thread about a lot of your assertions and I think a lot of it centres around the idea you'll always have the right units for the job and they all fit nicely into an effective army.

1) Yes it isn't high level tactics, that's why not using it is telling a lot about the player in question

2) People are often skeptical when they have wrong assumptions. The topic name itself implies SOB to be a secondary or even a third detachment, taken for CP and capacity to better deal with low armor chaff when compared to guardsmen. Just cause people spun their own narratives and then my statements didn't fit in their own narratives says nothing about the quality of my statements, it just points out the trouble some people have reading and understanding what's written

3) Useful SOB list example - 2 Canoness, 3 BSS, 1 SB Dominion squad, playing as a support for Knights/Custodes/Space Marines of various flavours



That is really the reason for their existence, GW did the army 100% spot on what they're supposed to be - anti heretic/orc clearers with the capacity to dampen the efficiency of psychic power users

@Dovis

A primarily mechanized army isn't exactly a horde army now is it?

I never said SOB are good at taking on mechanized armies, I specifically stated they're good against a horde. They are weak vs an armored force, but taking such forces on isn't their purpose in the first place

I added some insults cause you were talking in a patronizing manner while obviously playing lower league games

No it's not. Not sure how an attempted stormbolter alpha strike will help stop that.
However, on the original topic of a horde of foot boyz, they really aren't that good. 15 Stormbolters, rerolling 1's kill 20 boyz. Orks can tie you up turn one, and swamp you turn two. You're already running two detachments, Sisters and DeathWatch, both combined are (with just a full unit of DW terminators) are over 500 points.
Next you're trying to tell us the army that specializes in swamping armies won't somehow manage to swamp four units and a character. Oh, and you're doing it on foot, and 16 of the 26 models have no way to stand up to orcs in melee.
Finally, you're telling two people who have a combined experience with their army of over 25+ years that they don't know how to run their army and follow that up with slurs (in violation of board rules at that) when they tell you you're making fallacious assumptions.

A person explains to you how it works in reality of higher level play and you still concoct a situation, that makes you seem sort of right, but that situation is in no way going to be reflected in reality.

A zealous belief despite all facts, heh, at least you play an army that matches your worldview in the fluff

No, two people who are experienced in running their army tell you that you're making faulty assumptions and you still insist on telling them they have no clue what they're doing and throwing in insults to boot. You claim reality is on your side, when simple addition, play experience, and actual familiarity with the army and with orks show that you've come to faulty conclusions. You compound this by verbally attacking the people who try to tell you this.

Grow up.

1) Yes it isn't high level tactics, that's why not using it is telling a lot about the player in question

2) People are often skeptical when they have wrong assumptions. The topic name itself implies SOB to be a secondary or even a third detachment, taken for CP and capacity to better deal with low armor chaff when compared to guardsmen. Just cause people spun their own narratives and then my statements didn't fit in their own narratives says nothing about the quality of my statements, it just points out the trouble some people have reading and understanding what's written

3) Useful SOB list example - 2 Canoness, 3 BSS, 1 SB Dominion squad, playing as a support for Knights/Custodes/Space Marines of various flavours



That is really the reason for their existence, GW did the army 100% spot on what they're supposed to be - anti heretic/orc clearers with the capacity to dampen the efficiency of psychic power users

1. No one said there wouldn't be screens. You only started talking about them when we mentioned getting swamped in CC. Every army can clear screens, either by themselves, or with soup. It is a base level tactic that takes all of two games to learn properly.

2. Yes, people are skeptical when someone posts wrong assumptions and claims to be a tactical genius. Every time someone tells you that you're making an assumption though, you add in something else, such as a Max unit of DW terminators. Lately you've been making adhominum attacks on two of us while making airs of being a tactical jenius (misspelling is on purpose). Get off your high horse.

3. That could be useful. I'm a fan of The Faithful 17. Cannoness (w/Brazer of Holy Fire), missionary, and 3 BSS with 3x storm bolters. Gives possible screens, and four DtW uses.

 Dovis wrote:


1) Yes it isn't high level tactics, that's why not using it is telling a lot about the player in question

2) People are often skeptical when they have wrong assumptions. The topic name itself implies SOB to be a secondary or even a third detachment, taken for CP and capacity to better deal with low armor chaff when compared to guardsmen. Just cause people spun their own narratives and then my statements didn't fit in their own narratives says nothing about the quality of my statements, it just points out the trouble some people have reading and understanding what's written

3) Useful SOB list example - 2 Canoness, 3 BSS, 1 SB Dominion squad, playing as a support for Knights/Custodes/Space Marines of various flavours


That is really the reason for their existence, GW did the army 100% spot on what they're supposed to be - anti heretic/orc clearers with the capacity to dampen the efficiency of psychic power users

So no room for those 3x5 Dominion squads with SB then? So all that talk about them on the first page was for nothing? Same with the DW talk. Your theoretical force is now a SoB battalion, a knight detachment and some DW (presumably a battalion). So you have too few bodies to hold objectives, limited mobility and to top it all off you're using SoB for horde clearance when knights and DW do that exceptionally well anyway. See, this is why it's useful to talk about things in the context of an actual army, and not just pure theory.

It's also useful to not be arrogant and condescending but one thing at a time I guess.

Well, to be fair, you can make SoB the best Anti-horde Flamer army in the game if you wanted to...

39 Flamers and Combi-flamers
21 Heavy Flamers
12 Hand Flamers
4 Immolator Flamers (2 HF basically) so 8 HF's

Total: 80 Flamers and 54 bolters

Slipspace wrote:

 Dovis wrote:


1) Yes it isn't high level tactics, that's why not using it is telling a lot about the player in question

2) People are often skeptical when they have wrong assumptions. The topic name itself implies SOB to be a secondary or even a third detachment, taken for CP and capacity to better deal with low armor chaff when compared to guardsmen. Just cause people spun their own narratives and then my statements didn't fit in their own narratives says nothing about the quality of my statements, it just points out the trouble some people have reading and understanding what's written

3) Useful SOB list example - 2 Canoness, 3 BSS, 1 SB Dominion squad, playing as a support for Knights/Custodes/Space Marines of various flavours


That is really the reason for their existence, GW did the army 100% spot on what they're supposed to be - anti heretic/orc clearers with the capacity to dampen the efficiency of psychic power users

So no room for those 3x5 Dominion squads with SB then? So all that talk about them on the first page was for nothing? Same with the DW talk. Your theoretical force is now a SoB battalion, a knight detachment and some DW (presumably a battalion). So you have too few bodies to hold objectives, limited mobility and to top it all off you're using SoB for horde clearance when knights and DW do that exceptionally well anyway. See, this is why it's useful to talk about things in the context of an actual army, and not just pure theory.

It's also useful to not be arrogant and condescending but one thing at a time I guess.

1) Wrong assumptions again, it's rather problematic when people read what they want to, instead of what's written

2) You asked for an example - I gave you one

3) New example doesn't replace/invalidate old examples

 Dovis wrote:

Slipspace wrote:

 Dovis wrote:


1) Yes it isn't high level tactics, that's why not using it is telling a lot about the player in question

2) People are often skeptical when they have wrong assumptions. The topic name itself implies SOB to be a secondary or even a third detachment, taken for CP and capacity to better deal with low armor chaff when compared to guardsmen. Just cause people spun their own narratives and then my statements didn't fit in their own narratives says nothing about the quality of my statements, it just points out the trouble some people have reading and understanding what's written

3) Useful SOB list example - 2 Canoness, 3 BSS, 1 SB Dominion squad, playing as a support for Knights/Custodes/Space Marines of various flavours


That is really the reason for their existence, GW did the army 100% spot on what they're supposed to be - anti heretic/orc clearers with the capacity to dampen the efficiency of psychic power users

So no room for those 3x5 Dominion squads with SB then? So all that talk about them on the first page was for nothing? Same with the DW talk. Your theoretical force is now a SoB battalion, a knight detachment and some DW (presumably a battalion). So you have too few bodies to hold objectives, limited mobility and to top it all off you're using SoB for horde clearance when knights and DW do that exceptionally well anyway. See, this is why it's useful to talk about things in the context of an actual army, and not just pure theory.

It's also useful to not be arrogant and condescending but one thing at a time I guess.

1) Wrong assumptions again, it's rather problematic when people read what they want to, instead of what's written

2) You asked for an example - I gave you one

3) New example doesn't replace/invalidate old examples

You spent three pages talking about how unbeatably good 15 SB dominions are. We didn't make assumptions. You've been talking about it for over a day now. Then when you post a list for the first time ever, it magically doesn't have that super detachment you've been fighting so strongly over. So yeah. Not a wrong assumption.

When you're asked to post a sample list, people rightly assume you're going to post the one you've been championing.

 Mmmpi wrote:

 Dovis wrote:

Slipspace wrote:

 Dovis wrote:


1) Yes it isn't high level tactics, that's why not using it is telling a lot about the player in question

2) People are often skeptical when they have wrong assumptions. The topic name itself implies SOB to be a secondary or even a third detachment, taken for CP and capacity to better deal with low armor chaff when compared to guardsmen. Just cause people spun their own narratives and then my statements didn't fit in their own narratives says nothing about the quality of my statements, it just points out the trouble some people have reading and understanding what's written

3) Useful SOB list example - 2 Canoness, 3 BSS, 1 SB Dominion squad, playing as a support for Knights/Custodes/Space Marines of various flavours


That is really the reason for their existence, GW did the army 100% spot on what they're supposed to be - anti heretic/orc clearers with the capacity to dampen the efficiency of psychic power users

So no room for those 3x5 Dominion squads with SB then? So all that talk about them on the first page was for nothing? Same with the DW talk. Your theoretical force is now a SoB battalion, a knight detachment and some DW (presumably a battalion). So you have too few bodies to hold objectives, limited mobility and to top it all off you're using SoB for horde clearance when knights and DW do that exceptionally well anyway. See, this is why it's useful to talk about things in the context of an actual army, and not just pure theory.

It's also useful to not be arrogant and condescending but one thing at a time I guess.

1) Wrong assumptions again, it's rather problematic when people read what they want to, instead of what's written

2) You asked for an example - I gave you one

3) New example doesn't replace/invalidate old examples

You spent three pages talking about how unbeatably good 15 SB dominions are. We didn't make assumptions. You've been talking about it for over a day now. Then when you post a list for the first time ever, it magically doesn't have that super detachment you've been fighting so strongly over. So yeah. Not a wrong assumption.

When you're asked to post a sample list, people rightly assume you're going to post the one you've been championing.

1) They are good, I gave you the math, they kill 19.65 orcs without the +1 BS, that's already 2/3rds of their price returned

2) Dominions can move before combat, that means you can either drive them closer or farther from the enemy

3) There was another guy that explained the same thing.

You guys like spinning narratives in you head to justify your false assumptions. I would advise to instead try soaking in the experience other people have, people who don't have the same problems you do, because they just might know something you refuse to believe

"You guys like spinning narratives in you head to justify your false assumptions"
Which is exactly what you're doing too btw.
You never played them and you're not going to play them anytime soon (unless it isn't you that said you're waiting for plastic models).
You just came out with the math because the beta codex was released and thought "ZOMG ! They can kill a bunch of orks !!!" ignoring that it's something they could already do and better before, made a post, and when people told you that it wasn't as good as it looked like, you started making more assumptions.

So yeah, SoBs have stuff to shoot hordes. There.

Imho, this thread has run its course.

So you have nothing to address anything else that people have responded to you about? Just going to ignore the fact that they're calling you out on your BS?

So far you've yet to demonstrate anything other than that you know how to move goal posts.


Yes, this thread has run it's course. I'll contact a mod.

The fact that you can't recognize yourself is telling.

Well, I'm just going to hit ignore and go on with life.

Have a good night the rest of you!

If you have nothing of use to contribute to the thread then do not post in it.

Further spamming of the thread --or insults -- especially by those warned before will result in suspensions.