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Made in no
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




Fun read, I'm rooting for you man!

Regarding how many points you should have available for a 1750 list, I'd say 2250. Generally speaking my armies have the same sort of "core" even in different builds, so around 1k-1250 points are by and large unchanged between lists. Then you have another 500-750 points that can be fiddled with however you want.

I'm guessing GSC will have a few interesting options when it comes to that since you can use IG units to form some sort of backline or forgoe that entirely.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Whlist as covered I’m aiming for a 1750 point force, I am aware I’ll likely need to collect and paint more than that, to provide options and list flexibility.

For those that followed the same thinking, what do you reckon is the ‘right size’ of collection?


That actually depends a lot on a) how much you like changing lists b) what faction you play c) how future proof collection you are looking for. I don't like running identical lists with only tiny changes when rules change changing balance so that requires more options. Orks also are HUGE army in that they have lots and lots of units. Check my sig. That's actually less points than I have orks BUT it's not because I have like dozens of meganobz I rarely use! It's more of unit of this and unit of that etc. I indeed have only recently added my first unit of nobz to painting table and FA is seriously small amount...But as orks have lots of units having option to field most of units at least once adds up REAL fast. And of course then comes future proofing...With GW tinkering with rules and codexes what was good yesterday is worthless next day so if you want to be sure you don't need to paint something in a hurry when rules change just before tournament you need some more...

At least here 2k is still fairly common(either that or 1750) so if I wanted to be fairly conservative I would be aiming for 2.5k-3k myself. And accept I'll be adding to that later as well. Not sure how much options cult has though.

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/10/20/tneva82-tournament-report/ <- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in it
Ichor-Dripping Talos Monstrosity




Italy

Yeah I agree. 2500-3000 points is the minimum for people that want to play at competitive levels. I don't know about GSC models but usually magnets are your best friend in keeping the models count limited as you don't need to buy the same unit you already have if you want to run it with different loadout (it may happen quite frequently with the current GW trend of changing the rules with FAQs or other books like CA).

An example: ork nobz in this edition had their flavor with all the three basic melee combinations, PK, big choppa and choppa. Since you need them to lead boyz squads but also the full nobz squad is good you may want 15ish of them. Without magnets you're either stuck on the options you glued on them or you need 30-40 nobz to cover all the possibilities.

Orks 9000
Space Wolves 6500
Drukhari 4500 
   
Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






Ah I'm not too bothered about model count If I need to buy some extra sets to have an array of Special/Heavy weapons, I'm good with that.

YMMV of course, only speaking for my own pocket.

For GSC, that'll typically mean two HW per box, and two SW per box, leaving me six Spods. As I tend to max out weapon slots, that should allow me to equip the Spods with Autoguns, as the majority I have are Shotgun armed. All about flex - spesh as currently, I can mix up Autogun and Shotgun in a unit.

All part of my blundering about in the dark trying to get a handle on it.

Oh yeah! This weeks self-set target? First squad Acolytes sprayed Mechanicus Standard Grey. Will likely do a bit of Abaddon Black tonight, maybe make a start basecoating the weapons too. Reckon little and often may be the key to my own painting success.

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Made in ca
Dipping With Wood Stain




t.dot

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ah I'm not too bothered about model count If I need to buy some extra sets to have an array of Special/Heavy weapons, I'm good with that.

YMMV of course, only speaking for my own pocket.

For GSC, that'll typically mean two HW per box, and two SW per box, leaving me six Spods. As I tend to max out weapon slots, that should allow me to equip the Spods with Autoguns, as the majority I have are Shotgun armed. All about flex - spesh as currently, I can mix up Autogun and Shotgun in a unit.

All part of my blundering about in the dark trying to get a handle on it.

Oh yeah! This weeks self-set target? First squad Acolytes sprayed Mechanicus Standard Grey. Will likely do a bit of Abaddon Black tonight, maybe make a start basecoating the weapons too. Reckon little and often may be the key to my own painting success.


Yup, whatever works for you! One of the reasons why I love Necrons is that there are almost no upgrade options available, which makes collecting them very simple.

And I subscribe to the hour or two a night method. Between work and school, I don't have long bursts to paint so I try and get myself to do a little every day.

   
Made in gb
Irked Necron Immortal




 Eihnlazer wrote:
IanVanCheese wrote:
Ignore whoever told you to drop a Stalker (a good necron unit post CA) for an Annihilation Barge (a mediocre-to-poor Necron unit all edition).

Anyway, best of luck with starting up the GSC. A buddy of mine is trying to get from 0 to 1750 with GSC in time for a tournament in May. I'm lucky, I only have about 1250 to paint up in that time.




lmao he had the thermal stalkers which are not good unless your opponent ignores them. DDA is what I actually wanted him to swap it out for btw.


DDA is great, but Annihilation Barges really do suck. I agree thermal Stalker can be a bit meh in a lot of matchups, but it's same pts as THGC Stalker which is solid. Anyway, don't want to drift off topic too much.
   
Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






NooB Question...

Am I reading it right, and models with multiple ranged weapons can shoot them all?

Because if so, that’s 3 shots a turn from my Neophytes with Shotguns?

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Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Apart from pistols and grenades. But if you have 2 rapid fire/assault/heavy weapons fire away. In h2h also having say two 2 handed weapons or 2 handed+1 handed is no worries(so for ork nobs big choppa+choppa is popular combo).

Wonder why imperium doesn't simply give 10000 bolters to one captain ;-) That would be lots of BS2+ shots from one guy ;-)

In your case no though as pistol is not okay. With pistols it specifically says you choose pistol(s) or non-pistols. With grenades it specifically says instead of shooting other weapons. For some reason shooting lascannon and bolter would be easier than firing bolt pistol and bolt gun.

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/10/20/tneva82-tournament-report/ <- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






Ah fair enough

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Dipping With Wood Stain




t.dot

tneva82 wrote:
Apart from pistols and grenades. But if you have 2 rapid fire/assault/heavy weapons fire away. In h2h also having say two 2 handed weapons or 2 handed+1 handed is no worries(so for ork nobs big choppa+choppa is popular combo).

Wonder why imperium doesn't simply give 10000 bolters to one captain ;-) That would be lots of BS2+ shots from one guy ;-)

In your case no though as pistol is not okay. With pistols it specifically says you choose pistol(s) or non-pistols. With grenades it specifically says instead of shooting other weapons. For some reason shooting lascannon and bolter would be easier than firing bolt pistol and bolt gun.


I think the abstraction is that sidearms aren't usually kept drawn, and grenades need to be primed. So it takes extra effort to "draw" the pistol or "ready" the grenade.

IanVanCheese wrote:

DDA is great, but Annihilation Barges really do suck. I agree thermal Stalker can be a bit meh in a lot of matchups, but it's same pts as THGC Stalker which is solid. Anyway, don't want to drift off topic too much.


The Particle Shredder or the THGC are the way to go. THGC gives you that extra range, so it's purely a support piece. The Particle Shredder can be good as a mid-range piece, and it has the potential to do some nasty work.

Annihilation Barges, even with the points drop, are still garbage, and it's primarily because the Twin Tesla Destructor is a piece of garbage. It's like hitting opponents with a sack of kittens.

DDAs are definitely a top tier unit, and I usually field 3.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/16 14:39:46


   
Made in us
Blood Angel Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries




 DV8 wrote:


Annihilation Barges, even with the points drop, are still garbage, and it's primarily because the Twin Tesla Destructor is a piece of garbage. It's like hitting opponents with a sack of kittens.

That might hurt or they might die form the cuteness of the kittens.... or many the kittens are Korn kittens ;D.
Saying all that though I don’t play necrons so my knowledge of them is very limited.

Praise the holy emperor. Burn the heretics.
~2500
~ 2000
[CENTER][/CENTER
 
   
Made in ca
Dipping With Wood Stain




t.dot

Emperors will wrote:
 DV8 wrote:


Annihilation Barges, even with the points drop, are still garbage, and it's primarily because the Twin Tesla Destructor is a piece of garbage. It's like hitting opponents with a sack of kittens.

That might hurt or they might die form the cuteness of the kittens.... or many the kittens are Korn kittens ;D.
Saying all that though I don’t play necrons so my knowledge of them is very limited.


Assault 8, Rng 24", S7, AP0, D1, on a platform that costs 100 points (T6, W8, Sv4+, with Quantum Shielding).

It's bad.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/16 19:04:27


   
Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






I dunno. I found mine to be quite flexible in the game. They were certainly enough to keep my opponent’s head down.

Sure, a point of AP on the big boys wouldn’t go amiss (ably demonstrated when they were in half range, being Mephrit), but I enjoyed fielding them

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t.dot

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I dunno. I found mine to be quite flexible in the game. They were certainly enough to keep my opponent’s head down.

Sure, a point of AP on the big boys wouldn’t go amiss (ably demonstrated when they were in half range, being Mephrit), but I enjoyed fielding them


Oh for sure, in casual games they're certainly not bad. But when you're optimizing a list for tournament play, 120 points could be better spent on other things (40 points more buys you a DDA, for example). It's just one of those things where I feel other units do what it does, better.

   
Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






I....I.....I may have just upped the stakes somewhat.

Mate of mine has always fancied doing the LVO. But flying in from the UK, kind of cost prohibitive once you factor in the room.

Yet, 2020? I'm game. Literally. I'm game.

Need to crack on, get a GSC army assembled, painted and bashed into efficiency. Get some tournaments under my belt this year, then be ready!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And, my journey from Chump to Champ (or at least, Chump that has a painted army, but isn't terribly good with it!) may be coming to a podcast near you soon.

Friend of mine owns and runs Tabletop Gaming Events. It's relatively new, and he's looking for extra content. So naturally, I've not considered the consequences and just gone ahead and shoved my bonce into that Lion's mouth!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/17 12:50:25


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Dipping With Wood Stain




t.dot

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I....I.....I may have just upped the stakes somewhat.

Mate of mine has always fancied doing the LVO. But flying in from the UK, kind of cost prohibitive once you factor in the room.

Yet, 2020? I'm game. Literally. I'm game.

Need to crack on, get a GSC army assembled, painted and bashed into efficiency. Get some tournaments under my belt this year, then be ready!


Something to bear in mind is that LVO is an ITC event (the culmination of the ITC season, actually), and so you'll need to play with and familiarize yourself with ITC 40k (which is very unlike "normal" 40k, particularly in the way objectives are scored). Armies built for Maelstrom or Eternal War missions are typically very different from ITC (which also impacts the way you tend to play the game).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/17 21:20:27


   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Yep good suggestion to get used to itc. Might not get tournaments with it but at least some non tournament games will be good

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/10/20/tneva82-tournament-report/ <- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






Seems smaller, more local ones near me use ITC. So hopefully I’ll be well served.

But now is also the time to start saving!

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Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






Gah!

Totes forgot I was working yesterday. So painting plans are delayed. Yes, two weeks in and I’m already behind!

However, four days off next week, and it’s payday. I expect to get the back of the first Neophyte unit broken on Friday (will have had a chance o pick up the paints I need), and then another unit done and dusted by the Monday. Possibly also some Acolytes.

And in other developments, I may have set off a chain reaction whereby a good chunk of my local club will be off to the LVO in either 2020 or 2021....

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Dipping With Wood Stain




t.dot

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Gah!

Totes forgot I was working yesterday. So painting plans are delayed. Yes, two weeks in and I’m already behind!

However, four days off next week, and it’s payday. I expect to get the back of the first Neophyte unit broken on Friday (will have had a chance o pick up the paints I need), and then another unit done and dusted by the Monday. Possibly also some Acolytes.

And in other developments, I may have set off a chain reaction whereby a good chunk of my local club will be off to the LVO in either 2020 or 2021....


Hey man, if you ever need speed painting tips, you let me know.

And I think the best part of attending these tournaments, especially non-local ones, is going with a group. So many memories!

   
Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






I’m following Duncan’s vid on Warhammer TV.

May not do the further highlighting. But defo working to get it tabletop standard, and nice and uniform.

I might experiment with a very thin brown was on the skin. Get them looking suitably grimey.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In terms of army, I’ve been tweaking around with BattleScribe.

Turns out I can add in two Goliath Trucks, and I’m at 1750. Unless of course the Codex drops points across the board.

The three Manticores I’m torn on. They’re definitely going in the list, but I’m thinking how best to use them.

They don’t need LoS of course, and with their ridiculous range, I can tickle nearly any part of the board. Question is, do I first strike against big stuff I don’t much fancy fighting, or do I use them to blat enemy infantry squads, to try to reduce their objective holding optione from the get go?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/20 15:53:56


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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Hydra's would be better in my opinion.

They are far more useful over the course of the game. Especially in ITC format.

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Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






All about overwhelming them in the first turn, as I don't need LoS.

If I can get good at target assignation, I could cause merry hell with their plans. Sort of 'look for the lynchpin, and give a good yank'.

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Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






Aaaaand the day before payday, the Manticore Rocket Tank is back in stock.

It’s a sign! A sign I tells ya! A sign from the not-four-armed-definitely-only-two-certainly-only-the-requisite-number-of-limbs Emperor!

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Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






First of two Manticores now built, barring the tracks. Second one going in the workshop tonight I reckons.

GSC Codex to be pre-ordered this weekend. May get an extra character too, but may wait until I've had a read of the 'Dex, then form a shopping list from there.

In terms of the LVO next year or 2021? Well, believe it or not from my youthful visage and veritable mane of hair, I'm 40 next year. And my parents have offered to pay for the necessary flights too and from.....

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t.dot

I assume you've read the recent blurb on them on the Warhammer Community website.

If you play Infinity at all, your army gets camo markers. CAMO MARKERS! So many fun mind games to be had!

   
Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






I have, and I am fully tumescent with delight!

Off to GW after work to grab the last paints I need (having bought the wrong ones last week. I was horribly ill, in my defence!)

In theory, Fat Paul is joining me on Saturday for a long old painting sesh too.

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t.dot

Have you had a chance to take a look at the GSC book now that it's been released?

I'm taking a gander and my immediate impression is that a lot of their gimmick is going to be abusing their Ambush tokens. Their Cult Creeds are also really interesting, and will really impact (or be impacted) by the units you take/want to take. I think Nomadic Survivalists would probably be my go to, although I'd have to write up some lists to see. I really love the Jackals but they're expensive $$ wise and cheap as chips points wise, so an entire army of them probably wouldn't be economically feasible...or good...

Aberrants are also pretty good I think.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/12 14:39:05


   
Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






At the moment, no due to a small hiccup in finances. But this weekend I shall be up and about town to grab a copy.

I feel Ambush is so good, it's one I may not actually overly use... See, I may never end up on the top tables, but I'm hoping to be that thorn in the side of even the best players, who will struggle (hopefully) to win big against me.

And that means doing the unexpected, defying convention, and really really really learning my own force, inside and out.

Defo getting more Aberrants though. Too much temptation to 'A Perfect Ambush' with them, and watch them wreck face.

Current 'cunning' (aka, probably bobbins) plan is to reduce my opponent's scoring units ASAP. The three Manticores can put a dent in pretty much anything, and the Aberrants can help to either tackle something else, or remove a particularly stubborn stain, whilst having a chance at standing up to retaliatory fire in my opponents next turn.

And looking at some of the 'feared' lists at the LVO, stuff like 7 fliers, I'm all about seizing and maintaining that first turn pressure, whilst my little cheap spods scamper about seizing objectives (almost definitely going to be spending that 1CP to keep mine secret, every single game). After all, the fliers will no doubt take their toll, and the Manticore's days will be numbered....but that doesn't matter a damn if my opponent is struggling to actually bag any VPs.

Perhaps it'll work. Perhaps it'll choke. Strikes me as Even Stevens whether I'll go down as the Scrotey Little Upstart David That Aimed His Sling For A Podshot, or just be a greasy smear on the way to everyone else's resounding victories.

Long as I git gud enough to stand my ground and at least have a chance of an interesting game, I'm good! Though I would still secretly like to be an awful tyrant of bizarre ideas my opponents didn't see coming and couldn't possibly react to

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t.dot

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
At the moment, no due to a small hiccup in finances. But this weekend I shall be up and about town to grab a copy.

I feel Ambush is so good, it's one I may not actually overly use... See, I may never end up on the top tables, but I'm hoping to be that thorn in the side of even the best players, who will struggle (hopefully) to win big against me.

And that means doing the unexpected, defying convention, and really really really learning my own force, inside and out.

Defo getting more Aberrants though. Too much temptation to 'A Perfect Ambush' with them, and watch them wreck face.


Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor will be the perfect cult to use as well, since you add +1 to charge/advance rolls for units on the turn they appear, so even a poor roll of 1 or 2 puts you within an easy 7 or 6" charge. It also gives you access to 'A Plan Generations In The Making' to basically Nope key strats (re: Knights), although that's a LOT of CP. You'll definitely want a Clamavus and Nexos to try and regen some CP.

Current 'cunning' (aka, probably bobbins) plan is to reduce my opponent's scoring units ASAP. The three Manticores can put a dent in pretty much anything, and the Aberrants can help to either tackle something else, or remove a particularly stubborn stain, whilst having a chance at standing up to retaliatory fire in my opponents next turn.


So I don't know what interactions you have planned vis-a-vis Regimental doctrines and orders. The Brood Brothers rule allows you to have one detachment that is Astra Militarum and still be Battle Forged, but you essentially lose all detachment abilities, regimental doctrines, strategems, orders, relics, etc for that detachment from the Astra Militarum book. It's a steep tax. Is it worth it? Not quite sure.

And looking at some of the 'feared' lists at the LVO, stuff like 7 fliers, I'm all about seizing and maintaining that first turn pressure, whilst my little cheap spods scamper about seizing objectives (almost definitely going to be spending that 1CP to keep mine secret, every single game). After all, the fliers will no doubt take their toll, and the Manticore's days will be numbered....but that doesn't matter a damn if my opponent is struggling to actually bag any VPs.


If you're playing ITC, you don't use mission cards. So there's no such thing as secret mission objectives (not quite sure what the interaction would be with the 4x Secondary objectives,...but that would be pretty cool if GSC were allowed to keep those secret).

IMO you're probably going to want to stack a lot of your objective campers as Cult of the Rusted Claw. Having +1 armor against AP 0 or -1 attacks is phenomenal, and MSU Jackals with Demo charges and Quad-bike Mining Lasers make really quick, durable objective grabbers (especially with -1 to Hit against them)! There's also a fantastic strat, 'A Telepathic Summons'. 2 CP, a Psyker basically forgoes casting powers and you get to bring a new infantry or biker unit with Cult Ambush worth power level 3D6 (so average 10.5). I would bring a Magus specifically for this purpose. 20 Hybrids with Hand Flamers is only 11 power, and Jackals are cheap as chips as well (3 power for every 4 bikers, +2 for each Wolfquad).

The only downside is you'd have to buy and paint a lot of spare models. I would almost say 3x Battalion (easy given how cheap GSC units are) is almost mandatory given how CP hungry your army is going to be.

   
 
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