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 Draco wrote:
Minimum cultist or scouts could be payment for command points.

You can also use allies for command points. If you like terminators you can take GK battalion with 3*terminator units and dreadknights with SM or DA outrider detachments.Terminators are not point efficient so cultist are better point sacrifice.

only paladins can run around in 3man squads. normal termintors have to run in 5 man squads. It would have been awesome if they could be run as 3s.


Knights and some halverins, DW seem like a good army for OP. A mix of DW and knights sounds even better, it could actually be an ok army to play with.

There are some characters that give you bonus CPs. Calagar, Guiliman I know, as I play Ultras, but there might be more in other factions. These, plus the recycle CP traits could help add to and stretch the minimal CPs you gain from using the outrider, spearhead, etc. detachments.

Most characters who give CP actually strongly incentivise Troops via their other rules (Calgar, Guiliman, the DA one).

Find out what you hate about "troops", and pick a faction that doesn't do that.

For instance, hate the "just some random DOODZ sitting around" aspect? Pick an army based on Troops, like Harliquins. Or Deathwatch. Or GK (only if you really want to lose on this one, though). Their "basic doods" aren't basic.

Hate 1W models? Knights need no troops!

Alternately, you can play detatchments that don't use troops - you'l be CP starved, which is fair.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Specifically, with you saying:

"But I don't like troops. For this discussion troops are anything thats pretty cheep, slow, not too tough and not really scary in either shooting or melee. "

Take a look at Thousand Sons and Plague Marines. I don't think they're what you'd expect from Troops.

So far it seems we have 3 viable options:

A) Play Knights
B) Play Deathwatch, specifically adding Bikes/Termies to your KTs, or just using Intercessor units (which are good)
C) Just suck it up and take 3 min Troop units. Field them or don't, but pay the points for them and consider those points spent the price of the CPs

Option C is actually my personal take. I've played a bike heavy Eldar list since 4E, but due to their OPness in 7E, GW nerfed them out of the Troops selection. Still pissed about it, but at least they are affordable after CA2018.
I just take Rangers and occasionally a Guardian/Storm Guardian unit so I can have 3 Troops to fill a Battalion.
It's completely contrary to my theme I've used for nearly a decade, but that's the price I pay for CPs.

But since I have to take them, I use them either as screens (which are very necessary this edition) or backfield objective holders (also necessary). Heck, in my most recent game I put my 2 units of Rangers in reserves and actually forgot about them for the whole game.

So to reiterate, I recommend the OP do what I did and get over your preferrences and adapt. I had to.

-

OP should play AoS. Khorne Daemons.

So, Troops may not be sexy, but they do serve a valuable role beyond CP generation. Troops give you something you can park on objectives while your other, sexier units are laying waste to your enemies. What would you rather tie down to holding an objective? A 55pt Scout Squad or a 175pt Terminator Squad? You don't have to make a big investment in Troops to field a Battalion. Either field the minimum Troops choices, or take the CP hit, and have to waste valuable units sitting on objectives instead of having them off killing things.

While they're not exactly blowing a hole in the tournament meta, Tyranid Warriors seem to address a lot of these issues. Warriors feel more like Elites than Troops in my experience - they're big, tough, can't be taken down by a pot-shot from a bolter, and one-on-one they beat almost all Troops in the game.

Of course you're paying for the privilege and they're still only medium at range, but there is a huge difference in feel between four ten-man infantry units for almost any other faction and four three-man broods of Warriors, which is the rough price / effectiveness equivalent.

Karol wrote:

 Draco wrote:
Minimum cultist or scouts could be payment for command points.

You can also use allies for command points. If you like terminators you can take GK battalion with 3*terminator units and dreadknights with SM or DA outrider detachments.Terminators are not point efficient so cultist are better point sacrifice.

only paladins can run around in 3man squads. normal termintors have to run in 5 man squads. It would have been awesome if they could be run as 3s.


Knights and some halverins, DW seem like a good army for OP. A mix of DW and knights sounds even better, it could actually be an ok army to play with.

I wrote vaguely, meant 3 units of terminators (3*5)

Headlss wrote:
Idon't like troops. (Or tanks really)

But I don't like troops. For this discussion troops are anything thats pretty cheep, slow, not too tough and not really scary in either shooting or melee.

i guess at the end of the day are you not counting "troops" that are troop choices but do not fit your definition. I mean, most armies can put together some pretty strong combinations from their troop choices. Would you consider say, Blood Letters "troops"? Because Blood Letters are pretty typical rank and file daemons, but pound for pound they are one of the scariest units in the game when they drop in from reserves with an Icon of Blood and maul somebodies battle line.

Or what about Noise Marines? Generic Space Marines with upgraded small arms and a unique versatile heavy weapon. Drop Veterans of the Long War and Endless Cacophony strategems on them and suddenly they are blowing gaping holes out of your opponents army. Or for that matter, what about a squad of 40 cultists. They can use those same strategems and once per game can throw in a Tide of Traitors strategem to drop in wherever they are needed to blast something into oblivion.

Lots of armies can leverage an exceptional amount of killing power onto their troops. But those are still troops. What it sounds like you don't like are screening troops. Which are more disposable units designed to take up space and prevent your opponent from getting their most potent units into your important pieces. Units who are effectively chaff and exist to deflect your opponents attack and allowing your own heavy hitters to potentially get a clean shot. Here is the thing. Playing with chaff and screens makes it much easier to win games. Chaff wins games, and 40K has become very much about effective use of chaff at high levels of play.

Technically yes you can just play with detachments that have no troops, but the current rule set will heavily punish you if you don't.

Thanks for the answers. I particularly apreacted the guy with 9 tank guard list. Thats what I want to run, but with bikes and walkers.

I can run troops I have a dark elf army that I run as a double battalion plus spear head, Kablites fire base, wytches and bikes to tie them up and then Grotesques and Talos. The troops do great, I am happy to have them in that list. But I want to build a list where I leave them at home.

Answers that work: Grey knight terminators. Noise Marines. Knights. Are gene stealers troops? Tyrind warriors.

Maybe Harliquins, but they get don't get walkers.
Blood letters don't count becuase they are too fragile and too slow.

If this is for your 'fun' side-army then just have at 'er and build a force without a Battalion.

Genestealers are Troops in a Tyranid Detachment, Elites in a Genestealer Cult Detachment.

Just food for thought:

Have you considered a CSM army with the additional FW walkers,?
Decimators are elites, and not to bad , granted also not too good but they are ok.
Hellbrutes are good atm.
Daemonprinces and other great HQ's.
(cheap warpsmiths for keeping your walkers around)
Terminators, and cult elitemarines are often tough nuts to crack. (plaguemarines in an Alphalegion Detachment are particulary nasty for 16ppm).

Kyborgs/ mutilators, would also kinda fit the bill.
You could fill 3 Vanguard Detachments and so would still get 6 cp.

I imagine you could do something similar with normal marines.
Is it competitive, ehhhhhhhh.

Not sure if it's been suggested yet so I'll suggest it anyway. If you need troops, but don't like troops, then use an army that hides it's troops in open topped transports.
They still shoot, they still fill out detachments, but you don't have to put them on the board. You just have a vehicle there instead, with the guys "inside".

Everything he posts just screams to me "Chaos of some variation".

Bharring wrote:
Everything he posts just screams to me "Chaos of some variation".

I like Slaanesh. Nurgle is gross. Khorn is ok, but there are already a bunch of khorn players.

My dream army would be 60 seekers, 3 soul grinders. Fiends, hearlds, Keepers and deamon princes as needed.

Most of your posts explicitly reference Chaos units you want to play with.

Play with them.

You might be CP starved. It's up to you whether you add Troops to get those tasty, tasty CP or not.

If you're not looking for a tourny army, play what you like. Which *really* feels like demons.

That said, Nids might do some fun things for you, too.

Headlss wrote:

Bharring wrote:
Everything he posts just screams to me "Chaos of some variation".

I like Slaanesh. Nurgle is gross. Khorn is ok, but there are already a bunch of khorn players.

My dream army would be 60 seekers, 3 soul grinders. Fiends, hearlds, Keepers and deamon princes as needed.

Then do that.

If you like walkers? You can do all Imperial dreadnoughts. Me I love dreads. Between codex SM, BA, SW & the Forge World index I put 15 assorted dreads on the table one game.... I assume you can do something similar with the CSM codex + FW index.

But if your dream army is a hoard of Slaanesh demon things? Then I'd recommend starting that. Afterall, your going to spend $, so you might as well skip directly to spending it on what you really want.

Bharring wrote:
Most of your posts explicitly reference Chaos units you want to play with.

Play with them.

You might be CP starved. It's up to you whether you add Troops to get those tasty, tasty CP or not.

If you're not looking for a tourny army, play what you like. Which *really* feels like demons.

That said, Nids might do some fun things for you, too.

I reference the units I know, which are eldar, nids and deamons. If I could do a similar thing with ogryn, sentinals and rough riders that would be cool too. Thats kind of what I was asking about.

Slaanesh Daemons require less CP than Khorne does as they don't rely so heavily on Banner stratagems and DotW, they rely on support instead.

If you stay Battle-Forged you can probably organize your wishlist in a way that gives you six CP, or seven if your opponent doesn't care how many Detachments you have, which isn't great but which will probably suffice in most casual-ish metas.

Plus, with six CP She Who Thirsts will surely smile upon you.

Genestealers are indeed Troops. They are also fast, aggressive, and hit like a sock full of bricks.

Warriors, as mentioned above, are also Troops that dont feel like Troops. They are durable (compared to similar units), and can be kitted out as nasty melee or solid shooting.

Both units can be used as solid cores for an army, or as the required slot fillers for a battalion. As synapse units that can take a long range gun, Warriors work well with big monster builds.

Headlss wrote:

Bharring wrote:
Most of your posts explicitly reference Chaos units you want to play with.

Play with them.

You might be CP starved. It's up to you whether you add Troops to get those tasty, tasty CP or not.

If you're not looking for a tourny army, play what you like. Which *really* feels like demons.

That said, Nids might do some fun things for you, too.

I reference the units I know, which are eldar, nids and deamons. If I could do a similar thing with ogryn, sentinals and rough riders that would be cool too. Thats kind of what I was asking about.

Well yes ogryns and sentinels do work, rough riders do work.
You could field 6 units of imperial ogryns, 3 sentinels.

What do you think about chimeras, because if you like them, run some Salamander scout tanks.

Headlss wrote:
I like Slaanesh. Nurgle is gross. Khorn is ok, but there are already a bunch of khorn players.

My dream army would be 60 seekers, 3 soul grinders. Fiends, hearlds, Keepers and deamon princes as needed.

Might I suggest picking up the box set of Wrath and Rapture? It has 3 fiends, 5 seekers, 10 daemonettes and, a herald of slaanesh. It also comes with a decent mix of Khorne that you could keep for yourself or trade/sell to someone else. It's a great value. Then pick up a couple of the Start Collecting Slaanesh sets since they come with 10 daemonettes, 5 seekers and, a chariot. If you buy the big box and 2 starters you've got all the troops you need plus 15 seekers, 3 fiends, 1 herald and, 2 chariots all for a decent price and you still have those Khorne figures for what ever you plan to do in the future.

If you buy the Slaanesh SC! box I would not advise that you build an Exalted Chariot.

Instead, buy another 120x75mm base and build either two Seeker Chariots or Hellflayers, or one of each.

Lack of biker troops killed my whole SM army. I sold them all...

Then a few months later, I got into killteam and bought some scouts and intercessors.

D'oh!

Headlss wrote:
Idon't like troops. (Or tanks really)

I like Bikes and walkers. Calvary and beasts are Awesomesauce. Deamons and Carnifexs are cool. Heavy weapons platforms are alright, even terminators are cool.

But I don't like troops. For this discussion troops are anything thats pretty cheep, slow, not too tough and not really scary in either shooting or melee.

So how do I avoid them? Is there anyone that can take something like bikes or warwalkers as a troop choice?

I know I don't have to take a batalion detachment but that is the best way to get Command points, and i like command points, ad you might guess I'm a toys before boys kind of guy.

Cavalry.
Calvary.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Headlss wrote:

Bharring wrote:
Most of your posts explicitly reference Chaos units you want to play with.

Play with them.

You might be CP starved. It's up to you whether you add Troops to get those tasty, tasty CP or not.

If you're not looking for a tourny army, play what you like. Which *really* feels like demons.

That said, Nids might do some fun things for you, too.

I reference the units I know, which are eldar, nids and deamons. If I could do a similar thing with ogryn, sentinals and rough riders that would be cool too. Thats kind of what I was asking about.

Well yes ogryns and sentinels do work, rough riders do work.
You could field 6 units of imperial ogryns, 3 sentinels.

What do you think about chimeras, because if you like them, run some Salamander scout tanks.

Scout tanks sound fun. Tell me more.

Fortunately for you, and unfortunately for me, GW has adopted the pratice of -Regardless of how little sense it makes, if you own the models for it, it will be a legal army.
In open they don't even have to be from the same Codex! A Tyranid Hive Tyrant, a Warhound Titan, a Bloodthirster, and a Falcon Gravtank are a completely legal list - Using Aux Support detachments.

This edition is literally designed from the ground up as the 'If we sell it in a kit, you can put it on a table and play with it' edition.

So as many posters have said - Litterally buy the models you want - And it will be a legal army.

 DeffDred wrote:
OP should play AoS. Khorne Daemons.

Yep, and just take ten Bloodthirsters.

Grey Knights use Terminators as a troop option.
Admech uses Khaderons as troops.
Nids can use Warriors as troops.

I'm sure there are a few other options.