locarno24 wrote:BrianDavion wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:Spetulhu wrote:
Ironbeer wrote:Also, I read that the space marines and the imperial guard never fight together. Why is that? Are they both not fighting for the same thing - the Emperor?
It's not that they don't fight together, it's the fact that Imperial doctrine and tradition makes it illegal (in most cases) for a commander from one organisation to give orders to personnel from another. The Space Marines are outside the normal chain of command, but they also have about zero legal authority to tell anyone else what to do. That's the result of changes to the
IoM military after the Horus Heresy, changes meant to make it much harder for a single man to collect a galaxy-shaking force ever again.
That said, a Space Marine Sergeant giving a few suggestions to an
IG platoon as his squad sets up with them is perfectly acceptable. He's just not supposed to be commanding them directly. The "advice" of a Space Marine Captain will certainly be well received and probably mostly acted on by some
IG line colonel, and even Planetary Governors will lend an ear to what a Chapter Master has to say about helping to defend their world. As long as the forms are obeyed, of course.
The Marines, Custodes and Sisters of Battle are all considered figures of reverence by most imperial citizens and soldiers, so one of them - especially a Marine or Cusodes giving an order is unlikely to be refused. All three are not above acting violently should their authority be challenged
that reverance is a good point as well, If a chapter master "suggests" that the local guard commander takes an action, he's proably going to do it, especially if it's the chapter master of a partiuclarly celebrated chapter. If someone like Calgar, Dante or Logan shows up and tells the guard commander "I need you to do X" the guard WILL do X.
It's a holdover from the heresy. During the big civil war, traitor legion marines had battlefleets and army regiments under their command following them around. Most of the reforms following the heresy (like the codex astartes, second founding and formation of the astra militarum) boiled down to "lets not do that again..."
The army was spun off as a seperate entity which the marines can't formally command, the navy as a third seperate entity (also meaning rebel guard regiments don't have their own interstellar transport) whilst the marines get 'planetary assault specialist' ships which are good but would lose pound-for-pound against 'proper' battlefleet warships with lances, nova cannons and heavier cruiser-class vessels.
However, as noted, there are exceptions. Taking the ultramarines as an example, a space marine cannot give orders to guardsmen. Marneus Calgar specifically, however, is both Chapter Master of the Ultramarines and
also Lord Macragge - the latter persona is a planetary governor (actually a Lord Sector) and an Administratum official, who holds direct command over the Ultramar PDF and can legally order around guard units attached to support them (like the Baneblade Pride of Hera).
One assumes his various legal personas aren't on speaking terms with one another.
The first part was the intention and ideal - by the "current day" its all changed and
RG both knows it and can;t afford to change it.
The Astartes have some of the most potent fleet asests in the Imperium, coupled with superior tactical ability and potent boarding power, the Navy have complained about it but nothing has happened.
The Church has spent 10,000 years making sure that every good imperial citizen (and member of the guard) "knows" that the Astartes are the semi-divine children of God. If they ask you do something - how could you refuse His instrument. (same with the Custodes - but even more so and to some extent the Sisters of Battle).
It would be the same as a devout catholic soldier being told to do something by an incarnate Angel - would they refuse?
Finally out of universe
GW keep adding new equipment to the Marines that they are not supposed to have - superheavies, air support, etc.....
