Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Knightofday33 wrote:
Hi all, I’m a new blood angels player and just want to share my thoughts so far and see what others think. I read the recent “marine fix” thread and I agree with something’s. Mostly I’m of the opinion the base line space marine should have 2 wounds. I’m just going to make a list of things that concern me about the game at large and see what the public’s thought are?

1. Is this game supposed to be balanced? If I didn’t do blood angels I was going to do grey knights so I’m actually kind of thankful.

2. What’s up with overwatch? If I’m going to charge you get some shots for me running at you, ok fine. With 1 wound models and things that auto hit this can get bad in some cases or some good rolls and I lose half my unit. But then units that got into close combat can just walk away? Without the unit who they are in close combat getting any attacks? And their friends just shoot the crap out of you?

3. Living on a 9” charge, disappearing black rage and red thirst. I’m forced to go big or go off the table turn 2. If I can’t make a charge it’s over. If you don’t run away from my unit and fight me into the next turn I lose the black rage, and the red thirst for not charging or getting changed. Meanwhile time after time I’m getting deep striked by units that have some crazy killer gun that massacres me. So my opponent doesn’t even have to charge to kill me.

I’ve got a few more issues but in closing what I’ve seen so far leads me to believe I mostly just have a much smaller margin of error then other armies. It just seems like the guys I’m going against have more reliable tactics then me. Any thoughts?

1. It's supposed to be. Still getting there.

2. Honestly, for most armies Overwatch isn't that big a deal. It can either be negated or won't do enough damage to matter. Take the Angel's Wing relic on one of your Captains and have him charge first. The enemy is not allowed to Overwatch him due to a special power of the relic. Once he ties up the enemy in combat, the rest of the units can jump in risk free. Also, see the other posts in here on trapping units in combat. Part of the strategy of the game is making it so they cannot retreat.

3. Your Codex, specifically, has tools to mitigate that 9" problem. Check out the stratagem Descent of Angels.

Punching with power armor guys hasn't been this hard since 2nd. Some of the advice here is good, some is terrible. Most of the analysis is fine.

Drop in on the ba strat thread.

"2. What’s up with overwatch? If I’m going to charge you get some shots for me running at you, ok fine. With 1 wound models and things that auto hit this can get bad in some cases or some good rolls and I lose half my unit. But then units that got into close combat can just walk away? Without the unit who they are in close combat getting any attacks? And their friends just shoot the crap out of you? "
Sometimes dice just hate you.

I had a 5-man ASM squad charge a 5-man Tac squad last edition, to tie up their Plasma Cannon. Lost all 5 without killing a single Tac in a single round of CC. Another time, I had a 5-man ASM squad wipe a 10-man CSM squad.

On CC, more generally, don't go all-in on being a CC army (at least with BA). There are a few armies in the game that can go all-in as CC, but BA is not one of them. You can still use CC somewhat, but also bring shooty units. And remember, being a CC unit isn't about being strong enough to kick anyone's ass; it's about being strong enough to kick the ass of what's in front of them.

I've charged and won with *Fire Warriors*, Dire Avengers, and more. It can really throw the opponent off. Remember that BA Tacs are likely to win in CC vs basic Marines of almost any other flavor. But not against most actual CC units.

Also, ASM and similar are *bully* units, not front line fighters. Don't march them up the field like a phalanx or charge them forward like rabid dogs. They'll lose to actual front line fighter units. Use them to tie up backfield things or vehicles. Or to help your other units out in CC.

Finally, a lot of Marine CC strength comes from HQs, with an added note that Sarges can do half-decent damage too. A Captain behind a Tac Marine squad is a reasonable (but not great) CC threat, even though the Tac Marine squad isn't a CC unit.

Remember these things, and you can make use of CC in your games quite often.

However, Marines are in a bad place. Don't expect to win major tournaments with BA, at least right now. And Primaris looks to be replacing much of the line. As a book, BA are fine - they're about middle-of-the-pack, maybe a little low. But some units are in a bad place - Tac Marines and Assault Marines especially.

First off - Welcome to the ranks for the Blood Angels, brother!

I too struggle with playing what I think is an awesome army, but is definitely hard to play than some. I'm currently pretty decent in the local meta, but get knocked to the bottom tiers every tournement I go to (although thats getting better as I improve).

Here are a couple notes (highs and lows):


LOW - your units are expensive, and very squishy. Be rutheless in making sure each unit is worth the points you are bringing. (I love Death Company, but I've reduced their squad size to make room for things that will last more than one turn).
HIGH - You hit like a Mother-effin' TRUCK when you get into close combat. Honestly only Khorne and a handful of characters are more deadly in CC than BA when they do it right. The hard part is doing it RIGHT. Melee is incredibly powerful in 8th, but it is very finicky and requires a lot of practice. I've been doing this almost a year, and I'm just starting to get a handle on it.

RECOMENDATIONs:
1) Never leave home without a Librarian Dreadought (Quickening and Wings of Sanguinious for phychic Powers). He has 8 wounds, yet is still a character. He FLIES and has an extra 12" move in the physic, so he can move across the table fast. He had a Str8, AP-4 Dmg 3 weapon (if you bring the warlord trait the weapon is Dmg 4), and with Quickening and the Red Rampage Strat he can have up to 9 attacks. Hitting on 2+, wounding on +2, most things don't have an armor save against him, and he can dish out 24 points of dmg in a turn. I've killed knights with that.

2) Smash Captains are great, but don't neglect your character aura buffs. I get almost as much milage out of re-rolling 1's as I do his Thunder Hammer. I generally set him up in the backfield with a gunline to give them the re-roll, then use descent of angels strat to have him join the deepstrike if necessary. Sometimes I leave him in the backfield to defend the whole time. Sanguinary Priest are also great for this. They can sit in the backline and heal your shooting units, then jump forward with the deepstrikers to add +1 Str to your melee - with this aura buff and the Blood Angles chapter tactic, you are almost always going to be wounding on 2+ if you do it right.

3) Melee is great, but horde screens are king right now, so always bring enough Dakka to deal with them so your deepstrikers can get to the meat. I bring Baal Predators, and a lot of Agressors and Inceptors. A 5-man squad of either will delete a 10-unit T3 squad in a single round of shooting. I also bring some Tri-Las predators and a tech marine. These deal a lot of damage, but also work as a great bullet magnet, allwoing other units to survive longer. And with a tech marine they can last a lot longer than expected.

4) I have very few regular marines in my list. Scouts and DC, plus some Company Vets if points allow. The rest are all Primaris. 2 Wounds, and T5 on a lot of them, means they survive in combat a lot longer, and can dish out a lot more pain. Right now I run 5-man Agressors, 5-man Inceptors, some Intercessors, and I'm looking hard at what the new Vanguard codex will bring to the table (Suppressors for eliminating overwatch!).

5) The Hardest part - BA are CP hogs. You have to bring enough CP to the party, or you will fade out in the stretch (much like knights, who are not nearly as scary when they don't have all those high-powered strategems). I currently run 2 battalions, and I've seriously considered bringing a Loyal 32, even though my narrative heart breaks thinking about it. But having 14 CP versus 9 CP can often be the difference in winning and losing.


To end, Blood Angels are awesome, and a lot of fun to play. They can be tricky, and definitely don't have all the advantages more priviliged codices do, but don't let that stop you from having a good time.


-- Wargboyz

Units can fall back from CQC because it is really good. Mastery of the movement elements of the close combat phase can help a player stand considerably above his/her immediate peers.

Note the fact that you can consolidate and pile in to other units, and that you don't have to pile in directly towards the enemy, so long as you eventually end up closer.

In addition, units engaged in melee are pretty much entirely mission-kill the target unit, while shooting degrades it but leave it functional. You can leverage this well to get a lot of value out of your units, even if they don't wind up straight killing stuff.

Overwatch is almost entirely non-threatening, but you should be aware of the few units that are or have a trick to make them dangerous.


Some advice:
If you don't want units to fall back, take a model hostage during your consolidate move by placing 3-4 models around it evenly. Unless it flies or routs, you'll be able to prevent the fall-back, since it can't move through your guys.

Second, watch your positions when you charge and pile in, and be careful which models your guys end up next to. You want to be able to pile in and consolidate as far forward as possible. You can threaten a huge area if you know what you're doing and they don't, and shut down a significant portion of their army.


Don't entirely eschew shooting, though.

I think you're in the minority on that one. I can't characterize melee, esp ba melee, as anything other than poor.

BA can use every melee trick and still far very short: out of models by turn 5.

Thanks for all the input. I’ve tried some off the suggestions, and I’ll certainly try the others I haven’t. I know it’s an up hill battle, and I’m ok with that. I think we can all agree we don’t want to the game turn into people playing only a few different armies in a few different lists.

As i said, come over to ba tactics thread.