Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What I'm wondering about...

Since it's a Paradox game, how much DLC do they have planned? This sort of game doesn't ordinarily get *that* much DLC. But a Paradox game without AT LEAST ten or so DLC releases over the course of its life would be horribly out of character for the company.

Eumerin wrote:
What I'm wondering about...

Since it's a Paradox game, how much DLC do they have planned? This sort of game doesn't ordinarily get *that* much DLC. But a Paradox game without AT LEAST ten or so DLC releases over the course of its life would be horribly out of character for the company.

Well, there's a ton of pre-order bonuses, and Season Pass = Story Pack 1, Story Pack 2 and Expansion as listed on the Steam page. I'm sure we'll learn more in the next year on the contents.

Eumerin wrote:
What I'm wondering about...

Since it's a Paradox game, how much DLC do they have planned? This sort of game doesn't ordinarily get *that* much DLC. But a Paradox game without AT LEAST ten or so DLC releases over the course of its life would be horribly out of character for the company.

Well, weirdly enough, this is a paradox published game with an outside developer so slightly different rules apply.

But as Nels says, there's already a lot, and skins and outfits are all over the preorder bonuses, so that could get bad.

The weird bit is the developer is going to add more -Clans- as DLC over time (supposedly for free). Which means playing through the game again, unless there is hinky multiplayer stuff too.

But it raises questions about who is not available at launch and when they'll arrive. Given how core clan is to character identity (though you also won't start with one in this game), I find it very very odd to do things this way for a single player game.

Voss wrote:

Eumerin wrote:
What I'm wondering about...

Since it's a Paradox game, how much DLC do they have planned? This sort of game doesn't ordinarily get *that* much DLC. But a Paradox game without AT LEAST ten or so DLC releases over the course of its life would be horribly out of character for the company.

Well, weirdly enough, this is a paradox published game with an outside developer so slightly different rules apply.

IIRC, Surviving Mars is by a different developer, as well (the same one that makes Tropico). That doesn't appear to have stopped the inevitable steam-roll of DLC (though it's a bit too early to be sure).

Eumerin wrote:

Voss wrote:

Eumerin wrote:
What I'm wondering about...

Since it's a Paradox game, how much DLC do they have planned? This sort of game doesn't ordinarily get *that* much DLC. But a Paradox game without AT LEAST ten or so DLC releases over the course of its life would be horribly out of character for the company.

Well, weirdly enough, this is a paradox published game with an outside developer so slightly different rules apply.

IIRC, Surviving Mars is by a different developer, as well (the same one that makes Tropico). That doesn't appear to have stopped the inevitable steam-roll of DLC (though it's a bit too early to be sure).

Their DLC kind of choked, actually. They promised 2 dlc packs and 2 expansion packs, and I think they've delivered on one of each over the course of a year. Maybe both DLC packs, its a little hard to tell what 'counts.' Marsvision Contest maybe does. Maybe not.
The other things on SM's DLC list are deluxe version bonuses and a free DLC.

It certainly isn't the laundry list that accompanies CK2 or EUIV, which have 70 and 61 pieces of DLC listed respectively, though that includes units, songs and bad fanfics as well as expansions and 'immersion packs' (local adjustments for russia, iberia, britain).

Battletech will probably have 3 (flashpoint which was blah, urban warfare which might be good and something as yet unnamed), Age of Wonders 3 had 3. Tyranny basically had 3 if you don't count the soundtrack or the deluxe edition 'upgrade' (or the free something they gave out on anniversary, I've no idea if there is anything meaningful there)

Age of Wonders in Space looks like its gearing up for more, however. Cosmetic packs, scenario planets plus a season pass.

----
So Bloodlines is already kicking off at the point of most of their partnered games. (well, kind of partnered. HBS, who produced battletech, is now a paradox property)

But the preorder bonuses also include weapon skins and outfits,
the deluxe edition includes outfits, a table and a stop sign 'item.'
and the premium edition includes the season pass- 2 'story packs' and an expansion.

I can easily imagine more outfits, weapon skins and furniture as DLC.

once you cut away the alternate appearances or music the paradox DLC gets a lot thinner, lol.

I wonder, nay hope, that we're getting the same kind of licensed music as the first game, as dated as it is now.

 BrookM wrote:
I wonder, nay hope, that we're getting the same kind of licensed music as the first game, as dated as it is now.

Hey, i'm doing a Gangrel run at the mo with the clan pack mod installed and i can head bang just as well to it now as back in 2004. Although damn i'd forgotten about how quality the voice "acting" was in that mod.

 BrookM wrote:
I wonder, nay hope, that we're getting the same kind of licensed music as the first game, as dated as it is now.

I think the interview video they did pretty strongly implied we won't be, with the "grunge is past-Seattle" thing. Hopefully they at least avoid all the autotuned pish that seems to be popular at the moment.

First faction revealed :

https://www.bloodlines2.com/en/the-pioneers

‘The Pioneers’

”WE MADE THIS CITY AND WE WILL NEVER LET ANYONE FORGET THAT.”

- Lou Grand

PAST GLORIES

While Seattle is a young city, the vampires of The Pioneers were among the first to settle here and rule. Led by Lou Grand, the longest-reigning Prince of the area, they have seen control slip away over the years and are increasingly unhappy with the amount of outsiders that have come in and carved out territory.

OLD MONEY

There’s a lot of wealth in ruling a city for more than a century. The money of the Pioneers would earn a lot of influence almost anywhere in the world. In the modern boomtown of Seattle, though, all it seems to afford is a more comfortable slide into irrelevance.

While they have dreams of once more ruling the city, they have since been forced to accept the rules of another. In exchange, they have been allowed to "save face" by keeping control over some minor parts of the city.

THE INSIDER’S CLUB

A collection of individuals from different clans, unified by their idealistic and romantic notion of Seattle as the last frontier - The Pioneers held Seattle for the biggest part of the city’s existence. Having lost so much in the last twenty years, they have become quite skeptical of the changing world, including any fledgling looking to join.

The vampires in Lou’s group include loggers, fishermen, bootleggers, old money families, musicians and artists, and many other long-time Puget Sound inhabitants - and they fight tooth and nail to preserve whatever remains of their old world - and of one another.

That is a seriously weird mix of backgrounds for the 'moneyed elite' faction. Fisherman, musicians and... just 'Old money.'
About the only one that makes sense is lumber barons (assuming that's what they mean and not literally 'loggers')

Plus bootleggers, who wouldn't have been particularly relevant at the city's founding or recently, so... I don't even know what that's about.


And while i get where they were going with the faction name (as in the original settlement pioneers), thematically it jars with what amounts to the privleged rich faction (which still has little reason to include fishermen and artists, which tend to be disposable non-people to the elites)

I got the sense that it's less old money like WASPs and more old monely like "the good ol'boys," who has like one rich guy and then all his poorer and less poor cronies who are all against them outsiders coming into the community and stealing from them cause they were there "first." All while completely in denial that it isn't year XXXX anymore and they're not that special anymore.

Which is admittedly an atypical stereotype for a upscale west coast city like Seattle, but from first hand experience I know that isn't a dynamic that only exists in the rural south.

Yes, but vampires are weird so... anachronism is pretty normal for them.

 LordofHats wrote:
I got the sense that it's less old money like WASPs and more old monely like "the good ol'boys," who has like one rich guy and then all his poorer and less poor cronies who are all against them outsiders coming into the community and stealing from them cause they were there "first." All while completely in denial that it isn't year XXXX anymore and they're not that special anymore.

Which is admittedly an atypical stereotype for a upscale west coast city like Seattle, but from first hand experience I know that isn't a dynamic that only exists in the rural south.

Actually that would have made more sense to me. A prince and his cronies are one of the default setups for Vampire after all, and they're usually elders, so in American cities... yeah, you get someone involved in the founding more often than not- or at least reasonably often.

Its the sheer diversity of listed backgrounds, groups that frankly don't interact (artists and fishermen?), and social structures of a century+ back would have made them even less likely to work together and form a cooperative group.


The basic setup is sound- the lumber barons and dock-owners (not loggers and fishermen) of old Seattle pushed out by tech investors, medical companies or whatever. That can easily make sense. Its just they went a step further and went for a bunch of people that wouldn't have money lumped in with people who's only claim is 'old money'- which doesn't work much either. Prince Lout Grand would had to have something to offer and a real form of power (some group he had influence with) back in the 19th century, and little reason to discard it. It isn't like he's a third or fourth generation professional heir.

You know, the idea is strange, but it makes a certain amount of sense. Imagine a vampire pioneer- sure they're sucking blood, but they're also logging, fishing, or whatever else is needed to get by- by night, which is kind of weird, but people are so spread out no one would notice. The town starts growing, and the vampire starts parlaying that accumulated wealth into more comfortable positions- now he has henchmen to fish for him, controls a wharf and a fleet of ships, sits on a city council or whatnot.

Prohibition hits, and suddenly you're a bootlegger because you've built stills, and know everybody who's producing and can distribute it.

If you're holding on to the good old days, and only turning people who want the 'real' tm Seattle, then you may well end up with a blue collar elite group. The artist and musicians also seem out of place- those are the most avant garde, forward thinking jagweeds out there- when they're modern. What if these musicians are a way of preserving the old city? They aren't rappers and rockers, they're the bluegrass band that played twice a month on Sundays, or that incredibly talented spoon player. The guy that painted the town murals, who you kept around to make more of the same style.

My interpretation of their professions was that they are all jobs where it would be an easy task to get rid of bodies, barring the artist/musicians.

 nels1031 wrote:
My interpretation of their professions was that they are all jobs where it would be an easy task to get rid of bodies, barring the artist/musicians.

Loggers?

Besides, VtM vampires don't need to kill anyone to feed. Actually doing so is a very dumb strategy that does little but threaten the Masquerade.

People have done really boring statistics on what it would mean if the various canon estimates of Vampire populations in the WW games were killing people even a few times a week each. It would look like a horrendous epidemic that would attract an absurd amount of attention from news outlets, medical professionals and governments. And be completely unsustainable to boot.

2nd Faction: The Camarilla

“CONTRARY TO WHAT YOU MIGHT THINK, I ENJOY HAVING ENEMIES. IT MAKES ME... CAREFUL - KEEPS ME CREATIVE. THERE'S NOT MUCH OF A FUTURE FOR COMPLACENT RULERS.”

- Alec Cross

THE LONG GAME

After 20 years at the top, every member of Cross’ faction is still very aware of being the city’s biggest target. While Cross knows that not every vampire in the city accepts the Camarilla, he has given them just enough power to not have to worry about them organizing and moving against him. Stability, prosperity, and the Masquerade have been the key components of his policy.

THE IVORY TOWER

Very few cities boast a vampire elite as wealthy as Seattle. In these refined circles, your true worth shows in how much control your money has bought you. Here at the top, a comfortable existence - not having to worry about access to blood and having to hunt - is all but guaranteed.

Amongst the Camarilla kindred loyal to Cross you’ll find CEOs, software moguls, bankers, venture capitalists, politicians and other members of the business elite.

3rd Faction: The Baron

“YOU’RE IN THE GAME NOW SON. EVER SINCE THE NIGHT YOU GOT BIT. THAT’S JUST HOW IT IS NOW.”

- Josephine, lieutenant of the Baron

OFF THE GRID

It’s hard to know just how many vampires swear allegiance to The Baron of Aurora. In parts, that’s because very few of Seattle’s Kindred have actually met him. Acting through his lieutenants, he has taken in the city’s destitute, defiant and desperate, turning them into a ruthlessly disciplined force with hands in every shady deal.

Where a less prudent man might turn such capital into a bid for Princedom, he has so far been content to stay in the back-alleys of his turf, hoard favors, and brutally defend his business interests.

NECESSARY EVIL

Nobody likes the Baron and his people - until they need something done or procured quietly and quickly. Someone will play this part, in any city. Many of Seattle’s powerful tell themselves that it’s just as well to further indebt yourself to the Devil you know.


No matter who you are, no matter what you did, no matter who you’re running from; the Baron has a job for you. Promotion and power comes quickly in his organization - if you can stomach the work.

KINGPIN

The Baron has no illusions about his own security: While seemingly unassailable now, his strength will remain only as long as he stays ahead of all competitors. If he ever shows weakness or becomes unreliable, his whole operation is going to fall, beginning with him.

Didn't this go Epic? Is anyone really going to 1st day purchase this? Every triple A online game that has come out in the last 2 years has been a buggy broken mess day 1, and needed at least 4 months and a "road map".

Not yet. And with paradox as the publisher it's unlikely to go with Epic- they're pretty tied to steam while pushing their own launcher.


This isn't a Triple A game. At all. This is a small studio and niche product, just like the first one. Paradox has pushed hard to try to appear as a rising star in game publishing, but the studios they sign on (and often subsequently buy out) are small outfits.


As for day one purchase, I'm still not sold on buying it at all.
I still regard the first one as a way overrated game- a bad shooter with a tepid progression system, and a few RPG elements that disappear down the sewer at the end of the second act.

This one has the possibility of being even worse, though possibly a better shooter. Other than the name Vampire (which... I find pretty sullied these days), I've yet to see much in the game beyond a recolored dishonored, and I'm not sure the devs are up to the required level design and animation work,


It might end up a decent game, but I'm not expecting more than passable.

Voss wrote:

As for day one purchase, I'm still not sold on buying it at all.

Me neither, but I'm still pretty excited for it. The first game had many problems but there was something there that was close to greatness.

I remember hearing that this went Epic, but I've since heard that it's on Steam. So if there was a decision to go Epic exclusive, then apparently they changed their minds afterwards.

It was never exclusive, but it is on the Epic store (and Steam, GoG and the 'Paradox store').

I believe it was yanked off the Epic store for a time because it got caught up in that weird sale that somehow applied to new and preorder titles and Paradox/Hardhat said 'Yeah, no.'

that was it! It was yanked after Epic F'd up the day one sale. Lulz.

As for day one purchase, I will give my 3rd @$@#% to buy a day one copy of Cyberpunk. Talk about treating the customer with dignity.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
that was it! It was yanked after Epic F'd up the day one sale. Lulz.

As for day one purchase, I will give my 3rd @$@#% to buy a day one copy of Cyberpunk. Talk about treating the customer with dignity.

Because censoring their game because of crybullies is treating the customer with dignity?

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Because censoring their game because of crybullies is treating the customer with dignity?

Cry cry cry elsewhere and don't get the thread locked with your politics.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
that was it! It was yanked after Epic F'd up the day one sale. Lulz.

As for day one purchase, I will give my 3rd @$@#% to buy a day one copy of Cyberpunk. Talk about treating the customer with dignity.

Because censoring their game because of crybullies is treating the customer with dignity?

I meant more about how they have a completely DRM free service, and GoG routinely gives you 100% of their product, without paywalling their stuff. Witcher 1-3, Money back guarantee, fair price rules, etc. Just all around for the gamer company.

The Newcomers:

OUTCASTS

The Tremere have been historically kept out of Seattle - until Prince Cross suddenly allowed them access to the University District territory. Nobody seems to know quite what led the warlocks to make the journey from Europe to the far edge of America. Given the Camarilla's generosity, it's likely they paid a high price to enter the city. What that price was, no one's quite sure.

THE PYRAMID

The Faction’s charismatic leader, “Professor” Viktor Goga offers any vampire who would join him safe access to blood in one of the city’s richest hunting grounds, a spot in a rapidly progressing organization - and a promise of something greater. Those with talent can rise to the top quickly.

Already, the Baron views Goga’s operation as his most dangerous competition. Though conflict is on the horizon, the Newcomers' star keeps rising. Alluring, confident, visionary; they offer opportunity and risk in equal measure.

"I REALIZE THAT THERE ARE MANY IN SEATTLE WHO WILL DISPARAGE YOU FROM ASSOCIATING WITH US. WE'RE A THREAT TO THEIR STABILITY - THE INEVITABLE PRESSURE THAT CHANGES THE WAY THE CITY'S BLOOD FLOWS."

- Elif Parmak, right hand of Viktor Goga

ACADEMICS

It’s said that the Tremere clan knows more about the true potential of Kindred blood than any other. Founded by blood mages, recruiting from and hunting in the University, the Newcomers are easily Seattle’s most learned Kindred faction. Lately their ranks have swollen with occultists, scholars, college students, runaways, and more than a few defectors from the other factions.

Just 1 more faction reveal and then hopefully we get more gameplay features and such

Ooo. Bad fanfic alert. Tremere as mysterious, manipulative outsiders rather than integral day to day members of the Camarilla. Yes, they have agenda(s). But not to the point that princes ban them from cities, especially young cities.


That last bit too (lately they're ranks have swollen with recruits from 5 different groups!?).... How many bloody vampires are going to be in this town? There is a pretty small ratio of how many vampires a city can support. Heavy recruiting in a short period isn't something that happens outside the Sabbat.

Most places seeing multiple new vampires in a year is bizarre. Defectors are fine (but weird in general, since tremere don't generally take outsiders in) but if they're getting even one from each of the other groups on regular basis, something hinky is going on. Vampire pop growth is one of major areas that's restricted by law and tradition.

The Unseen.

Last faction revealed

“THERE IS ALWAYS TIME.”

- The Council of Three

UNNOTICED

Seattle has been a city of drifters, transients and homeless for almost as long as it has existed. By and large, people just look the other way. The Unseen walk among these unfortunates, hidden in plain sight to vampire and human alike.

For more than a century, the Unseen have been led by the Council of Three - or "The Speakers" to the Nosferatu. They helped their people survive among the homeless and loners of the city. While the rest of Seattle’s vampires took pains to ignore them, these Unseen grew into a faction, began trading secrets… And grudges.

INFORMATION BROKERS

Today, the Council has left much of the Nosferatu’s operation to younger vampires more adept at gathering intel in modern nights. Where the Unseen used to be composed of thieves, frauds and homeless, they now also include journalists, engineers and hackers.

The Unseen have been here for a long time, and they see everything. They know what you did, why you’re trying to hide it - and who’ll pay to find out. The group would be a potent ally to the vampires of any other of Seattle’s factions - if they can be found.

TIGHT-KNIT

No other faction of vampires in Seattle looks out for their own like the Nosferatu. What else can you do, if nobody else will even look at you?

For as long as there has been a Seattle, there have been some that didn’t suit the Pioneers’ vision of a place made of art as much as brick, glass and iron. The misshapen members of clan Nosferatu never had a chance to fit in. They were encouraged to stay out of sight: In the outskirts, the shadows and - as the city grew - its Underground.