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Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




I don't. I got nothing. Fortunately, I (and my regular opponents) tend to prefer old school, and small....
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




Ice_can wrote:
dkoz wrote:
So how exactly does the smash cpt work? I get you drop him in and get him to the knight then you need his 3++ to work for the overwatch. However he only gets 4 attacks w/3 damage for each hit but still the knight will just leave CC won't it?

He gets an additional attack from MoH, so 5 attacks hitting on 2 rerolls 1's wounding on 2's (champion of humanity)
Fight again for 3CP or in death for 2CP.


It's a lot more than that. He gets plus one attacked for being part of death company, plus one attack from the stratagem you can play when a character fights, plus one attack from a bloody Angel psychic power and you take the Angel's wing relic to let him reroll charges and ignore OverWatch. Then you use a stratagem to let him roll 3 d6 for his charge, which he will really roll all three dice if he fails.

if you really want extra credit, you take the warlord trait to give his weapon plus one damage so it's a flat 4 instead of a flat 3.

All told you're looking at about 7 attacks with re-roll one to hit, hitting on a 3 plus, wounding on a 3 plus due to the blood Angel chapter tactic and a flat for damaged for everyone that gets through. Even before he fights twice it's a good 12 damage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ice_can wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
...you just beat on the castellen in CC...


With Space Marines?

Yes might of heroes and thunderhammer or might of heroes on srike. And fight twice,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of course their is also the recious method of sniper scouts with Guilliman for that reroll for MW spam.


Right, now get that CC character into combat with the Castellan when Fly doesn't work in the charge phase. It's not easy at all

Against knights that's not a problem, if your complaint is that guardsmen are too good a screen, you have a point.
But that's why turn 1 you hammer them with as much firepower as you can.


Even against pure knights, you shouldn't be getting anywhere near him. Armigers can just as effectively push you out until you're looking at turn three or four

for every other allied faction, they're basically all capable of making a screen that will keep you from ever touching Castellan

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/04/20 21:31:29


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Audustum wrote:
Spoiler:
Ice_can wrote:
dkoz wrote:
So how exactly does the smash cpt work? I get you drop him in and get him to the knight then you need his 3++ to work for the overwatch. However he only gets 4 attacks w/3 damage for each hit but still the knight will just leave CC won't it?

He gets an additional attack from MoH, so 5 attacks hitting on 2 rerolls 1's wounding on 2's (champion of humanity)
Fight again for 3CP or in death for 2CP.


It's a lot more than that. He gets plus one attacked for being part of death company, plus one attack from the stratagem you can play when a character fights, plus one attack from a bloody Angel psychic power and you take the Angel's wing relic to let him reroll charges and ignore OverWatch. Then you use a stratagem to let him roll 3 d6 for his charge, which he will really roll all three dice if he fails.

if you really want extra credit, you take the warlord trait to give his weapon plus one damage so it's a flat 4 instead of a flat 3.

All told you're looking at about 7 attacks with re-roll one to hit, hitting on a 3 plus, wounding on a 3 plus due to the blood Angel chapter tactic and a flat for damaged for everyone that gets through. Even before he fights twice it's a good 12 damage.

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ice_can wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
...you just beat on the castellen in CC...


With Space Marines?

Yes might of heroes and thunderhammer or might of heroes on srike. And fight twice,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of course their is also the recious method of sniper scouts with Guilliman for that reroll for MW spam.


Right, now get that CC character into combat with the Castellan when Fly doesn't work in the charge phase. It's not easy at all

Against knights that's not a problem, if your complaint is that guardsmen are too good a screen, you have a point.
But that's why turn 1 you hammer them with as much firepower as you can.


even against pure nights, you shouldn't be getting anywhere near him. Armigers can just as effectively pull you out until you're looking at turn three or four

for every other allied faction, they're basically all capable of making a screen that will keep you from ever touching Castellan

Your using blood angles only strategums, who can dial their captain smash feather up to 19.

My build is actually chapter independent, hence why it's what I use as ultramarine, and will work for the OP, he has the advantage of being able to swap the thunderhammer for fist of vengeance.

If your take all comers list is struggling to kill a T7 3+Sv even with a 5++, it has bigger issues.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/20 21:40:35


 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




Ice_can wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Spoiler:
Ice_can wrote:
dkoz wrote:
So how exactly does the smash cpt work? I get you drop him in and get him to the knight then you need his 3++ to work for the overwatch. However he only gets 4 attacks w/3 damage for each hit but still the knight will just leave CC won't it?

He gets an additional attack from MoH, so 5 attacks hitting on 2 rerolls 1's wounding on 2's (champion of humanity)
Fight again for 3CP or in death for 2CP.


It's a lot more than that. He gets plus one attacked for being part of death company, plus one attack from the stratagem you can play when a character fights, plus one attack from a bloody Angel psychic power and you take the Angel's wing relic to let him reroll charges and ignore OverWatch. Then you use a stratagem to let him roll 3 d6 for his charge, which he will really roll all three dice if he fails.

if you really want extra credit, you take the warlord trait to give his weapon plus one damage so it's a flat 4 instead of a flat 3.

All told you're looking at about 7 attacks with re-roll one to hit, hitting on a 3 plus, wounding on a 3 plus due to the blood Angel chapter tactic and a flat for damaged for everyone that gets through. Even before he fights twice it's a good 12 damage.

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ice_can wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
...you just beat on the castellen in CC...


With Space Marines?

Yes might of heroes and thunderhammer or might of heroes on srike. And fight twice,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of course their is also the recious method of sniper scouts with Guilliman for that reroll for MW spam.


Right, now get that CC character into combat with the Castellan when Fly doesn't work in the charge phase. It's not easy at all

Against knights that's not a problem, if your complaint is that guardsmen are too good a screen, you have a point.
But that's why turn 1 you hammer them with as much firepower as you can.


even against pure nights, you shouldn't be getting anywhere near him. Armigers can just as effectively pull you out until you're looking at turn three or four

for every other allied faction, they're basically all capable of making a screen that will keep you from ever touching Castellan

Your using blood angles only strategums, who can dial their captain smash feather up to 19.

My build is actually chapter independent, hence why it's what I use as ultramarine, and will work for the OP, he has the advantage of being able to swap the thunderhammer for fist of vengeance.

If your take all comers list is struggling to kill a T7 3+Sv even with a 5++, it has bigger issues.


'Smash Captain' as the term was originally appropriated for 8th, was BA exclusive. I guess colloquially you can use it for others, but if you're not BA you've probably already neutered yourself enough to make it meh.

It's not jilling 1 T7. First of all, Armigers can Rotate Ion Shields too, so they can be 4++. If your opponent sees threatening Smash Captains it also won't be just 1 you have to kill to reach the Castellan, he's going to make it multiple. You also have to kill them fast enough that the almost certainly accompanying Gallants/Wardens can't move to plug the hole.

As an example, I can take 3 Armigers, 2 Gallants and 1 Castellan in a 2k list. Using standard terrain (such as NOVA's, the Castellan can be placed on the hill in the corner. From the hill, the 9" Deep Strike bidder on the Castellan alone will prevent you from even landing on 2/4 sides. I place 2 Armigers on one side and the Gallants on the other with the third armiger.

It will take you way too long to get through that. Meanwhile, the Knight player has 2 objectives from the word go and be racking up kills.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/20 22:03:54


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

dkoz wrote:
So how exactly does the smash cpt work? I get you drop him in and get him to the knight then you need his 3++ to work for the overwatch. However he only gets 4 attacks w/3 damage for each hit but still the knight will just leave CC won't it?

To run a proper Smash Cap, you really need to play Blood Angels as they have the following buffs available:

1. Relic Jump Pack negates overwatch and reroll failed charges.
2. Death Visions of Sanguinius (1CP pre-game strat. Gives Death Company keyword, +1A and a 6+++).
3. Warlord trait "Artisan of War" makes the Thunder Hammer 4 damage.
4. Red Rampage (1CP stratagem gives +D3 attacks for the entire combat phase which means it also works if you fight a 2nd time).
5. Descent of Angels (2CP stratagem, 3D6" charge out of Reserves).
6. Upon Wings of Fire (2CP stratagem allowing you to remove a JP unit from the table and redeploy as if coming in from Reserves. Turn 1 charges rule!)
7. Forlorn Fury (2CP stratagem, a DC unit a move and advance before the first turn).
8. Red Thirst chapter trait (+1 to Wound in first round of combat).

With all these toys, you can pretty much hit a Knight any time you want, as long as you can clear your Smash Captain a landing zone (and Forlorn Fury works even if you can't get the chaff cleared totally, as long as you can physically get through).

A BA Smash Captain will typically do 12 points of damage to a T8 Knight/Titan on the charge. If you fight a second time (Honour of the Chapter/Only in Death...), that becomes 24 points of damage from a single model! You will need to spend a lot of CPs to do it but it may be worth it to remove a big lynchpin model like a Castellan.

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Audustum wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Spoiler:
Ice_can wrote:
dkoz wrote:
So how exactly does the smash cpt work? I get you drop him in and get him to the knight then you need his 3++ to work for the overwatch. However he only gets 4 attacks w/3 damage for each hit but still the knight will just leave CC won't it?

He gets an additional attack from MoH, so 5 attacks hitting on 2 rerolls 1's wounding on 2's (champion of humanity)
Fight again for 3CP or in death for 2CP.


It's a lot more than that. He gets plus one attacked for being part of death company, plus one attack from the stratagem you can play when a character fights, plus one attack from a bloody Angel psychic power and you take the Angel's wing relic to let him reroll charges and ignore OverWatch. Then you use a stratagem to let him roll 3 d6 for his charge, which he will really roll all three dice if he fails.

if you really want extra credit, you take the warlord trait to give his weapon plus one damage so it's a flat 4 instead of a flat 3.

All told you're looking at about 7 attacks with re-roll one to hit, hitting on a 3 plus, wounding on a 3 plus due to the blood Angel chapter tactic and a flat for damaged for everyone that gets through. Even before he fights twice it's a good 12 damage.

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ice_can wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
...you just beat on the castellen in CC...


With Space Marines?

Yes might of heroes and thunderhammer or might of heroes on srike. And fight twice,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of course their is also the recious method of sniper scouts with Guilliman for that reroll for MW spam.


Right, now get that CC character into combat with the Castellan when Fly doesn't work in the charge phase. It's not easy at all

Against knights that's not a problem, if your complaint is that guardsmen are too good a screen, you have a point.
But that's why turn 1 you hammer them with as much firepower as you can.


even against pure nights, you shouldn't be getting anywhere near him. Armigers can just as effectively pull you out until you're looking at turn three or four

for every other allied faction, they're basically all capable of making a screen that will keep you from ever touching Castellan

Your using blood angles only strategums, who can dial their captain smash feather up to 19.

My build is actually chapter independent, hence why it's what I use as ultramarine, and will work for the OP, he has the advantage of being able to swap the thunderhammer for fist of vengeance.

If your take all comers list is struggling to kill a T7 3+Sv even with a 5++, it has bigger issues.


'Smash Captain' as the term was originally appropriated for 8th, was BA exclusive. I guess colloquially you can use it for others, but if you're not BA you've probably already neutered yourself enough to make it meh.

It's not jilling 1 T7. First of all, Armigers can Rotate Ion Shields too, so they can be 4++. If your opponent sees threatening Smash Captains it also won't be just 1 you have to kill to reach the Castellan, he's going to make it multiple. You also have to kill them fast enough that the almost certainly accompanying Gallants/Wardens can't move to plug the hole.

As an example, I can take 3 Armigers, 2 Gallants and 1 Castellan in a 2k list. Using standard terrain (such as NOVA's, the Castellan can be placed on the hill in the corner. From the hill, the 9" Deep Strike bidder on the Castellan alone will prevent you from even landing on 2/4 sides. I place 2 Armigers on one side and the Gallants on the other with the third armiger.

It will take you way too long to get through that. Meanwhile, the Knight player has 2 objectives from the word go and be racking up kills.

If he's 4++'d his armigers, I'm shooting at the Castellen as it's sporting a 4++, or possibly even just blitzing one of those gallants off the table.
My Tau list will just pick on the 5++ knight's untill your out of CP, in that situation, my knight's are just going to shoot the 5++ invulnerable save knights to death, while shoving a gallant down your throat.
My Marines will pick on whatever is also only on a 5++.
Trying to batter through 1400 points of guard shielding a Castellen though they all have a problem with, the knights and Tau can just burry, the Castellen in firepower, my marines need to clear a path as they can't kill it with firepower.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I think w/the Crimson Fist having No Matter the Odds and the beta bolter drill rules will help them take out the IG screens for the knights.
   
Made in cn
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant




A.T. wrote:
Without allies?

Ignoring them or slowly grinding away at them with small arms.

The sisters heavy tanks got a big buff from the beta dex, but with average rolls 3 exorcists will only manage 4 wounds between them (closer to 5 with a support character).


You won't have a chance to kill his small units, the IK can swipe your hard hitter turn 1 before they level their bolters at the IG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I'm kind of surprised that most SM armies don't like a Librarian with the spell that stops invulnerable saves from being taken. Considering that Knights seem to be the OP de jour I know I'd have one in my list.


The "Null Zone" have significant downside, Its range is only 6", making it trash compare to other armies psychic power. It is only good in 2 ways. One: as a "defensive" power to psycologically discourage the enemy hard hitter rely on good inv saves like Magnus, Mortarion, Daemon Prince, Swarmlord, melee Hive Tyrants, Shining Spears, comes too close to you. Or Two: put on a Jumppack Libby as a completely suicide assault against a poorly bubble warp high value target, in which case you have to hope both things to happen, 1: you roll a 6 in advance roll plus you successfully cast the WC8 power; and 2: your opponent'S guardsmen screen are so poorly placed which failed to stop you reaching 6" range of the IK.

The CSM "Death Hex" is much much better than "Null Zone" If you want to actively nuke enemy tough target.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/21 12:33:26


 
   
Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





Ohio

Death hex on a TSons sorcerer is extra good at 18" vs the normal 12". If that's an option for people. I'll run an Arihman/Cultist patrol just for that sometimes with my WE.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I Use a warboss on a warbike (for speed) with the Relic PK and the Brutal But Kunnin warlord trait, So he rerolls hits and wounds, also increases damage by 1. Buff him with a weirdboy and he has 6 attacks at S16 so hes hitting on 2s rerolling and wounding on 2s rerolling, with -3 AP and 4 damage each. Then if the knight kills him he gets to fight again, or if the knight doesn't kill him there is another strat to fight again, eitherway the knight is dead in the CC phase.

If at first you don't succeed then Sky Diving isn't for you. 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






I played a guy yesterday, turn 1 with his orks a group of 20 lootas killed one of my Knights in a single salvo. I didn't have a 3++ invuln on it because I have 3 Knights in my list. So that was cool, losing a 450 point model to a single enemy unit shooting at it. :(
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

 Horst wrote:
I played a guy yesterday, turn 1 with his orks a group of 20 lootas killed one of my Knights in a single salvo. I didn't have a 3++ invuln on it because I have 3 Knights in my list. So that was cool, losing a 450 point model to a single enemy unit shooting at it. :(


What kind of Knight was it?

Because, math time...

20 Lootas do 1-6 shots each (1-3 base, can shoot again with a Strat).
Each shot hits on a 5+, generating an extra attack on a 6 (5+ with a strat). I'll assume the strat gets used.
Each shot does 4/9 hits.
Wounding on a 5+ is 4/27 wounds.
Saving on a 4+ is 2/27 unsaved.
2 Damage each is 4/27 damage per shot.
So, you'd need...

162 shots on average to kill a Questoris. That's both max number of shots AND shooting again to ALMOST do it.

Plopping this into anydice, 120 shots (again, the complete maximum) gives you just over 3% chance of killing a Questoris, and less than 1% chance of killing a Dominous.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





Ohio

 Horst wrote:
I played a guy yesterday, turn 1 with his orks a group of 20 lootas killed one of my Knights in a single salvo. I didn't have a 3++ invuln on it because I have 3 Knights in my list. So that was cool, losing a 450 point model to a single enemy unit shooting at it. :(

To be fair, he probably spend 300+ points on that unit.
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





Oregon, USA

Giving its princess a terminal migraine with Mental Onslaught

Rock drills/saws. Lots of them..

Abberants with hammers

Smite




The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

 chimeara wrote:
 Horst wrote:
I played a guy yesterday, turn 1 with his orks a group of 20 lootas killed one of my Knights in a single salvo. I didn't have a 3++ invuln on it because I have 3 Knights in my list. So that was cool, losing a 450 point model to a single enemy unit shooting at it. :(

To be fair, he probably spend 300+ points on that unit.


And CP! Don't forget the CP.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





Oregon, USA

 Horst wrote:
I played a guy yesterday, turn 1 with his orks a group of 20 lootas killed one of my Knights in a single salvo. I didn't have a 3++ invuln on it because I have 3 Knights in my list. So that was cool, losing a 450 point model to a single enemy unit shooting at it. :(



You realize some knights can do this too, every turn, right?

I don’t even bother running my Shadowsword any more, because a knight will just one shot it. It’s not uncommon to lose expensive models/units to a single unit shooting them


The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 chimeara wrote:
 Horst wrote:
I played a guy yesterday, turn 1 with his orks a group of 20 lootas killed one of my Knights in a single salvo. I didn't have a 3++ invuln on it because I have 3 Knights in my list. So that was cool, losing a 450 point model to a single enemy unit shooting at it. :(

To be fair, he probably spend 300+ points on that unit.


20 Lootas is 340pts. And the likelihood of killing a Knight is.....pathetically small. at most that is 60 shots hitting on 5s, if all 60 hit they still need 5s to wound. The chances of this happening is just insignificant. on average you get 20 actual hits with 10 reroll 1s and 10 reroll 6s, this yields another 7ish hits lets say 8, so 28 hits. These wound on 5s so 9ish wounds, they have -1 AP so your knight gets a 4+ save so 4-5 go through inflicting 8-10 damage, on average though you are only getting 40 shots not 60 so....cut 1/3rd of that damage off. So really you average 4 damage a turn without shooting twice and average # of shots. This guy just won the lottery

If at first you don't succeed then Sky Diving isn't for you. 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






 JNAProductions wrote:
 Horst wrote:
I played a guy yesterday, turn 1 with his orks a group of 20 lootas killed one of my Knights in a single salvo. I didn't have a 3++ invuln on it because I have 3 Knights in my list. So that was cool, losing a 450 point model to a single enemy unit shooting at it. :(


What kind of Knight was it?

Because, math time...

20 Lootas do 1-6 shots each (1-3 base, can shoot again with a Strat).
Each shot hits on a 5+, generating an extra attack on a 6 (5+ with a strat). I'll assume the strat gets used.
Each shot does 4/9 hits.
Wounding on a 5+ is 4/27 wounds.
Saving on a 4+ is 2/27 unsaved.
2 Damage each is 4/27 damage per shot.
So, you'd need...

162 shots on average to kill a Questoris. That's both max number of shots AND shooting again to ALMOST do it.

Plopping this into anydice, 120 shots (again, the complete maximum) gives you just over 3% chance of killing a Questoris, and less than 1% chance of killing a Dominous.


It was a Questoris class Knight, a Crusader. He rolled very well for his shots, and I rolled very poorly for saves. Lootas are super random....
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

 Horst wrote:
Spoiler:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 Horst wrote:
I played a guy yesterday, turn 1 with his orks a group of 20 lootas killed one of my Knights in a single salvo. I didn't have a 3++ invuln on it because I have 3 Knights in my list. So that was cool, losing a 450 point model to a single enemy unit shooting at it. :(


What kind of Knight was it?

Because, math time...

20 Lootas do 1-6 shots each (1-3 base, can shoot again with a Strat).
Each shot hits on a 5+, generating an extra attack on a 6 (5+ with a strat). I'll assume the strat gets used.
Each shot does 4/9 hits.
Wounding on a 5+ is 4/27 wounds.
Saving on a 4+ is 2/27 unsaved.
2 Damage each is 4/27 damage per shot.
So, you'd need...

162 shots on average to kill a Questoris. That's both max number of shots AND shooting again to ALMOST do it.

Plopping this into anydice, 120 shots (again, the complete maximum) gives you just over 3% chance of killing a Questoris, and less than 1% chance of killing a Dominous.


It was a Questoris class Knight, a Crusader. He rolled very well for his shots, and I rolled very poorly for saves. Lootas are super random....


And how many strats did he use?

Because, again, with the MAXIMUM number of shots, and both the Shoot Again and Moar Dakka strats, he still only had a 3.28% chance of doing that.

I'm not saying you're lying-I'm just saying that what you experienced is NOT LIKELY to happen again.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Lets say he rolled 50% better than average. So instead of 2 shots he got 3, so 60 shots, instead of 28ish hits he got 42, instead of 14 wounds he got 21 wounds, at this point the knight has 21 saving throws to make on a 4+, so lets reduce that to a 5+ so instead of saving 10.5 he saves 7. So a total of 14 go through which is 28 damage. LOL he has to do 50% better across the board to kill it in 1 shot, that is insanely lucky shooting.

If at first you don't succeed then Sky Diving isn't for you. 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

SemperMortis wrote:
Lets say he rolled 50% better than average. So instead of 2 shots he got 3, so 60 shots, instead of 28ish hits he got 42, instead of 14 wounds he got 21 wounds, at this point the knight has 21 saving throws to make on a 4+, so lets reduce that to a 5+ so instead of saving 10.5 he saves 7. So a total of 14 go through which is 28 damage. LOL he has to do 50% better across the board to kill it in 1 shot, that is insanely lucky shooting.


Knights have a 3+ armor.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 JNAProductions wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Lets say he rolled 50% better than average. So instead of 2 shots he got 3, so 60 shots, instead of 28ish hits he got 42, instead of 14 wounds he got 21 wounds, at this point the knight has 21 saving throws to make on a 4+, so lets reduce that to a 5+ so instead of saving 10.5 he saves 7. So a total of 14 go through which is 28 damage. LOL he has to do 50% better across the board to kill it in 1 shot, that is insanely lucky shooting.


Knights have a 3+ armor.


Deffgunz are -1 AP

If at first you don't succeed then Sky Diving isn't for you. 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

SemperMortis wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Lets say he rolled 50% better than average. So instead of 2 shots he got 3, so 60 shots, instead of 28ish hits he got 42, instead of 14 wounds he got 21 wounds, at this point the knight has 21 saving throws to make on a 4+, so lets reduce that to a 5+ so instead of saving 10.5 he saves 7. So a total of 14 go through which is 28 damage. LOL he has to do 50% better across the board to kill it in 1 shot, that is insanely lucky shooting.


Knights have a 3+ armor.


Deffgunz are -1 AP


I'm aware-I'm just confused how you got a 5+.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 JNAProductions wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Lets say he rolled 50% better than average. So instead of 2 shots he got 3, so 60 shots, instead of 28ish hits he got 42, instead of 14 wounds he got 21 wounds, at this point the knight has 21 saving throws to make on a 4+, so lets reduce that to a 5+ so instead of saving 10.5 he saves 7. So a total of 14 go through which is 28 damage. LOL he has to do 50% better across the board to kill it in 1 shot, that is insanely lucky shooting.


Knights have a 3+ armor.


Deffgunz are -1 AP


I'm aware-I'm just confused how you got a 5+.


I was giving them a 50% boost on average and I thought it made more sense to reduce the save then it was to lower the # saves on a 4+. Basically i am backing up your point, the likelihood of that happening is slim to none.

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Ah, okay. My bad.

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Vigo. Spain.

All this talk about OP Knights and Im here, 9 games and my valiant hasnt even hurt anything yet with his harpoon (I have shooted it 5 times in total, in 3 games, but failing to hit, to wound, or my opponent making the invulnerable, and youll say, shoot at vehicles without invuls... Good look being at 12"of one of those ).
In the other hand, Traitors Pyre is amazeballs. If the Valíant could have two flamethrowers....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/21 16:54:46


 
   
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I hope everyone has told GW how dumb 3++ on a Knight is in the community customer survey.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/tag/the-big-community-survey/

One day left. Go do it now!

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 JNAProductions wrote:
 Horst wrote:
Spoiler:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 Horst wrote:
I played a guy yesterday, turn 1 with his orks a group of 20 lootas killed one of my Knights in a single salvo. I didn't have a 3++ invuln on it because I have 3 Knights in my list. So that was cool, losing a 450 point model to a single enemy unit shooting at it. :(


What kind of Knight was it?

Because, math time...

20 Lootas do 1-6 shots each (1-3 base, can shoot again with a Strat).
Each shot hits on a 5+, generating an extra attack on a 6 (5+ with a strat). I'll assume the strat gets used.
Each shot does 4/9 hits.
Wounding on a 5+ is 4/27 wounds.
Saving on a 4+ is 2/27 unsaved.
2 Damage each is 4/27 damage per shot.
So, you'd need...

162 shots on average to kill a Questoris. That's both max number of shots AND shooting again to ALMOST do it.

Plopping this into anydice, 120 shots (again, the complete maximum) gives you just over 3% chance of killing a Questoris, and less than 1% chance of killing a Dominous.


It was a Questoris class Knight, a Crusader. He rolled very well for his shots, and I rolled very poorly for saves. Lootas are super random....


And how many strats did he use?

Because, again, with the MAXIMUM number of shots, and both the Shoot Again and Moar Dakka strats, he still only had a 3.28% chance of doing that.

I'm not saying you're lying-I'm just saying that what you experienced is NOT LIKELY to happen again.


Well it happened in a tournament yesterday, so I didn't think you were calling me a liar or anything, and it's pretty reassuring to know that was a fluke.

He did indeed use more dakka and showing off. It was brutal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Galas wrote:
All this talk about OP Knights and Im here, 9 games and my valiant hasnt even hurt anything yet with his harpoon (I have shooted it 5 times in total, in 3 games, but failing to hit, to wound, or my opponent making the invulnerable, and youll say, shoot at vehicles without invuls... Good look being at 12"of one of those ).
In the other hand, Traitors Pyre is amazeballs. If the Valíant could have two flamethrowers....


When people say, "Knights are OP!!!" 99% of the time they're complaining about a very specific Knight... army with a single Knight, a Raven Castellan with a 3++ invulnerable.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/21 17:23:19


 
   
Made in us
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So yeah, 340 points (minimum) and 4 CP to take down a 450 point model.

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Made in us
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Do Knights get to fire overwatch?
   
 
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