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 Shadenuat wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Whilst all of this is pretty bad, some of it is hilariously bad.

The "A Taste For Death" stratagem, for example, gives a unit +1 to hit in melee if it kills something in the shooting phase. It will already be getting +1 to hit from strength from death, so this gives it +2. Everything already hits on 2's

Unless they try to hit a unit which has natural -1 to hit in melee, and those exist.

But are also pretty rare.

 Shadenuat wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Whilst all of this is pretty bad, some of it is hilariously bad.

The "A Taste For Death" stratagem, for example, gives a unit +1 to hit in melee if it kills something in the shooting phase. It will already be getting +1 to hit from strength from death, so this gives it +2. Everything already hits on 2's

Unless they try to hit a unit which has natural -1 to hit in melee, and those exist.

Well yeah, also you could have a Wraithlord/Knight who's profile has degraded so they hit on 4's, then some how manage to kill something in the shooting phase. Or a Wave Serpent that now gets to hit on 4's in CC. It's still pointless.

The Incubi one is also terrible, as is the +3 to a psychic test if you managed to smite something to death beforehand. Do they have any powers good enough to spend CP on? Will you remember this strat exists on the rare occasion you get to use it?

The +3 to test is actually pretty decent to force through enemy Deny. Yvraine would then cast with +4. You then can snipe enemy with Gaze, land Doom or your 5++ aura.

It is situational, but it is a good trick. You can have a Warlock with Gaze, for example, they don't have re-rolls or bonuses to casts, and it might easily be worth it.

 Shadenuat wrote:
The +3 to test is actually pretty decent to force through enemy Deny. Yvraine would then cast with +4. You then can snipe enemy with Gaze, land Doom or your 5++ aura.

It is situational, but it is a good trick.

I think the trick is that it means Yvraine will be dealing D6 mortal wounds with Smite on a 7+ psychic test.

I think Smite requires a "natural" roll. I am not sure.

Or is that Perils that works like that?

Perils are natural doubles, the bonus damage for Smite just requires the test to be >10.

Yeah, you're right.

+3 to cast is undeniably a very strong ability, and would be great to force through really clutch powers like Jinx, Quicken, Doom, and... nothing from the revenant dicipline.

After carefully positioning 2-3 Psykers to all smite the same target (hopefully one that isn't a terrible waste of your psychic phase, and also only has about 4-6 wounds left), casting those smites without being denied, and spending 1CP, you get to force through an underwhelming psychic power!


On another point, I notice that it's no longer possible to put Ynnari units inside non-Ynnari transports. A Ynnari Vanguard detachment carried inside Alaitoc Wave Serpents might have been something.


As a Craftworld player the only thing I might use from this is the Yncarne. He's still overcosted, but his Warlord Trait makes him even more of a beast in CC, and his teleporting tricks are still cool. You could combine him with big Storm guardian blobs, which would make use of his auras and the 5++ power, but I'd probably run him in a Craftword detachment.

Well, now we know why Ynnari have their own Doom variants - because they can't use CWs Doom.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
+3 to cast is undeniably a very strong ability, and would be great to force through really clutch powers like Jinx, Quicken, Doom, and... nothing from the revenant dicipline.

Sadly, the +3 strat can ONLY be used on Smite and the Revenant discipline. Ynnari psykers must draw their powers from Revenant instead of Fate, Battle, or Phantasmancy.

Goobi2 wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
+3 to cast is undeniably a very strong ability, and would be great to force through really clutch powers like Jinx, Quicken, Doom, and... nothing from the revenant dicipline.

Sadly, the +3 strat can ONLY be used on Smite and the Revenant discipline. Ynnari psykers must draw their powers from Revenant instead of Fate, Battle, or Phantasmancy.

Yup, still seems best situated for adding Yvraine into a DE list for super smites and psychic defense

She only denies one power tho.

 Shadenuat wrote:
She only denies one power tho.

Taken in a Kabal detachment you pay 58~ points versus an archon. You lose the buff aura and give up the opportunity of bringing say an index blaster (or blast pistol) but get two psychic powers (you can't buff so its just mind bullets) and a deny. Both of which have +1 inbuilt.
She has a 4++, which some people seem to reckon is better than the shadowfield. (YMMV).

Hardly an auto-take, but its a potentially interesting alternative if you are running a battalion and that second archon feels like a tax.

I guess you could plug in a full Ynnari detachment to unlock some of the other toys... but it just feels like more tax for no obvious purpose.

At its core, Strength from Death is an alternate chapter tactic, which requires something to die to activate. Is something likely to die every turn? Yes, but its going to be a pain when you have cold dice. If you have lots of assault units, you won't have shooting units to activate it, so you are in this weird trade off. And weird trade offs=bad.

Does it compare with what Aeldari already have? In my view not really. I feel DE obsessions are better (full stop, the end) for Kabals or Cults. Alaitoc is better for CW - even with a weird assault focus. A wraith heavy army might theoretically benefit (but again, shooting as you waddle forward is an issue) - but you are giving up the Vigilus detachment which i think help you a lot. Harlequin bikers seem a possibility - but I am not convinced its a major upgrade over just taking Frozen Stars.
None of the warlord traits, relics or psychic powers are the sort of thing you build a list around. They are all just functional.

United in Death could be interesting - but to get the benefit, you need 3 Ynnari detachments. In which case have fun, because you have spent nearly 600 points on the three characters before anything else. I don't know if you can just say its "burn 1 CP for an extra attack on any one Ynnari unit" - and even if it was, that's not breaking the game. As it is the Visarch should be at least 30 points lower, and the Yncarne probably 50.

Agree with everything. Anything that can change points, be it Ynnari FAQ or next CA, should address their point costs.

So i played a pre-WD ynnari list with a friend of mine to check out how busted they felt (i'd heard about them but never tried them) and boy, they were pretty dum (but fun as hell to play with the "big brain" plays). Anyway, i was running The Yncarne because that model is awesome and i was wondering how exactly its "summoned by death" worked, as in, how do i determine its allowed positioning.

does the yncarne basically take the old unit's place or is do i place it down before removing the old models, essentially placing them base-to-base ?

I plan on running it in my Wych cult list once WD hits and i wanted to make sure i play it properly

It takes the old units place, you are suppose to go as close as possible, meaning its base needs to be where the old units base(s) where.

Edit: to add, you have some wiggle room, if the unit was 30 orks, then you basically have that entire foot print to work it, if it was 1 single character with a 25mm base, just make sure the Yncarne's base could "hide" that 25mm base under it.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
It takes the old units place, you are suppose to go as close as possible, meaning its base needs to be where the old units base(s) where.

Edit: to add, you have some wiggle room, if the unit was 30 orks, then you basically have that entire foot print to work it, if it was 1 single character with a 25mm base, just make sure the Yncarne's base could "hide" that 25mm base under it.

Alright, thanks! I played it wrong then, i was treating it similarly to units disembarking a transport (set up the unit before removing the transport).

So random thoughts so far.
spearhead of 3 Ynnari wraithlords with swords, Yvraine with Shield of Ynnead and Word of the Phoenix, 5 wraithblades in a serpent, and a wraithseer with the Lost Shroud and D-Cannon.

Also thinking of maybe a drukhari battalion with 20 wyches in webway, 2x5 kabalites (probably in venoms for dakka), Yncarne, succubus or archon, and 9 reavers with +1A combat drug.

 bullyboy wrote:
So random thoughts so far.
spearhead of 3 Ynnari wraithlords with swords, Yvraine with Shield of Ynnead and Word of the Phoenix, 5 wraithblades in a serpent, and a wraithseer with the Lost Shroud and D-Cannon.

Also thinking of maybe a drukhari battalion with 20 wyches in webway, 2x5 kabalites (probably in venoms for dakka), Yncarne, succubus or archon, and 9 reavers with +1A combat drug.

I dont know how competitive it would be but i probably will try it on tabletop simulator, wraiths are so cool.

I think that the Yvraine, 3 Wraithlords with starcannons and ghostglaive and spiritseer could be a fun semi competitive option.

The Wraithlords are 121 points per model, with good ranged damage output both in melee and ranged. With 560 points its not that expensive. A wraithseer is very cool but with it being more than 12 wounds its not that interesting.

For some reason I feel like 5++ was not intended for vehicles and monsters and GW may change it.

 Barnie25 wrote:
I think that the Yvraine, 3 Wraithlords with starcannons and ghostglaive and spiritseer could be a fun semi competitive option.

The Wraithlords are 121 points per model, with good ranged damage output both in melee and ranged. With 560 points its not that expensive. A wraithseer is very cool but with it being more than 12 wounds its not that interesting.

Give the Wraithseer Lord of Rebirth (with the strat, don't make him your WL) and he's really tough. T8 3+/5++/5+++ and 12 wounds, regenning one a turn is nice for 100 points (+ whatever ranged weapon you give him). Anyone else looking at the Warlock Council (probably on bikes) to spread out psy buffs? 5++ from a big unit footprint and Storm of Whispers from the same could be real nice.

Drager wrote:

 Barnie25 wrote:
I think that the Yvraine, 3 Wraithlords with starcannons and ghostglaive and spiritseer could be a fun semi competitive option.

The Wraithlords are 121 points per model, with good ranged damage output both in melee and ranged. With 560 points its not that expensive. A wraithseer is very cool but with it being more than 12 wounds its not that interesting.

Give the Wraithseer Lord of Rebirth (with the strat, don't make him your WL) and he's really tough. T8 3+/5++/5+++ and 12 wounds, regenning one a turn is nice for 100 points (+ whatever ranged weapon you give him). Anyone else looking at the Warlock Council (probably on bikes) to spread out psy buffs? 5++ from a big unit footprint and Storm of Whispers from the same could be real nice.

Yeah that is a good shout!

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

On another point, I notice that it's no longer possible to put Ynnari units inside non-Ynnari transports. A Ynnari Vanguard detachment carried inside Alaitoc Wave Serpents might have been something.

Where is this? I was planning to put Ynarri in Drukharii venoms, I can't see this restriction, due I must be missing it though if you have!

They replace the tag which transports use for carrying models. You can carry ynarri in ynarri venom, but not <wych cult> or <kabal> venom.

 Shadenuat wrote:
They replace the tag which transports use for carrying models.

I'm pretty sure he meant that if he had 2 different detachment : 1 Craftworld Alaitoc and 1 Ynnari. under the old rules, his Ynnari HQ's could embark in any aeldari transport meaning, that you could put yvraine in the alaitoc wave serpent. But that rule is now gone so you cannot anymore.

Drukharii transports don't work that way. They all carry all Drukhari infantry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Shadenuat wrote:
They replace the tag which transports use for carrying models.

I'm pretty sure he meant that if he had 2 different detachment : 1 Craftworld Alaitoc and 1 Ynnari. under the old rules, his Ynnari HQ's could embark in any aeldari transport meaning, that you could put yvraine in the alaitoc wave serpent. But that rule is now gone so you cannot anymore.

But you still can fit Ynarri Drukharii in none Ynarri Drukharii transports. Also Ynarri and the Visarch can embark in any aeldari transport.

VladimirHerzog wrote:
I'm pretty sure he meant that if he had 2 different detachment : 1 Craftworld Alaitoc and 1 Ynnari. under the old rules, his Ynnari HQ's could embark in any aeldari transport meaning, that you could put yvraine in the alaitoc wave serpent. But that rule is now gone so you cannot anymore.

It is not? The rule is still there in character abilities.

Drukharii transports don't work that way. They all carry all Drukhari infantry.

Oh right. So while Wave Serpents are screwed, the Drukhari transports don't care.

Good job GW.

I'm looking for a bit of advice:

I'd like to include a Ynnari Autarch in my DE army. Specifically a Swooping Hawk Autarch with the Thirsting Blade and Lord of Rebirth. If you're wondering it's because he's about as close as I can get to the Corsair Prince I used to use back in 7th.

Now, because GW are asshats I also have to include one of the Ynnari special characters (either Yvraine or the Visarch, I honestly couldn't care less which).

Anyway, I'm looking for advice on what to run these 2 HQs with. Do you think it would be worth running some other (ideally cheap) Eldar units, or should I just add one of the cheap HQs and have a Supreme Command Detachment?

Also, I've got no experience kitting out Autarchs - is it worth taking a Reaper Missile Launcher on him, or would I be better off just using a Shuriken Catapult or other cheap weapon?

 vipoid wrote:
I'm looking for a bit of advice:

I'd like to include a Ynnari Autarch in my DE army. Specifically a Swooping Hawk Autarch with the Thirsting Blade and Lord of Rebirth. If you're wondering it's because he's about as close as I can get to the Corsair Prince I used to use back in 7th.

Now, because GW are asshats I also have to include one of the Ynnari special characters (either Yvraine or the Visarch, I honestly couldn't care less which).

Anyway, I'm looking for advice on what to run these 2 HQs with. Do you think it would be worth running some other (ideally cheap) Eldar units, or should I just add one of the cheap HQs and have a Supreme Command Detachment?

Also, I've got no experience kitting out Autarchs - is it worth taking a Reaper Missile Launcher on him, or would I be better off just using a Shuriken Catapult or other cheap weapon?

Autarchs work well with a Banshee Mask and the reaper launcher is nice too, but could be dropped if points are tight (I run mine with a deathspinner). If you add Yvraine you can give him reroll to wounds in combat and heal him when he gets injured. Chuck in a Warlock and you can add another mortal wound power (probably Gaze). Alternatively take 3 troops, 3 Stormguardians units are 144 points, which might be worth it to you for +5 CP. Alternatively, for 180 points, you can 3 units of Rangers, which gives you the Sniper that DE lacks.

Here's my assessment of the strats, what does everyone else think?

A Taste for Death
This stratagem gives +1 to hit to an army with WS 3+ and a +1 to hit on the charge under the same circumstances and only 1 model (the striking scorpion exarch) that cares about rolling 6+. It has a very small number of niche uses, which will almost never come up and is therefore pretty much useless, you can't plan to use this as part of a strategy and the situations were it is useful are incredibly rare.

Exalted of Ynnead
This is a cool, fun strat that let's you make some nice beatstick HQs. The +1 Str and Attack makes the Archon with Huskblade much, much better. S5 is just so much more powerful than S4. Makes him a genuine threat to heavy vehicles and a nightmare to MEQ. Other warlord traits work nicely for the Succubus, Troupe Master or Autarch too. And there's always CP generation!

Souls of the Strongest
This is niche and opponent dependent, but a nice bump for killing the enemy warlord. Essentially it's an auto use if you kill them, but I don't think I'd build a strategy around it.

Back from the Brink
Making Ynarri characters get back up is awesome. This is particularly good for your warlord (to deny the opponent a point) or your Exalted beatstick to just keep bringing the pain.

Inevitable Fate
This is great, a way to get a second combat only doom on top of the psychic power. It's very similar to a Covens strat, but is a massive boost to Reavers, making them a truly terrifying threat (hitting on 2s reroll 1s with S4 AP-1 reroll to wound is great).

Whispering Spirits
Niche, but handy in Aeldari leadership bombs.

Acolyte of Ynnead
Niche, because the trigger is hard to pull off, but very powerful when successful. +3 to Smite on top of Yvraine's +1 or a Farseers reroll gives a solid chance of hitting 11+ (better than 50%).
Garbage tier. None of the Revenant powers need this much AND it's hard to pull off.

Ynnead's Net
Very useful as the normal ways to do this from the other codex's are locked out. Again this boosts Reavers and Shining Spears. I think Reavers may be a really nice unit for Ynarri.

Reborn Together
OK in some circumstances. If you don't have the Yncarne near by or PfP morale immunity and you have multiple large squads needing a check then... sure why not?

United in Death
This would be great if it wasn't locked behind a 700 point paywall. I'm going to write to GW FAQ and hope they address this as it's either the best stratagem in the codex or a dog's dinner. And it seems to be the latter. If you have 3 Ynarri detachments though, this is standout great.

Shrine of the Whispering God
No thanks. Incubi aren't great. This isn't enough to make the great. Done.

The Great Enemy
This is fine, same flavourful strat as the other Aeldari get.

Webway Ambush
Another copy of the other Aeldari, but just as useful as ever.

Deadly Misdirection
Another duplicate from other Aeldari and a welcome one.

Lightning Fast Reactions
Another tried and true Aeldari strat

Fire and Fade
Ibid.

Artefacts of Death
Your standard relic strat