Forbidden Power - new mercenary rules for AOS - we may already know this as "soup" in 40k

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**Eldarsif**

auticus wrote:
Im not claiming it will or will not be anything. I am just concerned for what they could be doing with it.

This is how you develop ulcers. I would just suggest not worrying about the future and just enjoy the present moment white it lasts.

**Kroem**

Dogs of war were really cool as well, you forgot to say that bit!

Each unit was unique with it's own characters and background story...

**auticus**

Eldarsif wrote:
auticus wrote:
Im not claiming it will or will not be anything. I am just concerned for what they could be doing with it.

This is how you develop ulcers. I would just suggest not worrying about the future and just enjoy the present moment white it lasts.

That won't help my fall campaign event.

**tneva82**

40k style soup already exists in AOS in form of grand alliances don't they though? It's not like you can soup necrons and orks in 40k. Instead you have couple grand alliances(imperium, chaos, eldar) who have factions who can ally with each other. doesn't sound that different to me from what AOS has. Or can't free guild and stormcast be fielded together right now? That's 40k soup style. If storm cast could be fielded say with chaos or nagash legions that would be equilavent of say necrons and ork allying which isn't possible in 40k.

**Overread**

auticus wrote:
Eldarsif wrote:
auticus wrote:
Im not claiming it will or will not be anything. I am just concerned for what they could be doing with it.

This is how you develop ulcers. I would just suggest not worrying about the future and just enjoy the present moment white it lasts.

That won't help my fall campaign event.

Yes but do you need to be planning that now beyond "hey guys I'm running a campaign hope to see you then" It's a wargame not a DnD campaign so its not as if you need vast amounts of planning.

Besides if its anything like the rest of the optional bolt-on rules you can easily say "campign - using endless spells, realm rules set in Ashquay and no mercenaries rules"

**auticus**

My campaigns are not just weekend tournaments using standard matched play rules that require little prep, so yeah they require some decent amount of planning. They go on usually for 3-4 months.

If they drop a crap bomb on the game with some busted mercenary rules, that will need taken into account. If they drop them on the game, they are matched play official, and I have not had time to vet them, and I exclude them, I take all kinds of hell.

I've attached the past two campaigns (from 2017 and 2018) and the one I'm currently working on.

**Ghaz**

Looks like they're going the short story route for Forbidden Power:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/10/tales-of-forbidden-power-sacristygw-homepage-post-1/

**NinthMusketeer**

tneva82 wrote:
40k style soup already exists in AOS in form of grand alliances don't they though? It's not like you can soup necrons and orks in 40k. Instead you have couple grand alliances(imperium, chaos, eldar) who have factions who can ally with each other. doesn't sound that different to me from what AOS has. Or can't free guild and stormcast be fielded together right now? That's 40k soup style. If storm cast could be fielded say with chaos or nagash legions that would be equilavent of say necrons and ork allying which isn't possible in 40k.

Correct. In AoS the allegiance abilities for the soup lists are notably worse, to compensate for being able to freely mix and match.

**EnTyme**

auticus wrote:
My campaigns are not just weekend tournaments using standard matched play rules that require little prep, so yeah they require some decent amount of planning. They go on usually for 3-4 months.

If they drop a crap bomb on the game with some busted mercenary rules, that will need taken into account. If they drop them on the game, they are matched play official, and I have not had time to vet them, and I exclude them, I take all kinds of hell.

"Hey, folks! Since I didn't have time to go over the new [insert latest GW campaign] rules during the planning stages, we won't be using them in the upcoming campaign. I'll go over them ASAP and we'll see whether or not they're viable for the next campaign I have planned. I know some of you were really looking forward to using [latest GW campaign], but in the interest of making the best campaign event possible, I have to plan these things out months in advance. Thank you for your understanding, and see you all next week!"

**auticus**

That doesn't work with some people. Some people throw epic stank fests when you houserule out matched play rules, and thats what I'm trying to avoid.

**Kanluwen**

"Soandso will no longer be welcome at our events due to throwing epic stank fests."

Problem solved!

**NinthMusketeer**

That is really easy for someone outside the community to simply say, and far harder to enact in practice. I know from experience.

**Kanluwen**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
That is really easy for someone outside the community to simply say, and far harder to enact in practice. I know from experience.

I'm aware that it's hard to enact in practice--but there comes a time when either you need to drop the hammer or just get over it.

**Galas**

Yeah. Excluding people, like, real people, in person, that are physically in front of you, in your store, with a bunch of other people around, is not easy.

But even then I agree. Theres a reason tournaments ban rules that are released like 1 month before the tournament. And nobody thinks thats unreasonable.

**auticus**

There are people in my area that don't believe in banning anything that is matched play and they get testy about it.

Its not like its one guy.

**Just Tony**

The end goal is to have both systems meet in the middle and become interchangeable. Anyone thinking otherwise is delusional. So if there's something you dislike about 40K that you're hoping doesn't find its way into AOS? Brace for impact.

**Overread**

Auticus you are safe - the Mercenaries is for open/narrative play games! The Matched play focus is instead on providing a 1K point rules system designed to balance the game alittle better for that scale of battle.

Also the new Apoc game for 40K is coming with some creative movement trays for the models so they might find a use for AoS, but also might spell a bit of a glance at the future for AoS (I'm sure we'll see an apoc style game system for it released in time)

**auticus**

Well thats great news thanks for sharing.

**Overread**

Well its good in terms of your campaign; but its bad in terms of it won't now win you a free army from EnTyme

EnTyme wrote:
I'll make you a deal, auticus. If the new mercenaries system works like you claim it will (Any army can bring in units from any other army as mercenaries, and those mercenaries receive all allegiance abilities of the faction that hired them), I will personally buy you a full, tournament-quality army of your design and paint it to your specifications. I will even pay for a custom Battlefoam case for the whole army and pay for shipping.

I feel confident that I won't have to do this because the way you seem to think the mechanic will work is just stupid. That's not even how soup works in 40k. So when we finally see how mercenaries actually work (my guess is specific units from specific factions can be used as allies by any faction, possibly having to pay a slightly higher points cost for using mercs from a different allegiance, and there is no way mercenaries will receive any benefit from allegiance abilities), all I ask is that you create a thread stating that you jumped the gun on this one and overreacted based on an assumption that makes no sense. Deal?

Edit - Just one qualifier for the deal: No Forgeworld or third-party kits, and I'll be painting with Citadel paints.

**NinthMusketeer**

Overread wrote:
The Matched play focus is instead on providing a 1K point rules system designed to balance the game a little better for that scale of battle.

I chucked when I read they wanted to support 1k scale tournaments. The unit and mechanic balance is so wonky at 1k; like a 3k+ points battle it can't be taken seriously even by GW standards. 1k is for friendly games, not competitive.

**auticus**

Unless they make 1k games more balanced somehow.

**Overread**

Most likely when GW says "tournaments!" it includes everything from your major competitive international even all the way down to the "tournament" which is just the local club having a few games linked together over the weekend.

Ergo its more likely that they hope to encourage it at "some level" but not just the super competitive end of the game.

That sid the big aspect for AoS is that a lot of the points are quite high for a 1K point game. You don't get to put a huge amount on the table and that can mess with balance on it own because it makes for more lists that have a limited focus and can't deal with as wide a range of issues.

**Ghaz**

From Warhammer Community:

Matched play won’t just be receiving new battleplans, but rather a whole new way to play, aimed at making smaller games viable for tournaments and competitive events. Balanced around the 1,000-point mark, Meeting Engagements offer key twists on normal Warhammer Age of Sigmar gameplay, is fast to play and takes up a smaller space than a fully fledged game. This makes it ideal if you’re building up an army, fancy a new challenge or just want to squeeze as many gamers into your club as possible!

Sounds like it's a bit more than just choosing to play a 1,000 point game, but some actual rules changes to help balance the game at the 1,000 point level.

**NinthMusketeer**

My point being that there are individual elements in battletomes and warscrolls that would need to be addressed; a central set of rules will be unable to resolve that. For example, Nurgle summoning is widely regarded as pretty reasonable at 2k. But it doesn't summon half as much at 1k, it summons the same amount. Tzeentch does not get half the fate dice at 1k, etc. Durable units that heal, and big models in general, are more valuable because it is harder to bring the proper offense to bear needed to get rid of them quickly--a GUO with endless gift will be nearly impossible to kill for most 1k armies, Nagash/Archaon can rip through a 1k army on their own, and so on. Saying no one unit can occupy more than X% of the army helps but only to a point. Just imagine trying to overcome LoN regeneration.

**Eldarsif**

My guess is that if they are serious about limiting 1000 points they will add rules that limit summoning, named creatures, and behemoths.

**Ghaz**

From Warhammer Communit:

You’ll be able to bring these epic battles to your tabletop with loads of new rules. An in-depth campaign system allows you to quest for the Stormvaults and obtain powerful artefacts that level-up between games (more on that later in the week!) and take your battles to Stygxx, a Realm of Battle with its own sorceries, command abilities and special rules for you to master.

Also included in the book are two new army lists that let you bring the forces from Forbidden Power to any of your games. Perhaps you’ll field the Lethisian Defenders army – a combined force of Stormcast Eternals, Idoneth Deepkin, Kharadron Overlords, Fyreslayers and Excelsior Warpriests that excels at grinding defensive warfare, complete with allegiance abilities, prayers, artefacts and more.

Or perhaps you’ll field the Legion of Grief – a new Legion of Nagash led by Lady Olynder herself who allow you to combine the terrifying might of the Nighthaunt’s full roster with Bravery-manipulating game mechanics, gravesites and more…

And if two new armies wasn’t enough, Forbidden Power features a new system that allows armies of any Grand Alliance to take Mercenary allies from the Fyreslayers or Flesh-eater Courts – offering you a great excuse to grab a Magmadroth…

**Quasistellar**

So. . . Are they going to bring back the Excelsior Warpriest? Devoted of Sigmar book incoming?

**NinthMusketeer**

Quasistellar wrote:
So. . . Are they going to bring back the Excelsior Warpriest? Devoted of Sigmar book incoming?

Battletome confirmed!

**auticus**

There is another stormcast battletome confirmed?

**Eldarsif**

As much as I love my Order buddies I would love to see a few Destruction tomes visited in the near future. So much exciting stuff to be done with Orruks, Ogors, and more.