Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Andersp90 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Mr Nobody wrote:
If Dolmen Gates are stupid, someone should have told the Emperor that when he tried to build his own.

I could go on a very long talk about exactly that. The Emperor's plan doesn't make sense.

His plan was to open up the webway to humanity, eliminating the need for dangerous and slow warp travel. How does that not make any sense?

So inertialess drives are gone which is weird because they are actually better than Warp travel and at least equal to the Webway.

Where is this stated?

It doesn't make sense because all it would do is put humanity into a huge war against the Eldar where they have inferior firepower, no advantage of numbers, an environment that actively tries to stop them and no guarantee of gaining anything because even if the Imperium won nothing stops the Eldar going "to hell with you" and destroying the Webway outright.

It's common sense. Warp travel is random so going from A to B could take you three weeks but it could also take three centuries or even send you there three years before you left. Inertialess drives are at least consistent so if you send reinforcements somewhere that are due in three days they'll be there in three days rather than it being a dice roll.
For the Necrons the Webway is a terrible method of travel because even if they aren't attacked by Eldar there then the Webway itself will seal them in and they can't just break it down like a barricade because that floods them with demons. Second the Webway is a labyrinth so they don't know where they're going and finally with the Webway the Eldar can just seal parts of it off to block the Necrons off which you can't do with inertialess drives.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Platuan4th wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Mr Nobody wrote:
If Dolmen Gates are stupid, someone should have told the Emperor that when he tried to build his own.

I could go on a very long talk about exactly that. The Emperor's plan doesn't make sense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
Besides, inertialess drives likely still exist, but you can't build an intergalatic empire on them alone.warp travel and webway travel is simply going to be faster.

They don't. The codex quote above says without Dolmen gates they'd only have slow stasis ships. So inertialess drives are gone which is weird because they are actually better than Warp travel and at least equal to the Webway.

You understand that slow is a relative term, right? An FTL drive is slow when compared to Warp and Webway travel and is in fact the reason Tau haven't moved beyond a small section of the galaxy. Tau have FTL drives, but it still takes them years to move through the Damocles Gulf because it's a slow method of interstellar travel in the 40K universe.

Necron inertialess drives most likely still exist, but when compared to the use of Dolmen Gates, it's a slow, inefficient method of travel.

Dolmen Gates are a slow and inefficient means of travel. Inertialess Drives were the oldcrons sole method of FTL and they ruled the galaxy so it seems safe to assume they were good at their role.

pm713 wrote:


It doesn't make sense because all it would do is put humanity into a huge war against the Eldar where they have inferior firepower, no advantage of numbers, an environment that actively tries to stop them and no guarantee of gaining anything because even if the Imperium won nothing stops the Eldar going "to hell with you" and destroying the Webway outright.

That is simply not true. All of your points are covered in "The master of mankind".

1. The emperor intended to create new tunnels. This was the task of the uniferes. They were not going to use the original webway tunnels.

2. When the eldar learned of what the emperor was up to, they started sealing webway gates to their craftworlds do to fear of imperial invasion. The eldar knew that they could never hope to win a war with the imperium.

It's common sense.

Ok, I will try one last time: Where is it mentioned - in the fluff - that the necrons inertialess drives provided faster travel than warp- and webyway travel?

 Andersp90 wrote:

pm713 wrote:


It doesn't make sense because all it would do is put humanity into a huge war against the Eldar where they have inferior firepower, no advantage of numbers, an environment that actively tries to stop them and no guarantee of gaining anything because even if the Imperium won nothing stops the Eldar going "to hell with you" and destroying the Webway outright.

That is simply not true. All of your points are covered in "The master of mankind".

1. The emperor intended to create new tunnels. This was the task of the uniferes. They were not going to use the original webway tunnels.

2. When the eldar learned of what the emperor was up to, they started sealing webway gates to their craftworlds do to fear of imperial invasion. The eldar knew that they could never hope to win a war with the imperium.

It's common sense.

Ok, I will try one last time: Where is it mentioned - in the fluff - that the necrons inertialess drives provided faster travel than warp- and webyway travel?

Fair enough there then. I'm just going to bang my head against the wall in frustration about GW writing now.

It doesn't because they retconned it for newcrons.

pm713 wrote:


It doesn't because they retconned it for newcrons.

Was it ever mentioned? Im asking because I dont know since inertialess drives are not mentioned in the 3rd edition codex.

 Andersp90 wrote:

pm713 wrote:


It doesn't because they retconned it for newcrons.

Was it ever mentioned? Im asking because I dont know since inertialess drives are not mentioned in the 3rd edition codex.

It's not mentioned but it's a reasonable enough assumption that a races sole method of FTL is a good method when they ruled the galaxy.

 Andersp90 wrote:

pm713 wrote:


It doesn't because they retconned it for newcrons.

Was it ever mentioned? Im asking because I dont know since inertialess drives are not mentioned in the 3rd edition codex.

It was mentioned in the Battle Fleet Gothic rules for necron fleets. That's where the term Inertialess Drive comes from.

INERTIALESS DRIVE
Necron drives are capable of interstellar travel without the need to enter the Warp. The drive is fired whenever All Ahead Full orders are issued; instead of obeying the normal rules for this order the ship gains D6 x 10cm additional movement and can make a turn for every 20cm it travels

Page 57 of the 3rd ed Necron codex briefly describes how they work, but they don't give the drives a name.

The thing about 3rd ed necrons is that most of the fluff is not in the codex. Unlike today where its all compiled in the book, you actually had to look for the fluff from other sources, be it White Dwarf, Black Library or Specialist games.
Take Flayed Ones for example - the story behind them is that they are Necrons who remember what they were due to a system fault, and that drove them mad. You aren't going to find that tidbit about them in the codex, as its from a White Dwarf, iirc. Can't remember which issue though, I think it was from like 2006 or something.

Its almost as if the writer of 5th ed Necron fluff couldn't be arsed to do the research, and just pulled things out of his arse.

pm713 wrote:

 Andersp90 wrote:

pm713 wrote:


It doesn't because they retconned it for newcrons.

Was it ever mentioned? Im asking because I dont know since inertialess drives are not mentioned in the 3rd edition codex.

It's not mentioned but it's a reasonable enough assumption that a races sole method of FTL is a good method when they ruled the galaxy.

We know that the necrons lost the first war with the old ones because they could not match the mobility provided by the webway. So their inertialess drives must have been quite inferior compared to webway travel. I pointed this out to you a full page ago.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Page 57 of the 3rd ed Necron codex briefly describes how they work, but they don't give the drives a name.

There is no mention of how they work.


upload
" border="0" />

 Andersp90 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Andersp90 wrote:

pm713 wrote:


It doesn't because they retconned it for newcrons.

Was it ever mentioned? Im asking because I dont know since inertialess drives are not mentioned in the 3rd edition codex.

It's not mentioned but it's a reasonable enough assumption that a races sole method of FTL is a good method when they ruled the galaxy.

We know that the necrons lost the first war with the old ones because they could not match the mobility provided by the webway. So their inertialess drives must have been quite inferior compared to webway travel. I pointed this out to you a full page ago.

In terms of tactical mobility, not long distance travel.
Let me put it this way, who you do think will win, the guy who can run really fast, or the slow guy who can just teleport around at will?
It doesn't matter how fast you can run if you're dealing with someone who can just pop in and out of reality, and that's the problem the necrons faced. That's what they mean by out maneuvered. It wasn't a question of speed.
Outmaneuvered doesn't mean "this guy is faster than me", it means "this guy is more mobile". There's a difference. Old One ships simply had more degrees of movement than necron ships.

Page 57 describes the necron ships having to decelerate when entering combat, which would imply that Inertialess drives aren't effective at precise, combat orientated movements. Necron ships are pretty much stuck going in a straight line when they use their drives.

 Andersp90 wrote:

pm713 wrote:


It doesn't make sense because all it would do is put humanity into a huge war against the Eldar where they have inferior firepower, no advantage of numbers, an environment that actively tries to stop them and no guarantee of gaining anything because even if the Imperium won nothing stops the Eldar going "to hell with you" and destroying the Webway outright.

That is simply not true. All of your points are covered in "The master of mankind".

1. The emperor intended to create new tunnels. This was the task of the uniferes. They were not going to use the original webway tunnels.

2. When the eldar learned of what the emperor was up to, they started sealing webway gates to their craftworlds do to fear of imperial invasion. The eldar knew that they could never hope to win a war with the imperium.

It's common sense.

Ok, I will try one last time: Where is it mentioned - in the fluff - that the necrons inertialess drives provided faster travel than warp- and webyway travel?

The original network was long in a state where it had grown wild, breached by deamons and sealed in places. It was unmapped and random.

Building your own tunnels makes more sense than it seems. As despite less access. The emparor could open and cronstract key supply and trade roots safe in thr human webway away from the old eldar one.

Humanity would of had day a direct expressway to hub worlds and whole warp travel not entirely gone for a long time, thr human webway would take the heaviest traffic to be distributed among other worlds.

The imperial navy and other forces could be deployed extremely quickly to protect any hubs and these be bastaina of humanities expansion.

A hub and spoke network like airports used to operate.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

In terms of tactical mobility, not long distance travel.
Let me put it this way, who you do think will win, the guy who can run really fast, or the slow guy who can just teleport around at will?
It doesn't matter how fast you can run if you're dealing with someone who can just pop in and out of reality, and that's the problem the necrons faced. That's what they mean by out maneuvered. It wasn't a question of speed.
Outmaneuvered doesn't mean "this guy is faster than me", it means "this guy is more mobile". There's a difference. Old One ships simply had more degrees of movement than necron ships.

The webway IS for long distance travel, it dosent allowed you to "teleport" around the battlefield...... what the hell you talking about?

 Andersp90 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

In terms of tactical mobility, not long distance travel.
Let me put it this way, who you do think will win, the guy who can run really fast, or the slow guy who can just teleport around at will?
It doesn't matter how fast you can run if you're dealing with someone who can just pop in and out of reality, and that's the problem the necrons faced. That's what they mean by out maneuvered. It wasn't a question of speed.
Outmaneuvered doesn't mean "this guy is faster than me", it means "this guy is more mobile". There's a difference. Old One ships simply had more degrees of movement than necron ships.

The webway IS for long distance travel, it dosent allowed you to "teleport" around the battlefield...... what the hell you talking about?

Pretty sure the Old Ones can also open up little warp rifts to pop up where the necrons don't want them to at short distances. Well, in space. Keep in mind that a short distance in space is actually pretty huge. A cm in BFG represents something ridiculous, like a kilometer or something.
Even if they couldn't though, Warp Travel would allow them to jump behind an approaching enemy fleet, thereby allowing it either to attack it from behind or attack an undefended world. That's an outmaneuver. Inertialess drives only work in a straight line, which has its limitations. I mean, it may be as fast as warp travel, but it still has to watch out for obstructions. A necron ship just can't ignore intervening planets.

Eldar / Old One ships (assuming the Eldar copied the Old Ones, that is) were simply more agile than Necron ships in general too, even without warp travel.
If you want a good idea on how they compare, look at BFG's ruleset. In terms of flatout speed necron ships were a little faster, but they still had to move a minimum distance and had to follow the rules for turning. Eldar ships could just stay put and turn on the spot.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Pretty sure the Old Ones can also open up little warp rifts to pop up where the necrons don't want them to at short distances. Well, in space. Keep in mind that a short distance in space is actually pretty huge. A cm in BFG represents something ridiculous, like a kilometer or something.
Even if they couldn't though, Warp Travel would allow them to jump behind an approaching enemy fleet, thereby allowing it either to attack it from behind or attack an undefended world. That's an outmaneuver. Inertialess drives only work in a straight line, which has its limitations.

Eldar / Old One ships (assuming the Eldar copied the Old Ones, that is) were simply more agile than Necron ships in general too, even without warp travel.
If you want a good idea on how they compare, look at BFG's ruleset.

You are "pretty sure".

How about we stick to what is actually mentioned in the fluff?

This has pretty much been the theme of this entire thread. People presenting their headconnon as fact. Its getting tiring.

 Andersp90 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Pretty sure the Old Ones can also open up little warp rifts to pop up where the necrons don't want them to at short distances. Well, in space. Keep in mind that a short distance in space is actually pretty huge. A cm in BFG represents something ridiculous, like a kilometer or something.
Even if they couldn't though, Warp Travel would allow them to jump behind an approaching enemy fleet, thereby allowing it either to attack it from behind or attack an undefended world. That's an outmaneuver. Inertialess drives only work in a straight line, which has its limitations.

Eldar / Old One ships (assuming the Eldar copied the Old Ones, that is) were simply more agile than Necron ships in general too, even without warp travel.
If you want a good idea on how they compare, look at BFG's ruleset.

You are "pretty sure".

How about we stick to what is actually mentioned in the fluff?

This has pretty much been the theme of this entire thread. People presenting their headconnon as fact. Its getting tiring.

Well, why couldn't they? Couldn't they just enter the webway and pop out somewhere a little further during combat?
It is not my headcannon, it is tactics. The Webway allows a fleet to ignore obstructions. Inertialess drives don't. Which means you can appear behind enemy targets, as you can just go past them using the webway. Rather than engaging necron fleets head on, the old ones could just attack where they aren't using their webway portals or ambush them. That's like tactics 101.

Come to think of it, the necron 3rd ed book doesn't even say in combat, just that the superior necron technology was consistently outmaneuvered by webway portals. Which means that it could just be that the necrons would rush all the way to attack an Old One fleet, and the Old Ones would retreat into the webway where the necrons can't get them. Basic hit and run tactics.

Let me turn it around, where does it say that the Webway is faster than 3rd ed Inertialess drives? We know that it opens up more movement options, but that doesn't necessarily mean faster.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Well, why couldn't they? Couldn't they just enter the webway and pop out somewhere a little further during combat?

Because that is not how the webway is described in the lore. Its gate A to get to planet A. As in one gate. There are not billions scattered around a planet or a given point in space.

Which means that it could just be that the necrons would rush all the way to attack an Old One fleet, and the Old Ones would retreat into the webway where the necrons can't get them. Basic hit and run tactics.

How does fleeing your enemy win you the war?

Let me turn it around, where does it say that the Webway is faster than 3rd ed Inertialess drives? We know that it opens up more movement options, but that doesn't necessarily mean faster.

It dosent. Because there is no mention of Inertialess drives in the 3rd edition codex.

The webway is described as a way of getting from planet A to planet B. I have NEVER seen this "teleporting" around the battlefield mentioned anywhere in the fluff.

 Andersp90 wrote:

Which means that it could just be that the necrons would rush all the way to attack an Old One fleet, and the Old Ones would retreat into the webway where the necrons can't get them. Basic hit and run tactics.

How does fleeing your enemy win you the war?

By damaging them more than they damage you. Hence hit and run.
You attack an enemy base or supply line. You see an enemy fleet approaching. You hop into your nearest magic space highway portal, where they can't follow you.
Rinse and repeat to win. Its like trying to play whack a mole, except the moles have guns and indestructible burrows. Basically, just take what the Eldar do and apply that to the Old Ones.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Andersp90 wrote:


It dosent. Because there is no mention of Inertialess drives in the 3rd edition codex.

The webway is described as a way of getting from planet A to planet B. I have NEVER seen this "teleporting" around the battlefield mentioned anywhere in the fluff.

Fair enough, I guess its not a thing they do then.
So we don't actually know if one is faster than the other. As the Necrons did use inertialess drives to get around fairly quickly though, we can assume that they got the job done without the warp. Maybe its slower by about a day or so, maybe its faster by a nano-second. It doesn't matter, the point is that the necrons explicitly did not require the warp to travel.
And again, Inertialess drives are mentioned in BFG, not the 3rd ed codex. If you want more information on necron fleets you'll have to look there. Which is really annoying, but that's how it was.
It doesn't say that Inertialess drivers are faster than the webway in BFG either, mind you, just that they allow interstellar travel without having to use the warp.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Andersp90 wrote:

Which means that it could just be that the necrons would rush all the way to attack an Old One fleet, and the Old Ones would retreat into the webway where the necrons can't get them. Basic hit and run tactics.

How does fleeing your enemy win you the war?

By damaging them more than they damage you. Hence hit and run.
You attack an enemy base or supply line. You see an enemy fleet approaching. You hop into your nearest magic space highway portal, where they can't follow you.
Rinse and repeat to win. Its like trying to play whack a mole, except the moles have guns and indestructible burrows. Basically, just take what the Eldar do and apply that to the Old Ones.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Andersp90 wrote:


It dosent. Because there is no mention of Inertialess drives in the 3rd edition codex.

The webway is described as a way of getting from planet A to planet B. I have NEVER seen this "teleporting" around the battlefield mentioned anywhere in the fluff.

Fair enough, I guess its not a thing they do then.
So we don't actually know if one is faster than the other. As the Necrons did use inertialess drives to get around fairly quickly though, we can assume that they got the job done without the warp. Maybe its slower by about a day or so, maybe its faster by a nano-second. It doesn't matter, the point is that the necrons explicitly did not require the warp to travel.
And again, Inertialess drives are mentioned in BFG, not the 3rd ed codex. If you want more information on necron fleets you'll have to look there. Which is really annoying, but that's how it was.
It doesn't say that Inertialess drivers are faster than the webway in BFG either, mind you, just that they allow interstellar travel without having to use the warp.

Seeing as the old ones won round one quite handely, I assume that we are not talking nano-seconds..

I found the BFG as a pdf, and have read it though. This is pretty much it.


free pic hosting
" border="0" />

Wait. So if the Necrons only have mega slow ark ships and are incapable of warp travel, how did they set up this 'empire of old' in the first place? Or come into any actual serious conflict with the Old Ones? If the Old Ones nuked a planet of the Necrontyr, it would have taken them millennia to find out. And they'd never have been able to even launch an attack on the Old Ones in the first place (it would take millennia to arrive). And what would keep their 'empire' together when warp travel was impossible? None of it makes sense.

Furthermore, aren't the Tau capable of jumping through the warp using their lenses? Are you telling me Necrons are less advanced than Tau now?

This really is poor writing.

 Ketara wrote:
Wait. So if the Necrons only have mega slow ark ships and are incapable of warp travel, how did they set up this 'empire of old' in the first place? Or come into any actual serious conflict with the Old Ones? If the Old Ones nuked a planet of the Necrontyr, it would have taken them millennia to find out. And they'd never have been able to even launch an attack on the Old Ones in the first place (it would take millennia to arrive). And what would keep their 'empire' together when warp travel was impossible?

Furthermore, aren't the Tau capable of jumping through the warp using their lenses? Are you telling me Necrons are less advanced than Tau now?

This really is poor writing.

Yeah, 5th ed fluff isn't great. Necrons could use a retcon to fix the retcon.
I would really just limit the Dolmen gates to military usage as a counter, and let the Necrons get around by using Inertialess drives or tesseracts or something. Like, they go so fast it makes a wormhole. Sounds pretty sci-fi, and it keeps with the insane tech theme that the necrons are supposed to have going for them.

 Andersp90 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

In terms of tactical mobility, not long distance travel.
Let me put it this way, who you do think will win, the guy who can run really fast, or the slow guy who can just teleport around at will?
It doesn't matter how fast you can run if you're dealing with someone who can just pop in and out of reality, and that's the problem the necrons faced. That's what they mean by out maneuvered. It wasn't a question of speed.
Outmaneuvered doesn't mean "this guy is faster than me", it means "this guy is more mobile". There's a difference. Old One ships simply had more degrees of movement than necron ships.

The webway IS for long distance travel, it dosent allowed you to "teleport" around the battlefield...... what the hell you talking about?

Yeah. Webway is long range stratigic movement. Its not so much tactctial but let's you quickly reposition forces far quicker than the warp, real space etx.

We way exits out at certain points in space etx. It's ideal for planned actions but not battlefield tactical movements.

 Andersp90 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Andersp90 wrote:

pm713 wrote:


It doesn't because they retconned it for newcrons.

Was it ever mentioned? Im asking because I dont know since inertialess drives are not mentioned in the 3rd edition codex.

It's not mentioned but it's a reasonable enough assumption that a races sole method of FTL is a good method when they ruled the galaxy.

We know that the necrons lost the first war with the old ones because they could not match the mobility provided by the webway. So their inertialess drives must have been quite inferior compared to webway travel. I pointed this out to you a full page ago.

That's for the newcrons who don't seem to actually have them and if they do they're a different thing to oldcrons. Proper inertialess is at least equal to Webway travel in general and completely superior for the Necrons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jhe90 wrote:

 Andersp90 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

In terms of tactical mobility, not long distance travel.
Let me put it this way, who you do think will win, the guy who can run really fast, or the slow guy who can just teleport around at will?
It doesn't matter how fast you can run if you're dealing with someone who can just pop in and out of reality, and that's the problem the necrons faced. That's what they mean by out maneuvered. It wasn't a question of speed.
Outmaneuvered doesn't mean "this guy is faster than me", it means "this guy is more mobile". There's a difference. Old One ships simply had more degrees of movement than necron ships.

The webway IS for long distance travel, it dosent allowed you to "teleport" around the battlefield...... what the hell you talking about?

Yeah. Webway is long range stratigic movement. Its not so much tactctial but let's you quickly reposition forces far quicker than the warp, real space etx.

We way exits out at certain points in space etx. It's ideal for planned actions but not battlefield tactical movements.

You can make temporary exits from the Webway though. You can pop out almost anywhere you like in the galaxy or planets as long as theres a bit of Webway near enough to it. You can't hop in and out at the flick of a switch but you can go almost anywhere.

 jhe90 wrote:

 Andersp90 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

In terms of tactical mobility, not long distance travel.
Let me put it this way, who you do think will win, the guy who can run really fast, or the slow guy who can just teleport around at will?
It doesn't matter how fast you can run if you're dealing with someone who can just pop in and out of reality, and that's the problem the necrons faced. That's what they mean by out maneuvered. It wasn't a question of speed.
Outmaneuvered doesn't mean "this guy is faster than me", it means "this guy is more mobile". There's a difference. Old One ships simply had more degrees of movement than necron ships.

The webway IS for long distance travel, it dosent allowed you to "teleport" around the battlefield...... what the hell you talking about?

Yeah. Webway is long range stratigic movement. Its not so much tactctial but let's you quickly reposition forces far quicker than the warp, real space etx.

We way exits out at certain points in space etx. It's ideal for planned actions but not battlefield tactical movements.

OK not quite so fixed and static bit you still for to find a existing point or so to return to the webway. The ability to exit off anywhere almost makes its power make more sense.

The emparor would of had near instantious travel in comparison to warp and so anywhere... It's a galexey winning advantage.

I'm not sure what the size limit of the webway is. The current massive craftworlds I think are not capable of it bar a few routes ans so.

There more like mobile battle stations or so.

 jhe90 wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

 Andersp90 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

In terms of tactical mobility, not long distance travel.
Let me put it this way, who you do think will win, the guy who can run really fast, or the slow guy who can just teleport around at will?
It doesn't matter how fast you can run if you're dealing with someone who can just pop in and out of reality, and that's the problem the necrons faced. That's what they mean by out maneuvered. It wasn't a question of speed.
Outmaneuvered doesn't mean "this guy is faster than me", it means "this guy is more mobile". There's a difference. Old One ships simply had more degrees of movement than necron ships.

The webway IS for long distance travel, it dosent allowed you to "teleport" around the battlefield...... what the hell you talking about?

Yeah. Webway is long range stratigic movement. Its not so much tactctial but let's you quickly reposition forces far quicker than the warp, real space etx.

We way exits out at certain points in space etx. It's ideal for planned actions but not battlefield tactical movements.

OK not quite so fixed and static bit you still for to find a existing point or so to return to the webway. The ability to exit off anywhere almost makes its power make more sense.

The emparor would of had near instantious travel in comparison to warp and so anywhere... It's a galexey winning advantage.

I'm not sure what the size limit of the webway is. The current massive craftworlds I think are not capable of it bar a few routes ans so.

There more like mobile battle stations or so.

As I understand it you can create a temporary portal back in but that's harder so you do need things like ships for that and it leaves you vulnerable while you do it.

The size varies massively. Some places you can have multiple spaceships bombarding an area and others you need to bend over.

Instantaneous is a huge exaggeration as well you do still spend a fair while travelling. It's more that Warp travel is slow and the Webway is normal than the webway is really fast.

pm713 wrote:

That's for the newcrons who don't seem to actually have them and if they do they're a different thing to oldcrons. Proper inertialess is at least equal to Webway travel in general and completely superior for the Necrons.

No, its from the 3rd edition codex and onwards.

" border="0" />

You can make temporary exits from the Webway though. You can pop out almost anywhere you like in the galaxy or planets as long as theres a bit of Webway near enough to it.

Better go inform the eldar about this. They dont seem to be aware that you can just kick a hole in the webway and jump out anywhere they like. Warp spiders are going to feeeel reeeaalll stupid...

As I understand it you can create a temporary portal back in but that's harder so you do need things like ships for that and it leaves you vulnerable while you do it.

You need to bring a physical gate to do that.

It's more that Warp travel is slow and the Webway is normal than the webway is really fast.

How do you know?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Ketara wrote:
Wait. So if the Necrons only have mega slow ark ships and are incapable of warp travel, how did they set up this 'empire of old' in the first place? Or come into any actual serious conflict with the Old Ones? If the Old Ones nuked a planet of the Necrontyr, it would have taken them millennia to find out. And they'd never have been able to even launch an attack on the Old Ones in the first place (it would take millennia to arrive). And what would keep their 'empire' together when warp travel was impossible?

Furthermore, aren't the Tau capable of jumping through the warp using their lenses? Are you telling me Necrons are less advanced than Tau now?

This really is poor writing.

Yeah, 5th ed fluff isn't great. Necrons could use a retcon to fix the retcon.

But the necron ships being "slow" is from the 3rd edition codex....


aladdin hourglass
" border="0" />

Huh, well gak, so it is.
So now I'm perplexed; are inertialess drives the same as the torch ships?
Because there's a contradiction here, as inertialess drives are described as how the necrons get around without using the warp and are apparently fast enough for them to get to where they need to be on time. Maybe the inertialess drives are a later invention, an improvement on the torchship design, when they became full machine and got the C'tan's physics breaking powers. Its not really clear.

That would explain why they introduced the concept of the Dolmen gates to explain that contradiction, which would have been fine if at the same time they didn't give the necrons all these alternatives. Why risk using the webway and using enemy tech if you can just fold time and space and travel that way? I mean, they have access to pocket dimensions, tesseracts and all sorts of weird stuff, why not use those? You'd think someone at GW would have read a Wrinkle in Time.

Technically Dolmen gates aren't actually against 3rd ed lore by themselves, as 3rd ed does say that the C'tan countered the Old One's webway advantage. What is against the old fluff is that the Necrons are suddenly reliant on the warp to get around, when in the past their deal was that the warp was anathema to them and they used other means to travel, which for a 40k race was quite unique and gave them a different flavor. Now everyone uses the warp to some degree as a primary mode of interstellar travel, and that's just lame.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
What is against the old fluff is that the Necrons are suddenly reliant on the warp to get around

I think they are only reliant on it for long distance travel.

Depending on the source material, its stated that it takes 1-40+ years to cross the imperium (75000 lightyears) by warp travel.

In "path of the outcast" it stated that getting from the eastern fringe to the eye of terror (75000+ lightyears) would take "several days" using the webway.

So, lets say that the necrons can use their drives to reach 1/3 the speed of warp drives + access to the webway.

I think it makes perfect sense.

You think it makes sense that the faction that was all about science and not having any space magic needs space magic to function?

I'll stick to my previous opinions thank you.

None of those quotes disprove the inertialess drive being good FTL by the way. They could have easily made the inertialess after becoming Necrons.

pm713 wrote:


None of those quotes disprove the inertialess drive being good FTL by the way.

I never stated that they were bad?

 Andersp90 wrote:

pm713 wrote:


None of those quotes disprove the inertialess drive being good FTL by the way.

I never stated that they were bad?

That is my bad. I thought you did, sorry about that.

The (old)cron and (new)cron fluff isn't 100 % compatible IMHO.

I would suggest to read the backstory of both codices, from AD 2002 and 2011 IIRC, to see where the complaints about using the warp are based on.

We had a Necron codex, giving us soulless Legions of robotic soldiers harvesting for their star gods. Their backstory rooted in the beginnings of the first space farers of the Galaxy and conflicts too ancient to remember...for most of the current species of wh40k. It also had consistent info about their method of travelling.
1. slow stasis ships as necrontyr
2. almost crossing the galaxy in no time as necrons
3. a report of the Imperial Navy about necron fleets in M40.
4. the break into the refuge of the old ones, the web way, to hunt them down.
5. the plan to shut the warp off.

Nothing in this old codex says the Necrons need anyone , except their C`Tan Masters, to expand and to move around. Yes they got this upgrade from their "gods", giving them the edge over their enemies. The worlds of the Necrons aren't put on a Map then. Just mentioned as at the fringes of the Galaxy and located at worlds bereft of life to keep the enslavers off. Who would ask how the Necrons got anywhere if you have them as high tech and fast moving?

Now, when we had the "one author" codices ( may i name who did this one ? ) the whole story was changed to tombkingsinspace ... but also changed how it went and how they act. The "newcrons" are a rewritten version of the "oldcrons" and "making sense" doesn't look like it was a main goal of this codex ( too many failed attempts at beeing funny inside IMHO ).

The Ancient threat of very mobile high tech was the theme of 2002. The Dynasty thing ( maybe too much star gate got you the dolmen gates? ) of 2011 is stuck between "we have wormholes so we can teleport our troops from ships in orbit and other planets into battle" and the idea of dolmen gates which may use "the warp". If your transport doesn't have to endanger the troops inside when it gets shot down, why would you use a technology that does exactly that?

So yes I see the problem people have and rightfully point a finger at.

Maybe the dolmen gates should have been a thing they used in "war in heaven" and got some left to threathen the Eldar of M41. But not the way they move.
I blame him, who shall not be named.

This just needs more details, maybe an update.
Slow stasis ships for robots stinks. They don't need stasis , they are not alive... and they don't need to care about g - force like living beeings have to.

 1hadhq wrote:

2. almost crossing the galaxy in no time as necrons

Where is this mentioned in the 3rd edition codex?