Dolmen Gates

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**dapperbandit**

What are they?

I understand they were used by the Necrons to breach the Webway and destroy the Old Ones in their refuge.

But were they built by the Necrons? Do they still exist?

I would have thought their continued existence would present an enormous threat to the Aeldari and Drukhari

**pm713**

Basically in what I assume was a drunken fit of stupidity GW added Dolmen Gates to newcrons. One of the C'Tan taught Necrons how to make Dolmen Gates which is the only way Necrons have FTL.

But the Webway is a total maze, actively tries to seal off intruders and the Gates themselves are incredibly unstable so they aren't a huge deal.

Honestly I'd ignore them and pretend Necrons just have inertialess drive because Dolmen Gates are evidence of how dumb GW can get.

**dapperbandit**

I was going to say; I just assume Inertialess Drive is still canon and that they aren't somehow still dependant on the gates to achieve FTL

**pm713**

They haven't been mentioned since so it's a bit up in the air.

According to Lexicanum they'd have to use slow stasis ships without Dolmen Gates but that's incredibly dumb so I don't want to trust that without an actual quote from the codex.

**beast_gts**

From Lexicanum

Dolmen Gates are living stone portals used by the Necron race that function by tapping into the Webway.

History
They were constructed during the closing stages of the War in Heaven with their design orchestrated by the C'tan known as Nyadra'zatha. The Burning One had long desired to take his eldtrich fires into the Webway itself and is known to have taught the Necrons how to breach its walls. A series of such devices were constructed which allowed the Necrons to turn the Old Ones' greatest weapon against them, which greatly accelerated their defeat.[1]

Their nature means that they are both unstable and uncontrollable when compared to natural entry points into the Webway. In an unknown way, the Webway even detects breaches into itself by the Dolmen Gates and moves to seal off the infected spur until the danger posed by it passes. Thus, any Necron entry into the Webway must move quickly to reach its destination, otherwise the network itself will bring about their destruction. In the aeons that have passed since the War in Heaven, the Dolmen Gates became lost or abandoned during the Great Sleep or destroyed by the Eldar whilst the Webway itself has become a tangled, broken labyrinth.[1]

The remaining Dolmen Gates only grant access to a small portion of the Webway, with much of the network being sealed by the Eldar to prevent further contamination. Despite this being the case, the immeasurable length of the sundered Webway does allow the Necrons to outpace the modes of travel used by the younger races. As they are bereft of Psykers, the Necrons rely on this method of transportation as they are incapable of Warp travel. Thus, if they were denied the use of the Webway, the Necrons would be forced to make use of slow moving stasis-ships that would doom their civilization to isolation.[1]

Sources
1: Codex: Necrons (5th Edition), pg. 8

**Andersp90**

pm713 wrote:
They haven't been mentioned since so it's a bit up in the air.

Not true.This is from the 8th edition codex:

" border="0" />

**pm713**

Oh good. They doubled down on the stupid to the max policy.

**Andersp90**

pm713 wrote:
Oh good. They doubled down on the stupid to the max policy.

Pretty much every scrap of 40k lore was "stupid" at one point in time until it became "the lore".

40k is just 30+ years of retconns.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Andersp90 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Oh good. They doubled down on the stupid to the max policy.

Pretty much every scrap of 40k lore was "stupid" at one point in time until it became "the lore".

40k is just 30+ years of retconns.

Except this is particularly stupid, as prior to the Dolmen gates the Necrons didn't need to hijack the webway. They had perfectly fine FTL craft that highlighted how advanced they were and that they didn't need space magic bs to get around. Even ignoring that, its been established that the necrons are masters of dimensional manipulation; why not use that instead of using Eldar tech? Its just dumb.
Retcons are crap in general, and the the Dolmen gates are particularly crap.

**pm713**

Andersp90 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Oh good. They doubled down on the stupid to the max policy.

Pretty much every scrap of 40k lore was "stupid" at one point in time until it became "the lore".

40k is just 30+ years of retconns.

Being canon doesn't mean it isn't stupid. We're meant to believe that Necrontyr thought that a galactic war would unite them and somehow they came very close to winning without the ability to travel faster than light. It's incredibly stupid. But is the canon.

**Andersp90**

pm713 wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Oh good. They doubled down on the stupid to the max policy.

Pretty much every scrap of 40k lore was "stupid" at one point in time until it became "the lore".

40k is just 30+ years of retconns.

We're meant to believe that Necrontyr thought that a galactic war would unite them and somehow they came very close to winning without the ability to travel faster than light. It's incredibly stupid.

Yes, its even stated to be the reason why they lost round 1 vs the old ones:

"The war in heaven: The terrible campaigns that followed could fill a library in their own right, but the underlying truth was a simple one: the Necrontyr could never win.Their superior numbers and technologies were constantly outmanoeuvred by the Old Ones’ mastery of the webway portals.In but a span of centuries, the Necrontyr were pushed back until they were little more than an irritation"

That said, its not stated anywhere that the necrons do not have the ability to travel faster than the speed of light - and Im pretty sure they can. Problem is, traveling by the speed of light, it would still take you 16 years just to get to the closet star to earth. Now imagine going from on end of the imperium to the next - it aint happening.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Except this is particularly stupid, as prior to the Dolmen gates the Necrons didn't need to hijack the webway. They had perfectly fine FTL craft that highlighted how advanced they were and that they didn't need space magic bs to get around.

Like I have stated above, the TFL travel has not been retconned. But in a galaxy that is a 100000-160000 light years wide, it dosent matter much.

Even ignoring that, its been established that the necrons are masters of dimensional manipulation; why not use that instead of using Eldar tech? Its just dumb.

Because going from one dimension to another dosent mean that you have the ability to gain distance with it in your own dimension. And clearly, they cant. Even the old ones needed fixed gates and a webway to do so..

**CthuluIsSpy**

Andersp90 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Oh good. They doubled down on the stupid to the max policy.

Pretty much every scrap of 40k lore was "stupid" at one point in time until it became "the lore".

40k is just 30+ years of retconns.

Being canon doesn't mean it isn't stupid. We're meant to believe that Necrontyr thought that a galactic war would unite them and somehow they came very close to winning without the ability to travel faster than light. It's incredibly stupid. But is the canon.

Even ignoring that, its been established that the necrons are masters of dimensional manipulation; why not use that instead of using Eldar tech? Its just dumb.

Because going from one dimension to another dosent mean that you have the ability to gain distance with it in your own dimension. And clearly, they cant. Even the old ones needed fixed gates and a webway to do so...

Pretty sure that's how Deathmarks and Flayed Ones get around. They use dimensional manipulation to pop up where no one expects them.

**Andersp90**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Pretty sure that's how Deathmarks and Flayed Ones get around. They use dimensional manipulation to pop up where no one expects them.

Which is a good example of stupid lore, because it breaks the original lore established in the first nercon codex (3rd edition), right?

**CthuluIsSpy**

Andersp90 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Pretty sure that's how Deathmarks and Flayed Ones get around. They use dimensional manipulation to pop up where no one expects them.

Which is a good example of stupid lore, because it breaks the original lore established in the first nercon codex (3rd edition), right?

No, actually. The 3rd ed codex explicitly stated that Necrons have many ways to teleport, and as such there was a rule that stops chain teleportation. Deathmarks and Flayed Ones pop in and out would actually be in compliance with 3rd ed Necron lore and gameplay. Especially since Flayed Ones had both Deep Strike and Infiltrate. And yes, their 3rd ed Deep Strike was a teleportation; Flayed Ones teleported underneath their targets to ambush them from below, as detailed in their codex entry.

Also, Veil of Darkness. You know, that piece of necron gear that allows the bearer and nearby infantry to instantly teleport somewhere else. Also dates from 3rd ed and I don't see any Dolmen gate stuck onto it.

Necrons never needed the webway to teleport. Its just crap writing.

**Andersp90**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Necrons never needed the webway to teleport. Its just crap writing.

Not to teleport but to TRAVEL. Space marines can teleport too. That dosent mean they have the ability to instantly jump from one end of the universe to the other in an instant.

I have the codex right here. Only two methods of teleportation are mentioned.

" border="0" />

and

create image url online
" border="0" />

They need literal monolith portals to walk though or a vail of darkness.

Remeber, the necrons lost the frist war with the old ones because they couldent match their mobilty (webway portals).

" border="0" />

If the necrons had the ability to instantly teleport an entire army to any planet in the galaxy, that bit of lore wouldent make much sense.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Good thing the original lore gave them really fast ships then.
Back then it was simple - ships physically traveled to orbit, teleport down necrons.

Now its ships go through Dolmen Gates, teleport to planet, teleport down necrons, except Flayed Ones, which can apparently teleport on their own from their own pocket dimension, like Deathmarks. Well, why write in a Dolmen Gate if they wanted the ships to teleport? Why not just have the Necrons use the pocket dimensions that they seem to have access to? Its not good writing.

I'm not against the Dolmen Gate concept in its entirely; being able to breach the webway would explain how the Necrons managed to beat the Old Ones despite not being as mobile. I'm against the Necrons purely relying on the gates for long distance travel, as it doesn't make sense and comes across as GW trying to force drama and limitation where it doesn't belong.

**Andersp90**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Good thing the original lore gave them really fast ships then.
Back then it was simple - ships physically traveled to orbit, teleport down necrons.

There is nothing indicating that they no longer have really fast ships.

Now its ships go through Dolmen Gates, teleport to planet, teleport down necrons, except Flayed Ones, which can apparently teleport on their own from their own pocket dimension, like Deathmarks.

Pocket dimensions were not a thing in the 3rd edition codex.

nh4 chemical formula
" border="0" />

I'm not against the Dolmen Gate concept in its entirely; being able to breach the webway would explain how the Necrons managed to beat the Old Ones despite not being as mobile. I'm against the Necrons purely relying on the gates for long distance travel, as it doesn't make sense and comes across as GW trying to force drama and limitation where it doesn't belong."

It does make sense. Like I said, the milkeyway is biiiiig. Just getting to the closet star to earth would take 1.6 YEARS going 10 times the speed of light. But it would still be a fast ship when flying in-system.

What dosent make sense is the death mark lore. Why bother with transports like ghost arks when you have access to technology that can litterlay make you army appear out of thin air anywhere you wish? And why arm the death marks with rifles? Give them a nuke and have them place it in the middle of the enemy army. GG.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Yeah, Flayed Ones didn't have pocket dimensions in 3rd, but they do in 5th which is where all the stupid happens.

Again, I am against reliance on Dolmen gates and the webway, NOT necrons teleporting or bending space with their own tech, which they were shown capable of in the same edition.

**Andersp90**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, Flayed Ones didn't have pocket dimensions in 3rd, but they do in 5th which is where all the stupid happens.

Again, I am against reliance on Dolmen gates and the webway, NOT necrons teleporting or bending space with their own tech, which they were shown capable of in the same edition.

40k lore makes no sense, and never has. That was my original point.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Andersp90 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, Flayed Ones didn't have pocket dimensions in 3rd, but they do in 5th which is where all the stupid happens.

Again, I am against reliance on Dolmen gates and the webway, NOT necrons teleporting or bending space with their own tech, which they were shown capable of in the same edition.

40k lore makes no sense, and never has. That was my original point.

That's still no excuse for gak writing.
And 40k lore does make sense if you consider internal consistency. The problem is that Necron internal consistency is rubbish. I mean, they have tesseract tech. Why not use that on their ships?

**Andersp90**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, Flayed Ones didn't have pocket dimensions in 3rd, but they do in 5th which is where all the stupid happens.

Again, I am against reliance on Dolmen gates and the webway, NOT necrons teleporting or bending space with their own tech, which they were shown capable of in the same edition.

40k lore makes no sense, and never has. That was my original point.

That's still no excuse for gak writing.
And 40k lore does make sense if you consider internal consistency. The problem is that Necron internal consistency is rubbish. I mean, they have tesseract tech. Why not use that on their ships?

Its all gak writing, and it always has been.

The thousands sons are supersoldiers dressed like faroes from old egypt, and the IG dives around in tanks that looks like something from ww2 etc etc. But it all "makes sense" because it has "always" been like that.

In 20 years time, no one will bat an eye if you moan about cadia blowing up, because is has always been like that.

Like I said, new lore is stupid until it becomes "the lore".

**Mr Nobody**

If Dolmen Gates are stupid, someone should have told the Emperor that when he tried to build his own.

**BrianDavion**

Besides, inertialess drives likely still exist, but you can't build an intergalatic empire on them alone.warp travel and webway travel is simply going to be faster.

**pm713**

Mr Nobody wrote:
If Dolmen Gates are stupid, someone should have told the Emperor that when he tried to build his own.

I could go on a very long talk about exactly that. The Emperor's plan doesn't make sense.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
Besides, inertialess drives likely still exist, but you can't build an intergalatic empire on them alone.warp travel and webway travel is simply going to be faster.

They don't. The codex quote above says without Dolmen gates they'd only have slow stasis ships. So inertialess drives are gone which is weird because they are actually better than Warp travel and at least equal to the Webway.

**CthuluIsSpy**

BrianDavion wrote:
Besides, inertialess drives likely still exist, but you can't build an intergalatic empire on them alone.warp travel and webway travel is simply going to be faster.

If only the Necrons had ways to fold space and time so that they don't need to risk losing their fleets to webway security systems.
I mean, they don't have tesseracts right? Because that would totally allow them to do that

Inertialess Drives didn't stop them from making wide-spanning empire in the previous edition. The webway reliance is a hackneyed attempt to draw up drama where it isn't necessary. Typical of Ward's amateurish nonsense, really.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr Nobody wrote:
If Dolmen Gates are stupid, someone should have told the Emperor that when he tried to build his own.

Did the Emperor have access to dimensional manipulation, FTL drives and the ability to fold time and space? No? Then I guess its not the same sort of thing, now is it?
IIRC, the plan was that he would use the webway to give Humanity a safer method of interstellar travel. Did it work? Well, no because the Palace got flooded by demons, and even if it did work there's still the security systems. But unlike the necrons, he didn't really have the tech to develop any alternatives.

**locarno24**

Mr Nobody wrote:
If Dolmen Gates are stupid, someone should have told the Emperor that when he tried to build his own.

What makes you assume it was built rather than salvaged?

Terra (a) had a big C'tan shard running round on it and (b) had the pariah genome as part of the genetic makeup of the dominant genus. It's quite possible Terra is a former necrontyr world.

**Platuan4th**

pm713 wrote:
Mr Nobody wrote:
If Dolmen Gates are stupid, someone should have told the Emperor that when he tried to build his own.

I could go on a very long talk about exactly that. The Emperor's plan doesn't make sense.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
Besides, inertialess drives likely still exist, but you can't build an intergalatic empire on them alone.warp travel and webway travel is simply going to be faster.

They don't. The codex quote above says without Dolmen gates they'd only have slow stasis ships. So inertialess drives are gone which is weird because they are actually better than Warp travel and at least equal to the Webway.

You understand that slow is a relative term, right? An FTL drive is slow when compared to Warp and Webway travel and is in fact the reason Tau haven't moved beyond a small section of the galaxy. Tau have FTL drives, but it still takes them years to move through the Damocles Gulf because it's a slow method of interstellar travel in the 40K universe.

Necron inertialess drives most likely still exist, but when compared to the use of Dolmen Gates, it's a slow, inefficient method of travel.

**Andersp90**

pm713 wrote:
Mr Nobody wrote:
If Dolmen Gates are stupid, someone should have told the Emperor that when he tried to build his own.

I could go on a very long talk about exactly that. The Emperor's plan doesn't make sense.

His plan was to open up the webway to humanity, eliminating the need for dangerous and slow warp travel. How does that not make any sense?

So inertialess drives are gone which is weird because they are actually better than Warp travel and at least equal to the Webway.

Where is this stated?

**jhe90**

Well they have gates but they might not always be good.

Theres sections of webway breached by deamons, others sealed for various reasons, damaged, unmapped and unmarked.

The only Acurate map may be in thr black library.

Its rather wild, its not been maintained in thousands to tens of thousands of years.... It's not much safer than the warp really!

**Andersp90**

jhe90 wrote:

Its rather wild, its not been maintained in thousands to tens of thousands of years.... It's not much safer than the warp really!

Which is why the emperor had the unifiers build new tunnels for mankind.