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Everywhere except here and my flgs apparently *shrug*

When I talked about free summoning here when it was coming back there were several people that were backing it and chomping at the bit for it to come back without having to pay reserve points for it.

The TGA was full of guys telling people to get ready to git gud because free summoning was perfectly fine and would be great.

I don’t mind the summoning that has its own set of points required to happen. But I can recognize that it CAN get ridiculous!! (Seraphim, Hedonites, Nagash)

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I don’t mind the summoning that has its own set of points required to happen. But I can recognize that it CAN get ridiculous!! (Seraphim, Hedonites, Nagash)

But I can recognize that it CAN get ridiculous!! (Seraphim, Hedonites, Nagash)

get ridiculous!! (Seraphim, Hedonites,

Seraphim

How DARE you defile Warhammer with your non-IP names! It is SeraPHON(tm)! PHON!!

So what is the difference between AoS and w40k as far as armies goes, are the AoS armies cheaper to get, or something like that?

AoS is 90% mele armies, 40k is 95% shooty armies.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I don’t mind the summoning that has its own set of points required to happen. But I can recognize that it CAN get ridiculous!! (Seraphim, Hedonites, Nagash)

But I can recognize that it CAN get ridiculous!! (Seraphim, Hedonites, Nagash)

get ridiculous!! (Seraphim, Hedonites,

Seraphim

How DARE you defile Warhammer with your non-IP names! It is SeraPHON(tm)! PHON!!

Apparently, auto correct has something against Aztec Reptilian Warriors made of light beams. My phone apologizes. I spanked it mercilessly for its act of public indecency.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
AoS is 90% mele armies, 40k is 95% shooty armies.

But army cost, as in money, is more or less the same right?

Reminds me, you may find this helpful:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/773658.page


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I don’t mind the summoning that has its own set of points required to happen. But I can recognize that it CAN get ridiculous!! (Seraphim, Hedonites, Nagash)

But I can recognize that it CAN get ridiculous!! (Seraphim, Hedonites, Nagash)

get ridiculous!! (Seraphim, Hedonites,

Seraphim

How DARE you defile Warhammer with your non-IP names! It is SeraPHON(tm)! PHON!!

Apparently, auto correct has something against Aztec Reptilian Warriors made of light beams. My phone apologizes. I spanked it mercilessly for its act of public indecency.

Very well, I'll call off the tactical assault legal team.

timetowaste85 wrote:The problem with that (as much as Slaanesh is my favorite) is that Slaanesh basically NEEDS a KoS or two. Which are $140 a pop in the USA. Our SC boxes are $90. So we’re talking $450 for 3 SCs and 2 KoSs. Throw in the book, and it’s almost $500. Get it at 20% discount online and still $400.

Assuming without deciding, that's true ('cause I simply don't know, not because I think you're wrong) two KoSs adds $340 CAD (plus HST) to the cost and you have a ca. 3,000pt AoS army (AND a ca. 2,500pt 40K army) for less than $800 CAD (plus HST).

TBH Slaanesh is perfectly decent without Keepers, you just need them to do upper tier stuff.

They generate depravity better plus have healing. Plus great damage compared to other heroes. Very strong choice and the points trend toward undercost by a little (id say about 6%) which isnt OP but highly desired in a min max environment.

Karol wrote:

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
AoS is 90% mele armies, 40k is 95% shooty armies.

But army cost, as in money, is more or less the same right?

Again, I can only speak for Slaanesh, but no it doesn't seem to be.

My Daemons are worth nearly 800pts more in AoS v. 40K, so theoretically (and bear in mind I know very little about AoS and am only speaking about Slaanesh Daemons) a viable AoS army would require fewer minis and less expenditure.

AoS boxes seem to be generally lower-priced than 40K boxes as far as I can tell, but I have no idea how that translates into tabletop points.

Karol wrote:

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
AoS is 90% mele armies, 40k is 95% shooty armies.

But army cost, as in money, is more or less the same right?

more or less yes.
quite some variables between the systems; finecast, plastic, box bundles, elite vs horde, but they are not big variables.

That is sad. So a winning SCE army cost around 600-700$ ?
Do they require any of the big models to be run, or can they just be build with infantry?

Also there are those special spells, everyone is suppose to be running, do people buy the actual boxs to just use 1-2 spells or are there any resin 3ed company versions of them that are cheaper then a box?

Karol wrote:
That is sad. So a winning SCE army cost around 600-700$ ?
Do they require any of the big models to be run, or can they just be build with infantry?

Also there are those special spells, everyone is suppose to be running, do people buy the actual boxs to just use 1-2 spells or are there any resin 3ed company versions of them that are cheaper then a box?

i dont know what a SCE army is at, nor how it should be made as i dont collect them, i just know they have quite alot of box sets where you usualy gets a discount compared to buying the models for induvidualy. however there shouldent be hard to find them on sale, and there is allways 2nd hand armys for sale on ebay.

(i do collect troggoths and my models is retail 500$ for a 2000p casual non turnament army)

600-700 seems a bit high to me. DoK or Fyreslayers could be that bad but I don't see most armies that way.

Make a roster, then go to the GW store and price it out. $600-$700 full retail doesn't seem that too far out of whack to me, but a lot of our guys never buy at full retail.

So the new general handbook is out.

What armies are now good budget armies to play with that are good. Budget armies in the form of money. Complexety of the army is not important, but a high seeling is preffered.

Are night haunts or the sigmaries good and cheap?

No one will know what the powerlists are until about September after larger events have run with it and netlisting has been able to pick up again.

Anything given at this point would be guessing.

I'm guessing the mounted stormcast army will be pretty strong again due to their point drops, especially since evocators and their ilk went from busted undercosted must haves to costed right and therefore not optimal any longer.

FEC are still the go-to here. Cheap and the top army. Skaven Pestilens could be done reasonably cheap as well.

To be fair Flesh Eater Courts and Skaven have yet to receive their points adjustments, which should come sometime this month. I doubt that it will drastically shift there position on the totem-pole but you never know.

 Venerable Ironclad wrote:
To be fair Flesh Eater Courts and Skaven have yet to receive their points adjustments, which should come sometime this month. I doubt that it will drastically shift there position on the totem-pole but you never know.

It's coming this month? I had no idea it was that soon, very excited now to see what they do with them.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Venerable Ironclad wrote:
To be fair Flesh Eater Courts and Skaven have yet to receive their points adjustments, which should come sometime this month. I doubt that it will drastically shift there position on the totem-pole but you never know.

It's coming this month? I had no idea it was that soon, very excited now to see what they do with them.

Yes, from 'The General’s Handbook 2019: Matched Play' article on Warhammer Community:

However, to make sure your Pitched Battles are as balanced as possible, we’ll be releasing an early (and free) points update to the most recent battletomes – for reference, that’s Skaven, Blades of Khorne, Fyreslayers, Gloomspite Gitz and Flesh-eater Courts. Keep an eye out for this – and the General’s Handbook 2019 FAQ – in early July.

So I would expect both to drop sometime next week.

I 1000% expect minor point adjustments like DoK got. It will make it so a handful of ghouls are not taken in the initial FeC force due to some minor points raises, but will not address the summon spam nor the monster batallion issues.

As many have already said, but honestly IDK (Idoneth Deepkin) can be very cheap for a meta army.

7 or 8 boxes of eels, 3 or 4 heroes and 2 ground units and you are done.

King - $40
Soulscryer - $25 (or 2 instead of 8 Eels you take 7 eels)
Tidecaster - $25
($90-115)
Ishlaen Guard x2 - $50 ($100)
Morrsarr guard x5 or x6 ($250-$300)
(350-400)
Thralls - $50
Thralls - $50
($100)
Boats are $40 i would get 1 for sure.

Its about $650, sure that sounds like a lot, but its meta, its effective, its fun models and this is before %15 off, if you are not getting a discount you need to find somewhere that will.

You can make it cheaper if you take a Battalion as well, the Royal Council isnt bad (gives you +3" movement) and that means you need 1 less Eel unit (so 7 Eeels for $50 less).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But as far as cheapest army? You can do a few with ONLY start collecting x4 and they are not "bad" but wont win you any tournaments, like FeC, Skaven, BoC, etc..

BoC is the better one, you get 4 Monsters but they make 2 different ones, so you at least get options, the Ungors and Bestigors are competitive as well, you get 4 and thats 4 Heroes, 4 Monsters, you full battleline, but you can have the Ungors in a 40 man and the Bestigor in 2x10 and 1x20 (which is almost perfect) take one of the Heroes and make it a Shaman on disk (heavy converting sadly).

The BoC is $360 for a perfect 2000pts army (its actually 1900, but you take a battalion for 3-4 drops and you want the extra CP and Relic).

FeC and Skaven is just 1 way to play with very little options, at leas the Skaven one is better than the FeC as well as they have 2 units that can be 2 different units, so taking 4 of them as well like the BoC can net you different units (that act and look differently too), the only problem is, you need a little bit more bodies so you'll want to get another couple boxes of rats, but still for around $450 thats not to bad.

EDIT: Note this is without Endless spells or Terrain for BoC, FeC and Skaven, add another $80 for those, all in all BoC for everything (2k army, endless, terrain, book) is $470.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
As many have already said, but honestly IDK (Idoneth Deepkin) can be very cheap for a meta army.

7 or 8 boxes of eels, 3 or 4 heroes and 2 ground units and you are done.

King - $40
Soulscryer - $25 (or 2 instead of 8 Eels you take 7 eels)
Tidecaster - $25
($90-115)
Ishlaen Guard x2 - $50 ($100)
Morrsarr guard x5 or x6 ($250-$300)
(350-400)
Thralls - $50
Thralls - $50
($100)
Boats are $40 i would get 1 for sure.

Its about $650, sure that sounds like a lot

It is a lot. Especially because you can do this:
King 40
Soulscryer 25
Tidecaster 25
Start Collecting x2 180
Eels x6 300
Boat 40

And have the same thing for $610 plus two Soulrenders.

IMO $600 isnt a lot for a hobby that last 10yrs+ and gives well over 2,000 hours of entertainment.

So if that is a lot to you, then look at it this way, the average person spends 10hrs a week on Netflix, if you are spending $15 then for 2k hours of watching you spent $750 dollars, thats more than the GW models.

But again, i was showing a cheap competitive list, i had BoC for $400 that is with terrain.

Buying a Warhammer army... To a Netflix subscription...

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Buying a Warhammer army... To a Netflix subscription...

Its all money and entertainment, i could have used movies, or working on cars instead. But something else about it, at least your models you can sell, you cant sell the hours of netflix you used.