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Slayer6 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It's easy lock smash capt. Put your stuff 4" behind the screens. 9+4 = 13, so smash cant declare an assault. Its done to me every game.

I just run an Execution Force with an additional Vindicare and Culexus - of course it doesn't hurt to add an Operative Requisition Sanctioned to the mix, just to provide that *little* extra overkill... That way Cpt. Smash is just another target to get his head blown off in some manner or another...

I had a player use him in a 1500pt game a few weeks ago - and I used the above force with an additional Callidus as the ORS. Cpt. Smash didn't make it to the 2nd turn after he appeared. Double-Tap is brutality incarnate.

You can no longer do that.

If a force contains assassins, it cannot use the ORS strat to bring another one.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:

It's an exploitation of CP. When CP cost effectively 0 points and can make 130 point models 1 shot 1000 point models. There is a complete failure of game mechanics.

#1 has to be the +1 to wound army trait. It is clear it scales too hard at the str 8 and str 9 area. Which basically means you wound on 2's. Which is the same thing as having str 16 or 18....Yeah...more than an Imperial knight has with a thunderstrike gauntlet. Beyond idiotic. Their chapter tactic should simply be +1 str - like it always was maybe give them +1 attack on the charge.

#2 is the exploitation of double actions being affected by a buffing you for the phase twice. It should clearly be that in stratagems buffing a unit - it should be stated to only affect one activation per phase. Smash captains aren't the only unit abusing this. It is cearly busted to anyone with common sense though.

Really the issue is why is there a 1000 point model in game of 1750-2000pts anyways. If the enemy model is 200-300 points then the use of the CP becomes less of an issue. Same as strats on Castellan now being less efficient that he is 100pts more.

To kill that 1000 point model likely would have cost 10CP (1 Armory of Baal, 1 Death Visions, 2 Upon Wings, 2 Descent of Angels, 1 Red Rampage, 3 Honor the Chapter). Killing anything less than a knight is not worth it.

I do believe CP has an inherent cost however that cost is dependent on the army that supplies the CP. Guard obviously get it very cheap.

As for your #1 it does scale hard and I think marines should have something that is powerful but not game breaking in most circumstances.

As for #2 I dont disagree but in the circumstances of a smash cap, he would only lose Red Rampage as a buff.

Martel732 wrote:


Uhh... no. BA are already borderline unplayable.

"In the grim darkness of Martel's 40k, there is no victory"

Templar Smash can be done well as Teeth too.

Sigislash:
Teeth/Master Sword- 7 Attacks Base (8 if you pop suffer), hits 6.7 times, rerolls failed hitting another 7.8 times (popping WT once on average, but not unreasonable twice). 9 Wounds. Wounding T6+, 3 times, rerolling failed. 5 times (about 8 damage). Honor of Chapter. Another swing, (15.6 total). Proc’ing WT twice more. 10 Hits. 3.33 wounds reroll 2.22 so 5.55. Another 8 damage or so. For a total of 14 (12 more for Castallen).

Templar Slam, 12 Attacks (total), 8 hit then reroll 2, 9.32. Proc’ing twice. 11.32 hits then wounds 5.65, rerolling failed 2.825 more wounds into 8.48 or 8.5. Mean on average 7 wounds or 22 damage. (Castallen requiring 6 more). A Slamganius for context will do about 23 damage (Castallen requiring 5 more).

Teeth Marshall however lower threshold v knight targets will churn better infantry level for a base 16 Attacks, hit 13.4 reroll failed hit 15.55 (Proc Trait 3). 19 hits. Then 12.33 wounds reroll into 16.77 (or on average 11.18 marines dead.)

Slam in contrast will hit 11.73 then rerolls into functionally 14 hits. Will wound 11.70 and kill about 9.5.

Templar Slam will for context will hit 11.32 wound about 9 times reroll into 11 kill about 9 marines.

In terms of abilities and otherwise sends combat wise they are functionally similar with Templar Slam and Slamganius. While Sigislash is not too shabby and surperior v certain targets. Anything below a knight it will handly murder. And it’s depending on target which one you prefer or versatility thereof. And at certain points (T5) functionally the same.

Then Sigislash vs T3/GeQ will kill 14 Gaudsman while Slam kills 12. Now we get into other aspects.

Templars bring Abhor, innate reroll Charge (50% success rate but no CP)
BA bring Descent, and Wings of Fire (Redeployment and 3d6 charge).

So Templars will bring better field control while BA brings tactical redeployment. In terms of CP investment. M

BA (Not Warlord): 1CP Relic, 1CP Visions, 1CP Rampage (3)
BT (Not Warlord): 1CP Specialist, 1CP War, 0-1CP Relic, 2CP Suffer (4-5)

BA (Warlord): 1CP Visions, 1CP Rampage (2).
BT (Warlord): 1CP Specialist, 2CP Suffer (3).

BT needs to pay on 1CP to unlock Suffer on Cpts while BA needs to spend 1CP per to unlock Rampage. BT have a budget Smash Captain in EChampion who against its preferred target have same output. And doesn’t need spend CP for suffer and good Abhor guy for your backfield. BA have Mephiston whose more expensive, can deny and can fly. But no IV.

For what you want to do? It depends ultimately Board Coverage v Offensive, and targets.

BT's Sigismash can also take the Shield Eternal for much better durability than the Sigislash or Slamguinius variants.