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Mr Morden wrote: I be happy with 8th ed rules for everything that GW makes or had made - including WFB/AOS and vice versa.....#
Biggest want is the beautiful Mechancius FW units to have 8th ed rules !!
Space marines have something, anything in 30k?
Have a "Relic Version!"
Mechanicum, the guys whose entire fluff revolves around the preservation of technology at all costs?
"that stuffs just for 30k lololol"
To be fair they are TERRIBLE at preserving technology.
Hey, you try keeping something working for the entire extent of current human history! How functional is the technology we have from the cavemen?
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
RevlidRas wrote: There is literally no 30k model that couldn't be justified in 40k.
The Adeptus Mechanicus is all about preserving ancient technology – the idea that they just irretrievably and completely lost their entire Heresy-era range of models down the line is clearly absurd, especially considering all the hover-tech and other stuff currently being pumped out by Cawl. It's a flimsy excuse, because the immediate fix is "oh, they found it again".
The same goes for the Loyalist Legions, each of which clearly retains some ancient technology as Relics in their armouries. And in most cases, these models are already represented that way!
Chaos Legions are somewhat trickier, just because they've often changed a great deal or seen their gear become tainted down the millenia – but the overwhelming majority of those models are still entirely serviceable as modern units or gear, especially since so many of them are upgrade packs anyway. In some cases they'd need rules/concept tweaks to represent the modern fluff, but there's no reason modern Night Lords couldn't have chainglaives, modern Alpha Legion couldn't have Headhunters, modern Iron Warriors couldn't bring out a spare Iron Circle robot or two, and modern Thousand Sons couldn't have Rubric Khenetai, just as Death Guard retained their Deathshroud Terminators. When World Eaters inevitably get their own Codex, I will eat my hat if they don't get "modern" Red Butcher Terminators.
The only genuinely questionable 30k models for modern games are named characters – the Loyalists have all died, and the Traitors are almost all mutants or daemons by this point. To which I can only respond that this is a setting where time travel, resurrection, and clones are a thing. Magistus Amon died some time after the Heresy, but he works just fine as a Thousand Sons character for games "set" in that fuzzy intervening period, or if Tzeentch just brought him back to life for giggles. Eidolon's model works just as well for modern Emperor's Children armies as past ones – even if he's mutated massively, his vanity and Slaaneshi illusions could disguise that. Most of the traitor Primarchs are Daemon Princes, but they could easily manifest in a more mortal form. Alpharius is dead, sure, but I Am Alpharius – why stop me from using one of his identical children in a modern game?
I can only conclude that it's just a weird lopsided desire not to cross IP streams between HH and 8e.
I feel this is just FW rabidly defending their own tiny, shallow pond that they want to keep for themselves at all costs, so they ignore all trivially easy stuff that would benefit both parts of the company. Consider the one odd example, 40K unit that should exist in 30K (but doesn't) - Sanguinary Guard. These guys literally wear original 30K armour, this unit plays really important role through BA fluff, their leader, Azkaellon, is second in command of the entire Legion - and yet, for some really brain dead reason, they don't have 30K rules and some garbage, never-existing-before unit was invented just to fill their role. All so that FW doesn't need to help sell yucky GW plastic, it needs to be badly cast resin crap for 10x the price. And it's not even the only example, BA archangels were replaced by crimson paladins (again, unit that never existed before, vs unit that was supposed to keep 30K traditions alive...), etc, etc, nice tech continuity and example of arms maturing were destroyed by inept FW team just so that 30K grav guns had nothing to do with 40K grav guns - otherwise, people will just use cheap plastic bits, and we don't want that, eh?
That's also why we probably will never see Cyraxus despite cool premise of the book - once 30K mechanicum gets direct comparison with 40K admech, players will just count closest plastic equivalent as the FW unit (or so FW appears to think, at least) so better destroy all possibility with the units ever being placed side by side, it doesn't matter if in reality it would brought us a lot of 40K player sales - FW will sooner bite their foot off than will allow people to step outside of exclusive resin circlejerk ran by them...
RevlidRas wrote: There is literally no 30k model that couldn't be justified in 40k.
The Adeptus Mechanicus is all about preserving ancient technology – the idea that they just irretrievably and completely lost their entire Heresy-era range of models down the line is clearly absurd, especially considering all the hover-tech and other stuff currently being pumped out by Cawl. It's a flimsy excuse, because the immediate fix is "oh, they found it again".
The same goes for the Loyalist Legions, each of which clearly retains some ancient technology as Relics in their armouries. And in most cases, these models are already represented that way!
Chaos Legions are somewhat trickier, just because they've often changed a great deal or seen their gear become tainted down the millenia – but the overwhelming majority of those models are still entirely serviceable as modern units or gear, especially since so many of them are upgrade packs anyway. In some cases they'd need rules/concept tweaks to represent the modern fluff, but there's no reason modern Night Lords couldn't have chainglaives, modern Alpha Legion couldn't have Headhunters, modern Iron Warriors couldn't bring out a spare Iron Circle robot or two, and modern Thousand Sons couldn't have Rubric Khenetai, just as Death Guard retained their Deathshroud Terminators. When World Eaters inevitably get their own Codex, I will eat my hat if they don't get "modern" Red Butcher Terminators.
The only genuinely questionable 30k models for modern games are named characters – the Loyalists have all died, and the Traitors are almost all mutants or daemons by this point. To which I can only respond that this is a setting where time travel, resurrection, and clones are a thing. Magistus Amon died some time after the Heresy, but he works just fine as a Thousand Sons character for games "set" in that fuzzy intervening period, or if Tzeentch just brought him back to life for giggles. Eidolon's model works just as well for modern Emperor's Children armies as past ones – even if he's mutated massively, his vanity and Slaaneshi illusions could disguise that. Most of the traitor Primarchs are Daemon Princes, but they could easily manifest in a more mortal form. Alpharius is dead, sure, but I Am Alpharius – why stop me from using one of his identical children in a modern game?
I can only conclude that it's just a weird lopsided desire not to cross IP streams between HH and 8e.
I feel this is just FW rabidly defending their own tiny, shallow pond that they want to keep for themselves at all costs, so they ignore all trivially easy stuff that would benefit both parts of the company. Consider the one odd example, 40K unit that should exist in 30K (but doesn't) - Sanguinary Guard. These guys literally wear original 30K armour, this unit plays really important role through BA fluff, their leader, Azkaellon, is second in command of the entire Legion - and yet, for some really brain dead reason, they don't have 30K rules and some garbage, never-existing-before unit was invented just to fill their role. All so that FW doesn't need to help sell yucky GW plastic, it needs to be badly cast resin crap for 10x the price. And it's not even the only example, BA archangels were replaced by crimson paladins (again, unit that never existed before, vs unit that was supposed to keep 30K traditions alive...), etc, etc, nice tech continuity and example of arms maturing were destroyed by inept FW team just so that 30K grav guns had nothing to do with 40K grav guns - otherwise, people will just use cheap plastic bits, and we don't want that, eh?
That's also why we probably will never see Cyraxus despite cool premise of the book - once 30K mechanicum gets direct comparison with 40K admech, players will just count closest plastic equivalent as the FW unit (or so FW appears to think, at least) so better destroy all possibility with the units ever being placed side by side, it doesn't matter if in reality it would brought us a lot of 40K player sales - FW will sooner bite their foot off than will allow people to step outside of exclusive resin circlejerk ran by them...
I don't blame Forge World for this, I blame the people who buy Forge World stuff. Forge World is, and always has been for rich people and their rich kids. Anyone else paying those kinds of prices must be insane!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/06/25 02:16:08
RevlidRas wrote: There is literally no 30k model that couldn't be justified in 40k.
The Adeptus Mechanicus is all about preserving ancient technology – the idea that they just irretrievably and completely lost their entire Heresy-era range of models down the line is clearly absurd, especially considering all the hover-tech and other stuff currently being pumped out by Cawl. It's a flimsy excuse, because the immediate fix is "oh, they found it again".
The same goes for the Loyalist Legions, each of which clearly retains some ancient technology as Relics in their armouries. And in most cases, these models are already represented that way!
Chaos Legions are somewhat trickier, just because they've often changed a great deal or seen their gear become tainted down the millenia – but the overwhelming majority of those models are still entirely serviceable as modern units or gear, especially since so many of them are upgrade packs anyway. In some cases they'd need rules/concept tweaks to represent the modern fluff, but there's no reason modern Night Lords couldn't have chainglaives, modern Alpha Legion couldn't have Headhunters, modern Iron Warriors couldn't bring out a spare Iron Circle robot or two, and modern Thousand Sons couldn't have Rubric Khenetai, just as Death Guard retained their Deathshroud Terminators. When World Eaters inevitably get their own Codex, I will eat my hat if they don't get "modern" Red Butcher Terminators.
The only genuinely questionable 30k models for modern games are named characters – the Loyalists have all died, and the Traitors are almost all mutants or daemons by this point. To which I can only respond that this is a setting where time travel, resurrection, and clones are a thing. Magistus Amon died some time after the Heresy, but he works just fine as a Thousand Sons character for games "set" in that fuzzy intervening period, or if Tzeentch just brought him back to life for giggles. Eidolon's model works just as well for modern Emperor's Children armies as past ones – even if he's mutated massively, his vanity and Slaaneshi illusions could disguise that. Most of the traitor Primarchs are Daemon Princes, but they could easily manifest in a more mortal form. Alpharius is dead, sure, but I Am Alpharius – why stop me from using one of his identical children in a modern game?
I can only conclude that it's just a weird lopsided desire not to cross IP streams between HH and 8e.
I feel this is just FW rabidly defending their own tiny, shallow pond that they want to keep for themselves at all costs, so they ignore all trivially easy stuff that would benefit both parts of the company. Consider the one odd example, 40K unit that should exist in 30K (but doesn't) - Sanguinary Guard. These guys literally wear original 30K armour, this unit plays really important role through BA fluff, their leader, Azkaellon, is second in command of the entire Legion - and yet, for some really brain dead reason, they don't have 30K rules and some garbage, never-existing-before unit was invented just to fill their role. All so that FW doesn't need to help sell yucky GW plastic, it needs to be badly cast resin crap for 10x the price. And it's not even the only example, BA archangels were replaced by crimson paladins (again, unit that never existed before, vs unit that was supposed to keep 30K traditions alive...), etc, etc, nice tech continuity and example of arms maturing were destroyed by inept FW team just so that 30K grav guns had nothing to do with 40K grav guns - otherwise, people will just use cheap plastic bits, and we don't want that, eh?
That's also why we probably will never see Cyraxus despite cool premise of the book - once 30K mechanicum gets direct comparison with 40K admech, players will just count closest plastic equivalent as the FW unit (or so FW appears to think, at least) so better destroy all possibility with the units ever being placed side by side, it doesn't matter if in reality it would brought us a lot of 40K player sales - FW will sooner bite their foot off than will allow people to step outside of exclusive resin circlejerk ran by them...
I don't blame Forge World for this, I blame the people who buy Forge World stuff. Forge World is, and always has been for rich people and their rich kids. Anyone else paying those kinds of prices must be insane!
I just buy the rules and make suitable proxies or Counts As models for what I want.
RevlidRas wrote: There is literally no 30k model that couldn't be justified in 40k.
The Adeptus Mechanicus is all about preserving ancient technology – the idea that they just irretrievably and completely lost their entire Heresy-era range of models down the line is clearly absurd, especially considering all the hover-tech and other stuff currently being pumped out by Cawl. It's a flimsy excuse, because the immediate fix is "oh, they found it again".
The same goes for the Loyalist Legions, each of which clearly retains some ancient technology as Relics in their armouries. And in most cases, these models are already represented that way!
Chaos Legions are somewhat trickier, just because they've often changed a great deal or seen their gear become tainted down the millenia – but the overwhelming majority of those models are still entirely serviceable as modern units or gear, especially since so many of them are upgrade packs anyway. In some cases they'd need rules/concept tweaks to represent the modern fluff, but there's no reason modern Night Lords couldn't have chainglaives, modern Alpha Legion couldn't have Headhunters, modern Iron Warriors couldn't bring out a spare Iron Circle robot or two, and modern Thousand Sons couldn't have Rubric Khenetai, just as Death Guard retained their Deathshroud Terminators. When World Eaters inevitably get their own Codex, I will eat my hat if they don't get "modern" Red Butcher Terminators.
The only genuinely questionable 30k models for modern games are named characters – the Loyalists have all died, and the Traitors are almost all mutants or daemons by this point. To which I can only respond that this is a setting where time travel, resurrection, and clones are a thing. Magistus Amon died some time after the Heresy, but he works just fine as a Thousand Sons character for games "set" in that fuzzy intervening period, or if Tzeentch just brought him back to life for giggles. Eidolon's model works just as well for modern Emperor's Children armies as past ones – even if he's mutated massively, his vanity and Slaaneshi illusions could disguise that. Most of the traitor Primarchs are Daemon Princes, but they could easily manifest in a more mortal form. Alpharius is dead, sure, but I Am Alpharius – why stop me from using one of his identical children in a modern game?
I can only conclude that it's just a weird lopsided desire not to cross IP streams between HH and 8e.
I feel this is just FW rabidly defending their own tiny, shallow pond that they want to keep for themselves at all costs, so they ignore all trivially easy stuff that would benefit both parts of the company. Consider the one odd example, 40K unit that should exist in 30K (but doesn't) - Sanguinary Guard. These guys literally wear original 30K armour, this unit plays really important role through BA fluff, their leader, Azkaellon, is second in command of the entire Legion - and yet, for some really brain dead reason, they don't have 30K rules and some garbage, never-existing-before unit was invented just to fill their role. All so that FW doesn't need to help sell yucky GW plastic, it needs to be badly cast resin crap for 10x the price. And it's not even the only example, BA archangels were replaced by crimson paladins (again, unit that never existed before, vs unit that was supposed to keep 30K traditions alive...), etc, etc, nice tech continuity and example of arms maturing were destroyed by inept FW team just so that 30K grav guns had nothing to do with 40K grav guns - otherwise, people will just use cheap plastic bits, and we don't want that, eh?
That's also why we probably will never see Cyraxus despite cool premise of the book - once 30K mechanicum gets direct comparison with 40K admech, players will just count closest plastic equivalent as the FW unit (or so FW appears to think, at least) so better destroy all possibility with the units ever being placed side by side, it doesn't matter if in reality it would brought us a lot of 40K player sales - FW will sooner bite their foot off than will allow people to step outside of exclusive resin circlejerk ran by them...
it might also be FW minimizing confusion, as a 30k era Sanguinary guard is likely have be differant from 40k in composition. etc
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Necromunda gangs could easily be seen pressed into service as PDF... shouldn't they have 40k rules?
Imperial guard infantry squads. Its what a bunch of gangers look like when they no longer live in a factory city producing weapons, drugs and steroids. Lasguns can be recharged in the field from a variety of power sources, plasmacannons and shotcannons less so.
Problem with introducing a gang squad (which was done in Codex Armageddon) is that its basically an infantry squad with more special weapons and plasmacannon access. It wouldnt add much to the game imo. Doesn't mean there shouldn't be rules.
I'd go with open play/ narrative play 40k rules for every model they've produced. Quarantining them out of matched play sends the right message- these are not entirely legitimate rules.
Your Fabius Bile led army of Primarch clones makes a great narrative end game for your campaign but you wouldn't want to bring it to pickup games.
Problem with introducing a gang squad (which was done in Codex Armageddon) is that its basically an infantry squad with more special weapons and plasmacannon access. It wouldnt add much to the game imo. Doesn't mean there shouldn't be rules.
Add a minor special rule and you have half the super special "unique" marine units.
Horus was cloned once - someone could do it again.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
People need to remember the fluff. Anything can come out of the warp. Why not a fleet or army from the past. On a practical note GW originally made models first then worried about rules and their consequences later. It seems they haven't changed much since the 1980's. And a side note there was a feral ork army list for 40k. It was published in one of the old Chapter Approved compendiums. The earliest edition of 40k you could use both fantasy and 40k models. If we stifle creativity we will have to wait another 20 years before we get another ork warbuggy.
60PL 
12PL 
