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Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





 Xenomancers wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Fw malcador, the bigger leman russ that ain't even as capable as a leman but costs more then double of it.

Vanquishers.

Raptors.

Raptors in host raptoral can have a 7 inch charge that doesn't allow overwatch. In black legion they can get on demand +1 attack and fight twice if they are korn with reroll hits. Realistically that can do a ton of damage. Most importantly though. They can stop overwatch for the rest of your army...Think...korn bezerkers trying to charge a tau sept battle line. That is an auto win condition.

Vanquishers are still better than basically every space marine tank option. They just are worse than battle cannons.

not sure what a malcadore is. Did you mean macharius heavy tank? The model with steal behemoth and 22 wounds with a 2d6 d6 damage battle cannon? Yeah it's not great but it is better than a LR. It is tougher and has much higher damage potential. You can get it hitting on 3's a number of ways. It can shoot and fall back - it can also shoot while locked in combat. LR gets shut off by a Gretchen.


No Raptors CAN NOT IGNORE OVERWATCH, even in raptorial host. They also can't get on demand +1 attack for beeing BL. I seriously doubt you have read vigilus Ablaze at this point. what you get is 2" more charge range if you are within 6 " of your warlord.

A vnquisher has 2 shots on BS 4+ that do less damage on average than a BC. But it pays more. Come again?

A MAlcador is this thing: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-BE/Malcador-with-Battle-Cannon
It has a single BC, it costs baseline 190 without the BC. It has 4 W more then a Leman russ. It can't shoot twice, it has not steel behemoth. In a word. It's gak at the pricepoint of a Landraider, infact i would probably chose a landraider of any variation before i would chose a malcador ruleswise.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 flandarz wrote:
Absolute worst choice to spend points on? The Mek Workshop. Hands down, conversation is over, this is the champion.
Sounds like a buffed forgeshrine.
   
Made in gb
Irked Necron Immortal




Necron Obelisk.

Monolith is bad for it's points, but it's not a patch on the Obelisk. 380 points of pure gak, even by Necron codex standards.
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Macon, GA

FW is full of terribad units, so the true winner is probably something from one of the IA indexes.

The landraider isn't even unusually bad. It's expensive, but has the rules to work both as a transport and gunship.

I'd rather have one landraider than the equivalent points in Grey Knight Purifiers for damn sure.

My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 21,000pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Teln wrote:
Bharring wrote:
Received new rules:
-It must not be bigger than a "normal" sized unit - as those bigger models are priced out of the game.
-It must not be cheaper than a Land Raider - as you can more easily absorb the cost.
-It must not be FW, as those aren't as well known.
-It must be Imperium. Reasons not given, just stated as obvious.

I'm not making this up.


Wow, look at those goalposts move!

Yeah, that's why I dropped out of the question.

The question's been answered by over a dozen choices that seem broadly accepted as worse.

This just devolved into further redesigning the question once a person has committed to the answer.
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

I'll nominate the DE HQs - especially the Archon and Succubus.

Archons:
- Vastly overcosted for what they bring (they're about on par with a Canoness, yet cost ~25pts more).
- Gimmicky, unreliable save and no longer has any option to swap it out for a basic 4++.
- No mobility options beyond a transport.
- Can't ride in a Venom with anything except Court of the Archon or other HQs due to lack of space and stupid minimum squad sizes.
- If they ride in a Raider, then you can't take 2 5-man squads with them and 9-man units lose out on a special weapon and a heavy weapon.
- Very poor melee ability, doubly so for an HQ that just lost it's only decent shooting weapon.
- Passable ranged ability . . . but only if you use an Index (i.e. non-Codex) option.
- 0 synergy with his own subfaction.
- 0 ability to buff other subfactions.
- Worthless aura that's completely incompatible with the entire playstyle of DE.
- As mentioned above, the Archon has no mobility option outside of a transport. However, his aura isn't allowed to extend outside of a transport.
- What's more, other Kabal units want to be in transports as well, and even if the Archon is on foot his aura still isn't allowed to affect units inside nearby transports.
- The Archon's aura doesn't even affect units inside his own transport.
- Hell, the Archon can't even buff *himself* when inside a transport. This, I remind you, from the leader of a faction that is supposed to have trained for millennia in the art of fighting from transports.
- Even outside of a transport, the Archon's aura is completely useless on his own Court.

Succubi:
- Dedicated melee HQ... yet has the fewest attacks of our HQs.
- In spite of being a melee HQ, her melee presence is laughably bad - not least because of how horrendously awful the Glaive is. Sorry but 4 attacks at S5 AP-3 with a miserably 1 damage is not scaring anyone. And to make matters worse, GW thought this weapon so unbelievably powerful that it needed a -1 to hit. That's how much they hate the idea of our HQs being even remotely good.
- Hope you're playing Red Grief so that you can actually access the only worthwhile melee weapon for your melee HQ. Also, just to reiterate this point, I think it says something about the quality of our melee weapons that a Power Fist is worthy of being an artefact.
- No mobility options beyond a transport.
- Can't ride in a Venom with anything except Court of the Archon or other HQs due to lack of space.
- If they ride in a Raider, then you can't take 2 5-man squads with them and 9-man units lose out on at least one special weapon.
- Piddling aura.
- As with the Archon, has no ability to buff units outside of her subfaction.
- However, she is also unable to buff some units within her subfaction - namely Beasts (incidentally, the only fast unit she could potentially keep up with).
- Because of aforementioned lack of mobility, isn't able to keep up with Hellions or Reavers to buff them.

And what makes these so much worse is that they're mandatory. For as godawful as Land Raiders are, Marine players at least have the option of ignoring them entirely. DE players don't have that luxury because these two are the only available HQs for Kabal and Cult armies, respectively (outside of Drazhar, who somehow manages to be even worse). A Kabal Battalion has to include two of the useless bastards.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in gb
Sword-Wielding Bloodletter of Khorne




Spoiler:
 vipoid wrote:
I'll nominate the DE HQs - especially the Archon and Succubus.

Archons:
- Vastly overcosted for what they bring (they're about on par with a Canoness, yet cost ~25pts more).
- Gimmicky, unreliable save and no longer has any option to swap it out for a basic 4++.
- No mobility options beyond a transport.
- Can't ride in a Venom with anything except Court of the Archon or other HQs due to lack of space and stupid minimum squad sizes.
- If they ride in a Raider, then you can't take 2 5-man squads with them and 9-man units lose out on a special weapon and a heavy weapon.
- Very poor melee ability, doubly so for an HQ that just lost it's only decent shooting weapon.
- Passable ranged ability . . . but only if you use an Index (i.e. non-Codex) option.
- 0 synergy with his own subfaction.
- 0 ability to buff other subfactions.
- Worthless aura that's completely incompatible with the entire playstyle of DE.
- As mentioned above, the Archon has no mobility option outside of a transport. However, his aura isn't allowed to extend outside of a transport.
- What's more, other Kabal units want to be in transports as well, and even if the Archon is on foot his aura still isn't allowed to affect units inside nearby transports.
- The Archon's aura doesn't even affect units inside his own transport.
- Hell, the Archon can't even buff *himself* when inside a transport. This, I remind you, from the leader of a faction that is supposed to have trained for millennia in the art of fighting from transports.
- Even outside of a transport, the Archon's aura is completely useless on his own Court.

Succubi:
- Dedicated melee HQ... yet has the fewest attacks of our HQs.
- In spite of being a melee HQ, her melee presence is laughably bad - not least because of how horrendously awful the Glaive is. Sorry but 4 attacks at S5 AP-3 with a miserably 1 damage is not scaring anyone. And to make matters worse, GW thought this weapon so unbelievably powerful that it needed a -1 to hit. That's how much they hate the idea of our HQs being even remotely good.
- Hope you're playing Red Grief so that you can actually access the only worthwhile melee weapon for your melee HQ. Also, just to reiterate this point, I think it says something about the quality of our melee weapons that a Power Fist is worthy of being an artefact.
- No mobility options beyond a transport.
- Can't ride in a Venom with anything except Court of the Archon or other HQs due to lack of space.
- If they ride in a Raider, then you can't take 2 5-man squads with them and 9-man units lose out on at least one special weapon.
- Piddling aura.
- As with the Archon, has no ability to buff units outside of her subfaction.
- However, she is also unable to buff some units within her subfaction - namely Beasts (incidentally, the only fast unit she could potentially keep up with).
- Because of aforementioned lack of mobility, isn't able to keep up with Hellions or Reavers to buff them.

And what makes these so much worse is that they're mandatory. For as godawful as Land Raiders are, Marine players at least have the option of ignoring them entirely. DE players don't have that luxury because these two are the only available HQs for Kabal and Cult armies, respectively (outside of Drazhar, who somehow manages to be even worse). A Kabal Battalion has to include two of the useless bastards.



Holy gak, I take back my suggestion of Spore Mines, I think you'd be better off WITH the equiv points of mines than those hq options!
I knew they were bad, but with no local DE players I've not faced any in 8th... Damn! It makes me feel better about my Tervigon!
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





DE HQs: Mandatory *and* limited by Rule of 3.

You can't take too many Kabal detatchments because you can only have 3 Archons.
   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





Dark eldar hq are also some of the units that got hit hardest from gw curbing options....

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I already gave like 12 things from codex BA alone in the other thread.

Lascannons that ignore the move penalty that can't be trivially removed like a dev squad are far from the worst thing in marine arsenal.

Sorry, DISCOUNTED lascannons. The lascannon held by the T4 dum dum is full price.

Normally, I chalk up Xenos as an autoloss, but the limitation on doom does help this thing quite a bit I'm finding.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/07/02 18:54:54


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Not Online!!! wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Fw malcador, the bigger leman russ that ain't even as capable as a leman but costs more then double of it.

Vanquishers.

Raptors.

Raptors in host raptoral can have a 7 inch charge that doesn't allow overwatch. In black legion they can get on demand +1 attack and fight twice if they are korn with reroll hits. Realistically that can do a ton of damage. Most importantly though. They can stop overwatch for the rest of your army...Think...korn bezerkers trying to charge a tau sept battle line. That is an auto win condition.

Vanquishers are still better than basically every space marine tank option. They just are worse than battle cannons.

not sure what a malcadore is. Did you mean macharius heavy tank? The model with steal behemoth and 22 wounds with a 2d6 d6 damage battle cannon? Yeah it's not great but it is better than a LR. It is tougher and has much higher damage potential. You can get it hitting on 3's a number of ways. It can shoot and fall back - it can also shoot while locked in combat. LR gets shut off by a Gretchen.


No Raptors CAN NOT IGNORE OVERWATCH, even in raptorial host. They also can't get on demand +1 attack for beeing BL. I seriously doubt you have read vigilus Ablaze at this point. what you get is 2" more charge range if you are within 6 " of your warlord.

A vnquisher has 2 shots on BS 4+ that do less damage on average than a BC. But it pays more. Come again?

A MAlcador is this thing: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-BE/Malcador-with-Battle-Cannon
It has a single BC, it costs baseline 190 without the BC. It has 4 W more then a Leman russ. It can't shoot twice, it has not steel behemoth. In a word. It's gak at the pricepoint of a Landraider, infact i would probably chose a landraider of any variation before i would chose a malcador ruleswise.

Sorry ment warptalons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 vipoid wrote:
I'll nominate the DE HQs - especially the Archon and Succubus.

Archons:
- Vastly overcosted for what they bring (they're about on par with a Canoness, yet cost ~25pts more).
- Gimmicky, unreliable save and no longer has any option to swap it out for a basic 4++.
- No mobility options beyond a transport.
- Can't ride in a Venom with anything except Court of the Archon or other HQs due to lack of space and stupid minimum squad sizes.
- If they ride in a Raider, then you can't take 2 5-man squads with them and 9-man units lose out on a special weapon and a heavy weapon.
- Very poor melee ability, doubly so for an HQ that just lost it's only decent shooting weapon.
- Passable ranged ability . . . but only if you use an Index (i.e. non-Codex) option.
- 0 synergy with his own subfaction.
- 0 ability to buff other subfactions.
- Worthless aura that's completely incompatible with the entire playstyle of DE.
- As mentioned above, the Archon has no mobility option outside of a transport. However, his aura isn't allowed to extend outside of a transport.
- What's more, other Kabal units want to be in transports as well, and even if the Archon is on foot his aura still isn't allowed to affect units inside nearby transports.
- The Archon's aura doesn't even affect units inside his own transport.
- Hell, the Archon can't even buff *himself* when inside a transport. This, I remind you, from the leader of a faction that is supposed to have trained for millennia in the art of fighting from transports.
- Even outside of a transport, the Archon's aura is completely useless on his own Court.

Succubi:
- Dedicated melee HQ... yet has the fewest attacks of our HQs.
- In spite of being a melee HQ, her melee presence is laughably bad - not least because of how horrendously awful the Glaive is. Sorry but 4 attacks at S5 AP-3 with a miserably 1 damage is not scaring anyone. And to make matters worse, GW thought this weapon so unbelievably powerful that it needed a -1 to hit. That's how much they hate the idea of our HQs being even remotely good.
- Hope you're playing Red Grief so that you can actually access the only worthwhile melee weapon for your melee HQ. Also, just to reiterate this point, I think it says something about the quality of our melee weapons that a Power Fist is worthy of being an artefact.
- No mobility options beyond a transport.
- Can't ride in a Venom with anything except Court of the Archon or other HQs due to lack of space.
- If they ride in a Raider, then you can't take 2 5-man squads with them and 9-man units lose out on at least one special weapon.
- Piddling aura.
- As with the Archon, has no ability to buff units outside of her subfaction.
- However, she is also unable to buff some units within her subfaction - namely Beasts (incidentally, the only fast unit she could potentially keep up with).
- Because of aforementioned lack of mobility, isn't able to keep up with Hellions or Reavers to buff them.

And what makes these so much worse is that they're mandatory. For as godawful as Land Raiders are, Marine players at least have the option of ignoring them entirely. DE players don't have that luxury because these two are the only available HQs for Kabal and Cult armies, respectively (outside of Drazhar, who somehow manages to be even worse). A Kabal Battalion has to include two of the useless bastards.

I don't have this problem with my archons. They tend to pull well above their weight and since I play flayed skull they don't even need their buff - they just function as tarpit units. 2++ save can tarpit really well. Plus my warlord arhcon becomes a superbeast with soultraps and WL trait and jihn blade.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/02 20:49:52


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





So contenders for "Worst in game", even with the increased stipulations (So Imperial, nothing FW that's notably overpriced, nothing from Index armies, nothing cheap, etc):
-Drop Pod
-Vindicator
-Deathstrikes
-Malcador
-Macharius
-Defense Line

I think Deathstrikes or the Defense Line are winning. Unsure which.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/02 21:03:36


 
   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Bharring wrote:
So contenders for "Worst in game", even with the increased stipulations (So Imperial, nothing FW that's notably overpriced, nothing from Index armies, nothing cheap, etc):
-Drop Pod
-Vindicator
-Deathstrikes
-Malcador
-Macharius
-Defense Line

I think Deathstrikes or the Defense Line are winning. Unsure which.


Drop Pod and Vindicator at least bring some solid niche use cases. I can't think of a use for Deathstrikes outside of extremely forced scenarios.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





The vindicator has a niche case?

Altough they dropped in price i am unsure where you fond that, or am i missing something.


I'd also like to add FW index armies.
Especially the human variation.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/02 21:18:16


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Deathstrike totally the worst. When you have a rule that literally states you probably wont do anything ALL game you get the win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not Online!!! wrote:
The vindicator has a niche case?

Altough they dropped in price i am unsure where you fond that, or am i missing something.

3d3 mortal wound splash damage stratagem....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/02 21:18:37


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





 Xenomancers wrote:
Deathstrike totally the worst. When you have a rule that literally states you probably wont do anything ALL game you get the win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not Online!!! wrote:
The vindicator has a niche case?

Altough they dropped in price i am unsure where you fond that, or am i missing something.

3d3 mortal wound splash damage stratagem....


Ahh... missed that.

Altough meh, i can get a sorcerer for the sme points that does the same and more.


Ohh and i forgot the best thing to add to the list: Eldar corsairs, literally illegal to field now thanks to the battlebrothers FAQ. in matched play.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Not Online!!! wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Deathstrike totally the worst. When you have a rule that literally states you probably wont do anything ALL game you get the win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not Online!!! wrote:
The vindicator has a niche case?

Altough they dropped in price i am unsure where you fond that, or am i missing something.

3d3 mortal wound splash damage stratagem....


Ahh... missed that.

Altough meh, i can get a sorcerer for the sme points that does the same and more.


Ohh and i forgot the best thing to add to the list: Eldar corsairs, literally illegal to field now thanks to the battlebrothers FAQ. in matched play.

Being illegal basically makes them ineligible for this list. Technically a psyker can cast infernal gateway. However. Infernal gateway will alway target the closest MODEL and only does d3's. the vindi stratagem lets you pick a point and allows you to hit every unit withing 3" of that point for 3d3 on a 4+.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/02 21:26:04


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Xenomancers wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Deathstrike totally the worst. When you have a rule that literally states you probably wont do anything ALL game you get the win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not Online!!! wrote:
The vindicator has a niche case?

Altough they dropped in price i am unsure where you fond that, or am i missing something.

3d3 mortal wound splash damage stratagem....


Ahh... missed that.

Altough meh, i can get a sorcerer for the sme points that does the same and more.


Ohh and i forgot the best thing to add to the list: Eldar corsairs, literally illegal to field now thanks to the battlebrothers FAQ. in matched play.

Being illegal basically makes them ineligible for this list. Technically a psyker can cast infernal gateway. However. Infernal gateway will alway target the closest MODEL and only does d3's. the vindi stratagem lets you pick a point and allows you to hit every unit withing 3" of that point for 3d3 on a 4+.

They aren't illegal.

First, when BattleBrothers first came out, you could still take them in Aux slots. So you have 3 squads of poorly armed GEQ at 2000 points (because of 3CP). You could have more Land Raiders than Corsair squads...
More recently, though, in certain cases you can take a Corsairs detatchment with 0 HQ, although it gains 0 command benefits. So you're taking poorly armed GEQ and getting no CP from it.

Having no legal way to be fielded would shoot a unit to the *top* of the 'epitome of bad' list, if your metric is how much good a unit does for you. But there are legal ways to field Corsairs. They're just terrible.

That said, them being discounted because they're so bad - like a lot of other options - kinda makes this conversation silly.
   
Made in us
Cog in the Machine




Washington, DC

I think Assault Marines are up there.

Take the already terrible tactical marine stat line, make them a dedicated 'assault' unit, but only give them 1 attack, and remove obsec.

#dontbeatony

3500+
(Raven Guard) 7000+
(Scions) 1500+ 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Bharring wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Deathstrike totally the worst. When you have a rule that literally states you probably wont do anything ALL game you get the win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not Online!!! wrote:
The vindicator has a niche case?

Altough they dropped in price i am unsure where you fond that, or am i missing something.

3d3 mortal wound splash damage stratagem....


Ahh... missed that.

Altough meh, i can get a sorcerer for the sme points that does the same and more.


Ohh and i forgot the best thing to add to the list: Eldar corsairs, literally illegal to field now thanks to the battlebrothers FAQ. in matched play.

Being illegal basically makes them ineligible for this list. Technically a psyker can cast infernal gateway. However. Infernal gateway will alway target the closest MODEL and only does d3's. the vindi stratagem lets you pick a point and allows you to hit every unit withing 3" of that point for 3d3 on a 4+.

They aren't illegal.

First, when BattleBrothers first came out, you could still take them in Aux slots. So you have 3 squads of poorly armed GEQ at 2000 points (because of 3CP). You could have more Land Raiders than Corsair squads...
More recently, though, in certain cases you can take a Corsairs detatchment with 0 HQ, although it gains 0 command benefits. So you're taking poorly armed GEQ and getting no CP from it.

Having no legal way to be fielded would shoot a unit to the *top* of the 'epitome of bad' list, if your metric is how much good a unit does for you. But there are legal ways to field Corsairs. They're just terrible.

That said, them being discounted because they're so bad - like a lot of other options - kinda makes this conversation silly.
I think it's more along the lines of units not to be taken seriously.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





 Valentine009 wrote:
I think Assault Marines are up there.

Take the already terrible tactical marine stat line, make them a dedicated 'assault' unit, but only give them 1 attack, and remove obsec.

So basically raptors.


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
Made in us
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant






Not Online!!! wrote:
 Valentine009 wrote:
I think Assault Marines are up there.

Take the already terrible tactical marine stat line, make them a dedicated 'assault' unit, but only give them 1 attack, and remove obsec.

So basically raptors.



Can't raptors take 2 special weapons in a squad? I mean it's probably not worth it but it's more than what assault marines have
   
Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





Ohio

 fraser1191 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Valentine009 wrote:
I think Assault Marines are up there.

Take the already terrible tactical marine stat line, make them a dedicated 'assault' unit, but only give them 1 attack, and remove obsec.

So basically raptors.



Can't raptors take 2 special weapons in a squad? I mean it's probably not worth it but it's more than what assault marines have

Yes they can take 2 special weapons.
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Cobleskill

Ah Space Marines, complaining about having the only Superheavy available in normal games for 5 editions of the game.

'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!' 
   
Made in se
Smokin' Skorcha Driver




Sweden

Land speeders and drop pods are worse

Brutal, but kunning!  
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




Stormtalons imao are far worst than a LR. Almost 195 points for just an assault canon and 2 las canons in a platform that get vaporized with bolter fire or any medium strength weapon.

Is a horrible choice for any imperium army and, internal and external, really poorly balanced.
   
Made in gb
Irked Necron Immortal





 Xenomancers wrote:
I don't have this problem with my archons.


Really?

Having read the above poster's comment, would you care to name the page on which I can find an Archon who can take a jetbike or whose aura works into/out of transports?


 Xenomancers wrote:
They tend to pull well above their weight


Lucky you. My Archons could cost 40pts and I still couldn't name a game where one pulled his weight.


 Xenomancers wrote:
and since I play flayed skull they don't even need their buff


What about those of us who don't play Flayed Skull? or who would like to reroll 1s on weapons other than Splinter Rifles?


 Xenomancers wrote:
they just function as tarpit units. 2++ save can tarpit really well.


I have to disagree entirely on this point. A T3 model who relies on a 2++ is about as unreliable a tarpit as you can get. Maybe if you rolled all the saves together, but since you're forced to roll them one at a time it really doesn't take much for the field to fail and then the Archon's number is up.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Plus my warlord arhcon becomes a superbeast with soultraps and WL trait and jihn blade.


And it doesn't bother you that you have to invest a Warlord Trait, Artefact and Stratagem into your HQ just to make him remotely functional in his role?
   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





And it doesn't bother you that you have to invest a Warlord Trait, Artefact and Stratagem into your HQ just to make him remotely functional in his role?


i mean CSM suffer from the same thing. Have the correct combination and the HQ's are great. (lord discordant f.e)

have not the correct combination and whoops that were 160 pts dead in one shooting phase and a killed warlord.

Frankly it is bad design, because if a unit is not worth it's points without the tagged on stuff then why the feth do the rest of the subfactions have to pay for THAT specific combination in the first place?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/03 09:10:43


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
And it doesn't bother you that you have to invest a Warlord Trait, Artefact and Stratagem into your HQ just to make him remotely functional in his role?
Like smashcaptains, chainlords, etc? It's not great but I suppose it does at least limit you to one monsterously buffed-up HQ at a time.
   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





A.T. wrote:
 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
And it doesn't bother you that you have to invest a Warlord Trait, Artefact and Stratagem into your HQ just to make him remotely functional in his role?
Like smashcaptains, chainlords, etc? It's not great but I suppose it does at least limit you to one monsterously buffed-up HQ at a time.


(IF it weren't for council of traitors, Field commanders, etc?)

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
 
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