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Made in gb
Heroic Senior Officer





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

I really wanted to like digital versions. I don't have an IAnything, so just the .epub files.
After a while, I found that I learn the books better from the printed books.
The digitals are handy for at-game reference.

But lugging books around is easier when softback.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/10 12:15:13


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Glasgow, Scotland

 oni wrote:
Too funny. When all we had were softback's, players cried for hardback's to justify the price.


I was definitely guilty of that back in the day, but now I really wish all my hardbacks were soft covers.

Soft covers are cheaper, which is nice. They also don't last as long, which is less nice. That all said, I find them easier to flick through and read when you're in the middle of a game codex. They're also considerably lighter in your bag - which is a bonus for someone like me who travels by rail to a lot of my games.

The biggest thing though for me is just how much easier they were to read. I don't really need my codexes to last forever - they're going to be out of date in a couple of years any way. Give me something cheap and relatively disposable.

Nowadays, there's also so much content in the codexes but so little of it is worth the time spent to read it. Less is more sometimes.

But while we're on the subject, more than anything I wish they'd go back to laying out the datasheets like:

NAMED HQ, HQ, ELITES, TROOPS, TROOP TRANSPORTS, FAST ATTACK, HEAVY SUPPORT

Maybe not all codexes have this issue, but certainly with my Space Wolves and Chaos Space Marines codexes it's an absolutely pain in the ass to find the right datasheet sometimes, when you've got things laid out like

NAMED HQ, 1 TROOP, HQ, HQ, 1 TROOP, PRIMARIS HQ, PRIMARIS TROOP, ELITES, FAST ATTACK, HEAVY SUPPORT, TRANSPORTS, LORD OF WAR

I don't understand the rationale for they do it this way.

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London, UK

I miss softback books quite a lot, it's far easier to quickly reference a page by bending and flicking through it but with hardback it's a bit more difficult.

I used all of my softbacks heavily and have never had issues with them, they were well built and you literally had to treat them like rubbish to see issues.

What I'd really like to see is a small version of the rulebook/CA come back. Carting a massive hardback for the rules is ridiculous and I'd much rather have the full rules like they had with the 5th edition AoBR set.

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As with others, I definitely miss the price of softback books.

Part of the issue is the high turnover rate. I'd be less objectionable about the price if the book actually lasted a long time. Instead, I'm expected to buy another, equally expensive book as soon as the next edition rolls around.

What makes it even worse is that so much stuff is just directly copied and pasted from one book to the next.

I don't need 3 copies of the same fluff for Scourges or Hellions. All I need are the new rules.
   
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Revving Ravenwing Biker




Hanoi, Vietnam.

Softbacks:
  • Cheaper to produce (if not to buy)
  • Pleasant to flick through, when you're in bed or on a couch.
  • Lighter and more portable than hardbacks.
  • No batteries required.

  • Hardbacks:
  • More durable than softbacks.
  • Can be left open on a flat surface.
  • Probably the most beautiful format.
  • No batteries required.

  • Digital:
  • Can (usually) make use of search and navigation functions.
  • Extremely portable.
  • Can be updated.
  • Extremely cheap to produce.


  • Since the moment I came to the outrageous realization that a digital codex costs the same as a hardback one, despite the production costs being magnitudinally different, I've unashamedly engaged in large degree of piracy, and will probably continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Interestingly, the thing that weaned me off of movie piracy was Netflix. I realized when Netflix came out, that I was actually willing to pay for the content I enjoy; it's just that there's a limit to what I will pay. Based on my past habits, I too would very likely buy into a subscription service for rules, but until then, all my money is going on plastic rather than paper.
       
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     Ginjitzu wrote:
    Softbacks:
  • Cheaper to produce (if not to buy)
  • Pleasant to flick through, when you're in bed or on a couch.
  • Lighter and more portable than hardbacks.
  • No batteries required.

  • Hardbacks:
  • More durable than softbacks.
  • Can be left open on a flat surface.
  • Probably the most beautiful format.
  • No batteries required.

  • Digital:
  • Can (usually) make use of search and navigation functions.
  • Extremely portable.
  • Can be updated.
  • Extremely cheap to produce.


  • Since the moment I came to the outrageous realization that a digital codex costs the same as a hardback one, despite the production costs being magnitudinally different, I've unashamedly engaged in large degree of piracy, and will probably continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Interestingly, the thing that weaned me off of movie piracy was Netflix. I realized when Netflix came out, that I was actually willing to pay for the content I enjoy; it's just that there's a limit to what I will pay. Based on my past habits, I too would very likely buy into a subscription service for rules, but until then, all my money is going on plastic rather than paper.


    yea, same here on the finding codexes through other means. i get the books for armies I own but am not spending money on codexes I don't own so... find outside gw digital soarces for said books. I would happily pay for a subscription, but $40 per book to learn what opponents can do.. no. Now a 5-10 per month subscription, sign me up. add in a list building tool that is worth a damn and using updated rules and... boom print money.
       
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    Awesome Autarch






    There are a couple of reasons I prefer physical copies...but I've been around doing this for 25+ years at this point.

    Firstly, tabletop gaming is my time away from screens and tech and that makes it all the more relaxing and fun to me. I just don't want to bust out a phone unless I'm taking a few pics, etc. I enjoy ignoring phone calls, text messages and anything else while I'm gaming. Any time spent away from the screen is a plus.

    Secondly...there's a convenience and longevity to physical products that digital products may never match up to. Despite our prevalence of tech nowdays...books simply exist. I have a magazine box next to my computer right now with copies of all of the 2nd edition Warhammer 40K codices. They're all 20-25 years old...but they're not going anywhere. On the flip side of that how many laptops, PCs, phones, and tablets have people been through in that time? Digital files eventually get lost, deleted, corrupted or forgotten. It's only a few at a time, but over 20 years you're simply going to lose that info. You might be able to find some online with a dedicated search...

    A book though? Sits on a book shelf or in a box. Heck in 40 years time I could still pick up and read these 2nd edition codices. There's much more of a no-worry approach to a physical product. No batteries, no charging, no formatting, no change of popular file types, no need to download old readers because your file is increasingly old, etc. It's not a major concern for most people....but there is absolutely an appreciation for having stuff in simple physical form.

    I have access to PDFs of every single GW book at the moment, but I still buy my physical codices for the armies I run.

     
       
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    Apple fox wrote:
     oni wrote:
    Too funny. When all we had were softback's, players cried for hardback's to justify the price.

    Hardback's have a better fit-n-finish to them. Additionally, softback books cannot stand up to the same level of punishment (i.e. constant handling) that hardback's can.

    Digital... Laughable! Digital is anything but convenient. For the sake of this conversation, information can be found a lot faster in a paper book vs. digital.

    I just wanted to point out that you can set and name bookmarks for a digital codex, For quick reference. And when done well, you can even have a search function and everything available in a physical book to find things. Much faster than physical books.
    GW still has a bit to go before they get there. But its all Available.


    I really doubt viewing anything on a tablet or phone is more efficient than flipping through a book. Also, then we'd have phones and tablets at the gaming table, which is something I overwhelmingly try to avoid.

    I like it here under my rock.

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    BrianDavion wrote:
     Elbows wrote:
    Also, worth pointing out - with the current 40K "method" of invalidating codices pretty quickly with heaps of FAQ/errata and points changes....codices really need to be $20-25 a pop and softback so people would care less about writing in them, or eventually replacing them with updated versions.

    No one cares that much...until you start charging $50 for a book you rarely use. Hell, sell me a $25 softback codex with a small "note" box in the bottom corner of each page so we can make our own adjustments/fixes....


    I think I'd like to have a digital one that updates as necessary given to me for free with the purchase of a hard cover. then I can keep the hardcovers at home as glorified bathroom readers/coffee table books


    Yes. I think that's the move. We can only pray for logic and good customer service eh?

    There should be a digital only option for those that only want the rules. Id go further and say I wouldn't personally be opposed to pay for a new version every year if it was like £15... I think it would worth it if meant no codex specific FAQ documents and erratas as the PDF would be updated.

    The hard cover should be more akin to a collectors edition/item for those that want it IMO. The problem with having a book codex is that is onsolete almost as soon as it gets printed and needs an errata... I mean all the FAQ and erratas could be avoided if they did their job right in the first place but that's a whole other kettle of codex..

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/10 21:56:29


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    AngryAngel80 wrote:
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    I'd much prefer they were staple bound (can lay flat), thin and cheap enough to replace regularly as things change. Most codexes don't have so many entries that they couldn't fit on 32 pages, provided they left 95% of the fluff out of the codex. Heck, there'd still be lots of room for fluff in a lot of codexes at that size.


       
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    Australia

    The collector in me much prefers hardcover, but if they were cheaper & softcover I'd be buying more books for armies I don't play like I did in years gone by.

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    Ozomoto wrote:
     Stormatious wrote:
    Yeah i would love it, because i don't want to spend lots of money on a hard cover book personally. Especially since the book almost becomes irrelevant within a couple of years or less. Which begs the question, why books at all, why not put it all online, save us some money.


    To be pedantic that is the wrong usage of begs the question.



    Ok thank you for that.

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/11 02:15:32


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    I miss softcover because I used to buy every Codex to read about the background, learn about the fluff, and enjoy the artwork, as well as learn about the army. When the prices went up so much for hardcover, I just had to stop doing that. I still have all my old codexes from 3-whenever they stopped doing softcovers. I wish they would do softcovers, and do the hardcover as the 'special edition', rather than hardcovers and a gigantically overpriced special edition hardcover.

     
       
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    Courageous Space Marine Captain





     John Prins wrote:
    I'd much prefer they were staple bound (can lay flat), thin and cheap enough to replace regularly as things change. Most codexes don't have so many entries that they couldn't fit on 32 pages, provided they left 95% of the fluff out of the codex. Heck, there'd still be lots of room for fluff in a lot of codexes at that size.



    I'd rather they not remove the fluff. the Fluff is what makes 40k 40k. TBH I just don't get the "remove the fluff" mindset some folks have.. I mean Intellectually I understand that they just have a differant view of the game to me, I just can't understand why someone would bother with 40k if they wheren't intreasted in the setting.

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    BrianDavion wrote:
     John Prins wrote:
    I'd much prefer they were staple bound (can lay flat), thin and cheap enough to replace regularly as things change. Most codexes don't have so many entries that they couldn't fit on 32 pages, provided they left 95% of the fluff out of the codex. Heck, there'd still be lots of room for fluff in a lot of codexes at that size.



    I'd rather they not remove the fluff. the Fluff is what makes 40k 40k. TBH I just don't get the "remove the fluff" mindset some folks have.. I mean Intellectually I understand that they just have a differant view of the game to me, I just can't understand why someone would bother with 40k if they wheren't intreasted in the setting.


    Well, at least for Necrons, the fluff in the Codex had basically been copy/pasted since the retcon that was 5th ed. Very little new lore. Not to mention the constant reuse of the same art. Give us something new!

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/11 07:51:49


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    BrianDavion wrote:
     John Prins wrote:
    I'd much prefer they were staple bound (can lay flat), thin and cheap enough to replace regularly as things change. Most codexes don't have so many entries that they couldn't fit on 32 pages, provided they left 95% of the fluff out of the codex. Heck, there'd still be lots of room for fluff in a lot of codexes at that size.



    I'd rather they not remove the fluff. the Fluff is what makes 40k 40k. TBH I just don't get the "remove the fluff" mindset some folks have.. I mean Intellectually I understand that they just have a differant view of the game to me, I just can't understand why someone would bother with 40k if they wheren't intreasted in the setting.


    Plenty of room for fluff in the main Rulebook, which is what, 85% fluff? Heck most 32 page codexes would have room for fluff if GW improved their layout and codex entry designs. Maybe C:Space Marines would need 64 pages to handle the unit bloat. It would be nice to be able to get every army's codexes for reference without breaking my bank account or breaking my shelf space.


       
    Made in ca
    Courageous Space Marine Captain





     John Prins wrote:
    BrianDavion wrote:
     John Prins wrote:
    I'd much prefer they were staple bound (can lay flat), thin and cheap enough to replace regularly as things change. Most codexes don't have so many entries that they couldn't fit on 32 pages, provided they left 95% of the fluff out of the codex. Heck, there'd still be lots of room for fluff in a lot of codexes at that size.



    I'd rather they not remove the fluff. the Fluff is what makes 40k 40k. TBH I just don't get the "remove the fluff" mindset some folks have.. I mean Intellectually I understand that they just have a differant view of the game to me, I just can't understand why someone would bother with 40k if they wheren't intreasted in the setting.


    Plenty of room for fluff in the main Rulebook, which is what, 85% fluff? Heck most 32 page codexes would have room for fluff if GW improved their layout and codex entry designs. Maybe C:Space Marines would need 64 pages to handle the unit bloat. It would be nice to be able to get every army's codexes for reference without breaking my bank account or breaking my shelf space.



    the main rule book has a ton of fluff, but it clearly doesn't ahve eneugh to fluff out every unit in the entire game.

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    -Guardsman- wrote:
    Digital is convenient for quick reference during a game, but I really wouldn't enjoy sitting on my couch and reading a digital codex on my phone. I like leafing through pages.

    .
    I wouldn't read on my phone, but I love reading it on a big tablet - especially with the enhanced versions that might have an audio or video file in it, plus being able to pinch/zoom on artwork.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
    Apple fox wrote:
     oni wrote:
    Too funny. When all we had were softback's, players cried for hardback's to justify the price.

    Hardback's have a better fit-n-finish to them. Additionally, softback books cannot stand up to the same level of punishment (i.e. constant handling) that hardback's can.

    Digital... Laughable! Digital is anything but convenient. For the sake of this conversation, information can be found a lot faster in a paper book vs. digital.

    I just wanted to point out that you can set and name bookmarks for a digital codex, For quick reference. And when done well, you can even have a search function and everything available in a physical book to find things. Much faster than physical books.
    GW still has a bit to go before they get there. But its all Available.


    I really doubt viewing anything on a tablet or phone is more efficient than flipping through a book. Also, then we'd have phones and tablets at the gaming table, which is something I overwhelmingly try to avoid.

    I like it here under my rock.


    I like the ebooks at the gaming table for the popup/linked entries - need your weapon stats? Click the blue weapon name. Plus the Search/Glossary feature.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Argive wrote:
    BrianDavion wrote:
     Elbows wrote:
    Also, worth pointing out - with the current 40K "method" of invalidating codices pretty quickly with heaps of FAQ/errata and points changes....codices really need to be $20-25 a pop and softback so people would care less about writing in them, or eventually replacing them with updated versions.

    No one cares that much...until you start charging $50 for a book you rarely use. Hell, sell me a $25 softback codex with a small "note" box in the bottom corner of each page so we can make our own adjustments/fixes....


    I think I'd like to have a digital one that updates as necessary given to me for free with the purchase of a hard cover. then I can keep the hardcovers at home as glorified bathroom readers/coffee table books


    Yes. I think that's the move. We can only pray for logic and good customer service eh?

    There should be a digital only option for those that only want the rules. Id go further and say I wouldn't personally be opposed to pay for a new version every year if it was like £15... I think it would worth it if meant no codex specific FAQ documents and erratas as the PDF would be updated.

    The hard cover should be more akin to a collectors edition/item for those that want it IMO. The problem with having a book codex is that is onsolete almost as soon as it gets printed and needs an errata... I mean all the FAQ and erratas could be avoided if they did their job right in the first place but that's a whole other kettle of codex..


    I would definitely love a free same eBook coupon in my hardcover. I've bought some twice and really hated it. FWIW, the digital one does (theoretically) update automatically when they update the rules, you just dont get one for free with the purchase of a hard-cover. The Digital-only no art/no fluff option I wouldn't like, as mentioned, I like being able to use digital versions to manipulate the art/etc for better viewing. It comes from being old, curious or both.

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/13 07:56:32


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