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Made in us
Dakka Veteran




It's left-over thinking from the Tac/Dev/Assault boxes. Buy a Dev and a Tac and you'll have all the heavy weapons you'll ever need to proxy all the Lascannons that you actually want. Buy an Assault squad box to build cheaper Vanguard Vets and no matter what you arm them with you'll have a ton of weapons left over for equiping Sergeants.

If you have a bits-box already you should be able to handle equiping Intercessor Sergeants. Kind of stinks if you don't.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





So should they:
A. Include every bit you could possibly use to kit out your squad in the kit - meaning a 10man Tac box includes:
10x:
-Boltguns
-Pistols
-CCW
-Krak Grenades
-Frag Grenades
2x:
-PGs
-MGs
-GGs
-Flamers
-Lascannons
-GravCannons
-Missile Launchers
-Plasma Cannons
-Heavy Bolters
-Heavy Flamers
-Combi PGs
-Combi GGs
-Combi MGs
-Combi Flamers
-Storm Bolters
-Melta Bombs
-Grav Pistols
-Plasma Pistols
-Inferno Pistols
-Hand Flamers
-Power Swords
-Power Axes
-Power Mauls
-Power Fists
-Lightning Claws
-Chainswords
-Thunder Hammers

Which would probably cost a *lot* more than the current kit...

B. Reduce options down to what's on-sprue. So limited Heavy weapons on a Tac squad. Devs can only have 1-2 of any given heavy weapon. Captains/ChapterMasters can only have a couple different weapons options. And those on jetpacks/bikes have fewer still.

C. Allow people who own more than one kit to use both kits together.

I, for one, don't want to be told I can't field my Relic Blade/Combi-Melta Captain on foot, just because GW doesn't *currently* sell *that specific loadout*. And, before you call me hysterical, GW does that for Autarchs.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I wouldn't mind seeing smash capts go away. Because they are dumb.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






Bharring wrote:

C. Allow people who own more than one kit to use both kits together.

I, for one, don't want to be told I can't field my Relic Blade/Combi-Melta Captain on foot, just because GW doesn't *currently* sell *that specific loadout*. And, before you call me hysterical, GW does that for Autarchs.


This so much. Do not make kits-units fixed 1-1. It's nonsense.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

More options in-kit, though, would be great.

Chaos Terminators are a good example of bad. Can’t even make the DEFAULT load out with the box.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






 JNAProductions wrote:
More options in-kit, though, would be great.

Chaos Terminators are a good example of bad. Can’t even make the DEFAULT load out with the box.


That and the new Chaos Marines box make me fear for the future.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Custodes Shield Captain





Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes

 JNAProductions wrote:
More options in-kit, though, would be great.

Chaos Terminators are a good example of bad. Can’t even make the DEFAULT load out with the box.


How can store managers tell you to buy more boxes to make a basic squad, or to buy FW upgrade kits to make base squads then. Or be asked, "Why would you want to run base squads?" all have happened.
   
Made in us
Legendary Dogfighter





 G00fySmiley wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Breton wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
First off, unless they release the models with the weapons, I am sick of buying 3 different boxes to kit out my line of 5 most basic dudes. Put it on the spru or take it off the fething sheet.

Second, I am betting this is for DW Intercessors, not Regular intercessors. If this is for regulars, it kinda invalidates the primary strength of DW, which is their tactical flexibility and ammo types.

Finally, what is the point of giving long range shooting units 6" crap shooting? Or melee options? Why not just give them Lightning Claws to complete the weird crap being tossed at them trifecta?


Does it really matter if the put a hand flamer in the box or not?


You guys are all racing past the best goodie from the sheet. Anyone else looking forward to the debate over what "Every model may be equipped with 1 XXXX bolt rifle instead of 1 bolt rifle." Does this mean you do every model at once and have uniform loads? Does this mean every model can mix and match? New phrasing, new argument.


*Starts spraying Anti-RAW spray**** GO! Git! Git! Shoo! No one wants to debate with you as to what the meaning of "is" is!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
First off, unless they release the models with the weapons, I am sick of buying 3 different boxes to kit out my line of 5 most basic dudes. Put it on the spru or take it off the fething sheet.

Second, I am betting this is for DW Intercessors, not Regular intercessors. If this is for regulars, it kinda invalidates the primary strength of DW, which is their tactical flexibility and ammo types.

Finally, what is the point of giving long range shooting units 6" crap shooting? Or melee options? Why not just give them Lightning Claws to complete the weird crap being tossed at them trifecta?


that is why bits sites are so popular, get some counts as for the things GW left out. alternatively 3d print your own. I know that is what I end up often doing.


I know, it's just, common. Through me a fricking bone here. Is it really too much to ask for them to throw in a correct weapons spru on their 60 dollar box of plastic? It was the most disheartening thing ever as a new player to buy the Grey Knights Paladin box, and not even have the ability to make the load out the rules in the box said I could. Imagine if LEGGO came out with their models that required you buy several unrelated boxes of leggos in order to correctly build the thing you bought in the first place.


oh I totally get that. GW SHOULD at what they charge include every possible layout, but they never wiil. I am convinced in the GW world they figure is a person wants say 5 of a weapon for a squad that can take 5 but onyl 1 comes in the box that most people will buy 5 boxes.


Exactly right. I remember bitching about not having enough plasma rifles to kit out a command squad for when I used to run Scions. The GW rep literally said "We want you to buy at least 3 more kits. So we don't put them in the box."

Blew me away. Then the icing on the cake was that GW doesn't allow parts swapping in their stores.
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Exactly right. I remember bitching about not having enough plasma rifles to kit out a command squad for when I used to run Scions. The GW rep literally said "We want you to buy at least 3 more kits. So we don't put them in the box."

Blew me away. Then the icing on the cake was that GW doesn't allow parts swapping in their stores.
You must have a crap manager. My local GW manager has bits boxes people can raid freely-the only requirement is you put an approximately equal amount of bits back in for whatever you take,

And bits trading is 100% okay in his store.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





 JNAProductions wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Exactly right. I remember bitching about not having enough plasma rifles to kit out a command squad for when I used to run Scions. The GW rep literally said "We want you to buy at least 3 more kits. So we don't put them in the box."

Blew me away. Then the icing on the cake was that GW doesn't allow parts swapping in their stores.
You must have a crap manager. My local GW manager has bits boxes people can raid freely-the only requirement is you put an approximately equal amount of bits back in for whatever you take,

And bits trading is 100% okay in his store.


I think one of our stores has that. I've never actually found the bits I wanted though, but apparently someone has been able to assemble an entire Leman Russ Tank by collecting discarded bits.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Legendary Dogfighter





I won't say he was crap, I didn't know him. I do know he toed the company line pretty hard, and won best in state a few times for sales records. (Caveat, there are only 3 approved GW reps in my state).

He refused to allow molds, non GW parts, Bits swapping, or printed models. You wanted to play in his store, you had to buy it from him. Which is a stance you take when you care more about the sale then the customer. But I can't judge. He was successful.

I did paint my guard once in the shop, an entire kit, before he noticed I was using my personal brushes, and a non-GW wash. He let me finish for the day and offer to sell me better brushes.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






GW stores sometimes feel like Scientology recruitment centers for gamers.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine






So the use of 1 is consistent with the new Chaos Knight Codex. That's interesting
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






 Togusa wrote:
So the use of 1 is consistent with the new Chaos Knight Codex. That's interesting

Er? "use of 1"?

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Martel732 wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing smash capts go away. Because they are dumb.

Nah it's totally fluffy to have Multiple Captains flying around with jumppacks 1 shotting titans. LOL just kidding. I am with you. Certain units should just not be able to hurt titans in melle IMO. Units of certain size differences really should not interact in melle IMO.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Xenomancers wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing smash capts go away. Because they are dumb.

Nah it's totally fluffy to have Multiple Captains flying around with jumppacks 1 shotting titans. LOL just kidding. I am with you. Certain units should just not be able to hurt titans in melle IMO. Units of certain size differences really should not interact in melle IMO.

So I can't use a Relic Blade and Melta Gun on my 7th Company Captain on foot, because BA JP captains with better weapons can oneshot Castelleans?
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






 Xenomancers wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing smash capts go away. Because they are dumb.

Nah it's totally fluffy to have Multiple Captains flying around with jumppacks 1 shotting titans. LOL just kidding. I am with you. Certain units should just not be able to hurt titans in melle IMO. Units of certain size differences really should not interact in melle IMO.

Only half-agree. Each army having a few captains flying around is dumb. True. But having fancy melee weapons should allow you to damage at least some war machines. Thunder Hammers damaging Knights is fine. I even encourage it.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Bharring wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing smash capts go away. Because they are dumb.

Nah it's totally fluffy to have Multiple Captains flying around with jumppacks 1 shotting titans. LOL just kidding. I am with you. Certain units should just not be able to hurt titans in melle IMO. Units of certain size differences really should not interact in melle IMO.

So I can't use a Relic Blade and Melta Gun on my 7th Company Captain on foot, because BA JP captains with better weapons can oneshot Castelleans?


No, because they are getting into restricting model loadouts. Smash capt would just be a good outcome of the policy.

I don't think thunder hammers are something regular infantry should be able to wield. Even marines.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/16 18:55:29


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Insectum7 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing smash capts go away. Because they are dumb.

Nah it's totally fluffy to have Multiple Captains flying around with jumppacks 1 shotting titans. LOL just kidding. I am with you. Certain units should just not be able to hurt titans in melle IMO. Units of certain size differences really should not interact in melle IMO.

Only half-agree. Each army having a few captains flying around is dumb. True. But having fancy melee weapons should allow you to damage at least some war machines. Thunder Hammers damaging Knights is fine. I even encourage it.
Have you seen the dawn of war 3 cinematic? This is the image I get in my head when a smash captain 1 shots a knight....I'm just like...this game sucks...Not only does it not make fluff sense. It makes 0 sense for 130 point units to 1 shot 600 point 1's.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Iowa

 Xenomancers wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing smash capts go away. Because they are dumb.

Nah it's totally fluffy to have Multiple Captains flying around with jumppacks 1 shotting titans. LOL just kidding. I am with you. Certain units should just not be able to hurt titans in melle IMO. Units of certain size differences really should not interact in melle IMO.

Only half-agree. Each army having a few captains flying around is dumb. True. But having fancy melee weapons should allow you to damage at least some war machines. Thunder Hammers damaging Knights is fine. I even encourage it.
Have you seen the dawn of war 3 cinematic? This is the image I get in my head when a smash captain 1 shots a knight....I'm just like...this game sucks...Not only does it not make fluff sense. It makes 0 sense for 130 point units to 1 shot 600 point 1's.

130 points plus how many CP?

If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed. 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

 Xenomancers wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing smash capts go away. Because they are dumb.

Nah it's totally fluffy to have Multiple Captains flying around with jumppacks 1 shotting titans. LOL just kidding. I am with you. Certain units should just not be able to hurt titans in melle IMO. Units of certain size differences really should not interact in melle IMO.

Only half-agree. Each army having a few captains flying around is dumb. True. But having fancy melee weapons should allow you to damage at least some war machines. Thunder Hammers damaging Knights is fine. I even encourage it.
Have you seen the dawn of war 3 cinematic? This is the image I get in my head when a smash captain 1 shots a knight....I'm just like...this game sucks...Not only does it not make fluff sense. It makes 0 sense for 130 point units to 1 shot 600 point 1's.
To be fair, it's 130 point Warlord with 4+ CP spent.

Not saying they're balanced, but there's more than just points going in.

And moreover, what do my Nurgle Daemons get to fight Knights with if infantry can't touch them?

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Bharring wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing smash capts go away. Because they are dumb.

Nah it's totally fluffy to have Multiple Captains flying around with jumppacks 1 shotting titans. LOL just kidding. I am with you. Certain units should just not be able to hurt titans in melle IMO. Units of certain size differences really should not interact in melle IMO.

So I can't use a Relic Blade and Melta Gun on my 7th Company Captain on foot, because BA JP captains with better weapons can oneshot Castelleans?

I said melle...Mainly because just getting that close to an absurdly large unit to hit it with a hammer would likely kill you. Plus if they step on you that storm shield isn't going to do a dang thing.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





But the solution you're advocating, while it might clip what you're aiming to kill (tons of Captains running around with few Marines), it'll certainly kill the option I posted too.
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

 Xenomancers wrote:
Bharring wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing smash capts go away. Because they are dumb.

Nah it's totally fluffy to have Multiple Captains flying around with jumppacks 1 shotting titans. LOL just kidding. I am with you. Certain units should just not be able to hurt titans in melle IMO. Units of certain size differences really should not interact in melle IMO.

So I can't use a Relic Blade and Melta Gun on my 7th Company Captain on foot, because BA JP captains with better weapons can oneshot Castelleans?

I said melle...Mainly because just getting that close to an absurdly large unit to hit it with a hammer would likely kill you. Plus if they step on you that storm shield isn't going to do a dang thing.
*Cough cough Nurgle Daemons cough*

Sorry, had an army I play and enjoy that has basically no shooting stuck in my throat.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 JNAProductions wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing smash capts go away. Because they are dumb.

Nah it's totally fluffy to have Multiple Captains flying around with jumppacks 1 shotting titans. LOL just kidding. I am with you. Certain units should just not be able to hurt titans in melle IMO. Units of certain size differences really should not interact in melle IMO.

Only half-agree. Each army having a few captains flying around is dumb. True. But having fancy melee weapons should allow you to damage at least some war machines. Thunder Hammers damaging Knights is fine. I even encourage it.
Have you seen the dawn of war 3 cinematic? This is the image I get in my head when a smash captain 1 shots a knight....I'm just like...this game sucks...Not only does it not make fluff sense. It makes 0 sense for 130 point units to 1 shot 600 point 1's.
To be fair, it's 130 point Warlord with 4+ CP spent.

Not saying they're balanced, but there's more than just points going in.

And moreover, what do my Nurgle Daemons get to fight Knights with if infantry can't touch them?

Which ones specifically? Cause I'm sure mortiarian can knock a knight out in melle in fluff and in game terms.
I consider CP free - because they are.

Though not actually complaining about BA - because they are a pretty bad army. However the +1 to wound army trait is pure insanity.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

I'm sorry, you must've misread me.

Nurgle DAEMONS, not Death Guard.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 JNAProductions wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Bharring wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing smash capts go away. Because they are dumb.

Nah it's totally fluffy to have Multiple Captains flying around with jumppacks 1 shotting titans. LOL just kidding. I am with you. Certain units should just not be able to hurt titans in melle IMO. Units of certain size differences really should not interact in melle IMO.

So I can't use a Relic Blade and Melta Gun on my 7th Company Captain on foot, because BA JP captains with better weapons can oneshot Castelleans?

I said melle...Mainly because just getting that close to an absurdly large unit to hit it with a hammer would likely kill you. Plus if they step on you that storm shield isn't going to do a dang thing.
*Cough cough Nurgle Daemons cough*

Sorry, had an army I play and enjoy that has basically no shooting stuck in my throat.

How many of your nurgling can the knight kill in 1 turn? Like 40 points worth? Hed need 11 turns to make his points back - in a 6 turn max game. You win just by existing. Plus you have Daemon prince...which appears to be something like 5x larger than a marine captain. Not to mention his ability to do mortal wounds. He should be able to fight a knight is what I am saying.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

 Xenomancers wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Bharring wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing smash capts go away. Because they are dumb.

Nah it's totally fluffy to have Multiple Captains flying around with jumppacks 1 shotting titans. LOL just kidding. I am with you. Certain units should just not be able to hurt titans in melle IMO. Units of certain size differences really should not interact in melle IMO.

So I can't use a Relic Blade and Melta Gun on my 7th Company Captain on foot, because BA JP captains with better weapons can oneshot Castelleans?

I said melle...Mainly because just getting that close to an absurdly large unit to hit it with a hammer would likely kill you. Plus if they step on you that storm shield isn't going to do a dang thing.
*Cough cough Nurgle Daemons cough*

Sorry, had an army I play and enjoy that has basically no shooting stuck in my throat.

How many of your nurgling can the knight kill in 1 turn? Like 40 points worth? Hed need 11 turns to make his points back - in a 6 turn max game. You win just by existing. Plus you have Daemon prince...which appears to be something like 5x larger than a marine captain. Not to mention his ability to do mortal wounds. He should be able to fight a knight is what I am saying.
Yes, that's fun gameplay. "Sit back and hope you score enough points while you get slaughtered with no way of attacking the big thing."

And a Daemon Prince, with Virulent Blessing AND a Poxbringer, does...

7 attacks
245/36 hits
245/54 wounds
245/81 unsaved, at damage 2 (3s, 4s), 3 (5s), and 6 (6s).
9.83 damage on average.

What does the Knight do? Well let's see!

4 attacks
8/3 hits
20/9 wounds
40/27 unsaved
8.89 damage from the big boy weapon, or not enough to kill through FNP.

or...

12 attacks
8 hits
16/3 wounds
32/9 unsaved
7.11 damage.

So, in close combat only, a Knight will probably fail to kill my prince. (Unless they're a gallant, with an extra attack and better WS.) But then they can fall back and shoot him to hell.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Bharring wrote:
But the solution you're advocating, while it might clip what you're aiming to kill (tons of Captains running around with few Marines), it'll certainly kill the option I posted too.

Realistically that option is already dead.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Bharring wrote:
But the solution you're advocating, while it might clip what you're aiming to kill (tons of Captains running around with few Marines), it'll certainly kill the option I posted too.


It's not a "solution", it just looks like what GW might be cooking up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing smash capts go away. Because they are dumb.

Nah it's totally fluffy to have Multiple Captains flying around with jumppacks 1 shotting titans. LOL just kidding. I am with you. Certain units should just not be able to hurt titans in melle IMO. Units of certain size differences really should not interact in melle IMO.

Only half-agree. Each army having a few captains flying around is dumb. True. But having fancy melee weapons should allow you to damage at least some war machines. Thunder Hammers damaging Knights is fine. I even encourage it.
Have you seen the dawn of war 3 cinematic? This is the image I get in my head when a smash captain 1 shots a knight....I'm just like...this game sucks...Not only does it not make fluff sense. It makes 0 sense for 130 point units to 1 shot 600 point 1's.
To be fair, it's 130 point Warlord with 4+ CP spent.

Not saying they're balanced, but there's more than just points going in.

And moreover, what do my Nurgle Daemons get to fight Knights with if infantry can't touch them?

Which ones specifically? Cause I'm sure mortiarian can knock a knight out in melle in fluff and in game terms.
I consider CP free - because they are.

Though not actually complaining about BA - because they are a pretty bad army. However the +1 to wound army trait is pure insanity.


Hardly. It's a suicide trait on an army with terrible model count. It's the worst marine trait imo.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/16 19:33:08


 
   
 
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