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Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I'm fairly positive that non of the heavy support options of the Custodes get Aegis of the Emperor (5++). I could be wrong.
You are correct. Only the old landraider got it, and lost it with the codex. However all the hovertanks and the orion have their own built in 5++ under a different name.
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





 Xenomancers wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Comparable Ork transports cost 140+, have worse armor, less BS and no invulnerable saves. 200 points sounds about right.

I believe you are talking about a battlewaggon? It's double as tough as this thing.

I must have missed the part where I get free guns and 3+/4++ save on my battlewagon that somehow makes it "double as tough" as a repulsor-chasis.

If this is 120 points, battlewagons should drop to 70-80.

Drager wrote:
I'd heard there would be a clatter, then perhaps a hiss, but that's not what it's like. We'd all been told that these things lurked in vents and crevices, that they could sneak up on a man no matter how alert, but that just wasn't what happened. We saw them coming, well, we heard them first, an ear-splitting boom as they accelerated across the plain. They must have been 2 miles away when we heard the crack, but we barely had time to lift our weapons before they were on us and then... past us. Running faster than I could follow. They didn't attack, didn't even try and it was then, as the whole platoon stared after them that a dread crept through me and I turned to see that which they had been running from.

-Infantryman Collins, 5th Umbra Rifles
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Jidmah wrote:

I must have missed the part where I get free guns and 3+/4++ save on my battlewagon that somehow makes it "double as tough" as a repulsor-chasis.

If this is 120 points, battlewagons should drop to 70-80.


If you seriously think the Impulsor is coming out at a T8/16W/3+/4++ statline I dont know what to say.
   
Made in ca
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






What's the trade off for battle wagons?

I thought a rhino at 70 was kinda the baseline in 8th
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 fraser1191 wrote:
What's the trade off for battle wagons?

I thought a rhino at 70 was kinda the baseline in 8th


Open topped, PotMS (Ork equivalent), 20 man capacity. If you dont care about the embarked shooting you can make it T8 for no additional cost (beyond giving up aforementioned Open Topped).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/09 17:56:49


 
   
Made in ca
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






Sterling191 wrote:
 fraser1191 wrote:
What's the trade off for battle wagons?

I thought a rhino at 70 was kinda the baseline in 8th


Open topped, PotMS (Ork equivalent), 20 man capacity.


But lemme guess T6 too?

I said this before but orks need someone that loves them to actually write the rules for them
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 fraser1191 wrote:

But lemme guess T6 too?

I said this before but orks need someone that loves them to actually write the rules for them


See my edit. T7/4+ base. Goes to T8 if you opt to give up open topped.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 fraser1191 wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Why does no one think this will be over 200pts?

Things I think it will have given the repulsor chasis:

Repulsor wash
Fly
14" movement

Things we have confirmed it has:

4++ or Guns or Orbital Bombardment
Troop Transport capacity matching the Repulsor
Stubbers
Assault Transport Rule


What the Rhino has:

Transport
1-2 SBs

People saying this will cost about the same as an upgunned Rhino are in for a very rude awakening.


I genuinely doubt it will have the up wash ability, it is significantly smaller than the repulsor. It most likely has fly. Giving it an invlun will most likely be the most expensive option. It can also only transport 6 models(or 3 gravis models). I for one don't think it will be over 200 because that would be killing on arrival. I figure with the invulns it has 2 storm bolters and a stubber, not real expensive weapons. I'd say it's in the ball park of 120-150. It's more or less a rhino with fly and an invuln it's not earth shattering to see it less than 200 points


The Impulsor is not smaller than a Repulsor:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/UltramarinesPreview-Aug8-Battleshot7jjce.jpg

If anything it actually looks a little bigger in that pic, but I'd wager it's actually the same size.
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





Sterling191 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:

I must have missed the part where I get free guns and 3+/4++ save on my battlewagon that somehow makes it "double as tough" as a repulsor-chasis.

If this is 120 points, battlewagons should drop to 70-80.


If you seriously think the Impulsor is coming out at a T8/16W/3+/4++ statline I dont know what to say.


How about "yes, that's quite possible, considering how almost all vehicles that have been ever made for marines are have similar statlines if they are based on the same chasis".

It might have wound or two less, but it's still a repulsor with less guns, fly and the ability to drop passengers after moving.

Drager wrote:
I'd heard there would be a clatter, then perhaps a hiss, but that's not what it's like. We'd all been told that these things lurked in vents and crevices, that they could sneak up on a man no matter how alert, but that just wasn't what happened. We saw them coming, well, we heard them first, an ear-splitting boom as they accelerated across the plain. They must have been 2 miles away when we heard the crack, but we barely had time to lift our weapons before they were on us and then... past us. Running faster than I could follow. They didn't attack, didn't even try and it was then, as the whole platoon stared after them that a dread crept through me and I turned to see that which they had been running from.

-Infantryman Collins, 5th Umbra Rifles
 
   
Made in us
Legendary Dogfighter





Look, this this is lierally nothing like a Rhino. So we need to prevent butthurt feelbads by tempering our expectation that it will cost the same as one. It won't. It's got an ability that no other transport has, and can, if the repulsor is anything to go by, turn 1 reach, deploy, and shoot/charge the enemy. 150pts will be base.

   
Made in ca
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






Spoiler:
The Newman wrote:
 fraser1191 wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Why does no one think this will be over 200pts?

Things I think it will have given the repulsor chasis:

Repulsor wash
Fly
14" movement

Things we have confirmed it has:

4++ or Guns or Orbital Bombardment
Troop Transport capacity matching the Repulsor
Stubbers
Assault Transport Rule


What the Rhino has:

Transport
1-2 SBs

People saying this will cost about the same as an upgunned Rhino are in for a very rude awakening.


I genuinely doubt it will have the up wash ability, it is significantly smaller than the repulsor. It most likely has fly. Giving it an invlun will most likely be the most expensive option. It can also only transport 6 models(or 3 gravis models). I for one don't think it will be over 200 because that would be killing on arrival. I figure with the invulns it has 2 storm bolters and a stubber, not real expensive weapons. I'd say it's in the ball park of 120-150. It's more or less a rhino with fly and an invuln it's not earth shattering to see it less than 200 points


The Impulsor is not smaller than a Repulsor:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/UltramarinesPreview-Aug8-Battleshot7jjce.jpg

If anything it actually looks a little bigger in that pic, but I'd wager it's actually the same size.


I think you're right it does look larger than. I initially thought. But it is a little hard to tell from the positioning of everything. The ancient looks like it's barely above the fender, then an infiltrator on the right is close in height to it. I'll see how my Primaris look next to a standard rhino when I get home
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Look, this this is lierally nothing like a Rhino. So we need to prevent butthurt feelbads by tempering our expectation that it will cost the same as one. It won't. It's got an ability that no other transport has, and can, if the repulsor is anything to go by, turn 1 reach, deploy, and shoot/charge the enemy. 150pts will be base.


Literally the only person equating it to a Rhino is you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jidmah wrote:


How about "yes, that's quite possible, considering how almost all vehicles that have been ever made for marines are have similar statlines if they are based on the same chasis".

It might have wound or two less, but it's still a repulsor with less guns, fly and the ability to drop passengers after moving.


Its abundantly clear from images this isnt on a Repulsor chassis.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/09 18:15:03


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Jidmah wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Comparable Ork transports cost 140+, have worse armor, less BS and no invulnerable saves. 200 points sounds about right.

I believe you are talking about a battlewaggon? It's double as tough as this thing.

I must have missed the part where I get free guns and 3+/4++ save on my battlewagon that somehow makes it "double as tough" as a repulsor-chasis.

If this is 120 points, battlewagons should drop to 70-80.

Impulsor is a rhino. It with have 10W t7 3+...not t8 16 wounds 3+ save. It also has and invo or guns. BW can have both. Kustom force field.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






 Xenomancers wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Comparable Ork transports cost 140+, have worse armor, less BS and no invulnerable saves. 200 points sounds about right.

I believe you are talking about a battlewaggon? It's double as tough as this thing.

I must have missed the part where I get free guns and 3+/4++ save on my battlewagon that somehow makes it "double as tough" as a repulsor-chasis.

If this is 120 points, battlewagons should drop to 70-80.

Impulsor is a rhino. It with have 10W t7 3+...not t8 16 wounds 3+ save. It also has and invo or guns. BW can have both. Kustom force field.


index option and costs 75 points on a big mek, or 115 points on a even bigger waste a 115 point big mek in mega armor, kff is not worth it on a BW. Also it only covrs the vehicle itself so unlike previous editions where 1 kff could cover multiple wagons it is just the 1 wagon

10000 points 7000
6000
5000
5000
2000
 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 G00fySmiley wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Comparable Ork transports cost 140+, have worse armor, less BS and no invulnerable saves. 200 points sounds about right.

I believe you are talking about a battlewaggon? It's double as tough as this thing.

I must have missed the part where I get free guns and 3+/4++ save on my battlewagon that somehow makes it "double as tough" as a repulsor-chasis.

If this is 120 points, battlewagons should drop to 70-80.

Impulsor is a rhino. It with have 10W t7 3+...not t8 16 wounds 3+ save. It also has and invo or guns. BW can have both. Kustom force field.


index option and costs 75 points on a big mek, or 115 points on a even bigger waste a 115 point big mek in mega armor, kff is not worth it on a BW. Also it only covrs the vehicle itself so unlike previous editions where 1 kff could cover multiple wagons it is just the 1 wagon
If you think a 5++ bubble that can cover your whole army for 3 CP at an 18" radius is a waste and as a result haven't tried it - go ahead and try it. Most ork armies I play against actually take 2 of them. One on a Wazdaka jet and 1 on foot. For an army that is covered with 6+ save - it literally is a 100% durability increase or more. It also makes your vehicle a lot more survivable than marine vehicles. Thats neether here nor there but if a 4++ for a single vehicle with 2 storm bolters and s stubber is worth 30 points - what is a 5+ invo buble worth?

BW is not bad for it's cost. I'm not sure why anyone even brought it up though. This vehicle we are talking about is a rhino type.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

6+ to 5++ is not doubly durable.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





 Xenomancers wrote:
If you think a 5++ bubble that can cover your whole army for 3 CP at an 18" radius is a waste and as a result haven't tried it - go ahead and try it. Most ork armies I play against actually take 2 of them. One on a Wazdaka jet and 1 on foot. For an army that is covered with 6+ save - it literally is a 100% durability increase or more. It also makes your vehicle a lot more survivable than marine vehicles. Thats neether here nor there but if a 4++ for a single vehicle with 2 storm bolters and s stubber is worth 30 points - what is a 5+ invo buble worth?

Ok, you convinced me. The new transport should be 120 (bw cost) plus 40 (33% more durable because 3+ armor) plus 115 (cost of the only codex KFF that can use the stratagem) plus 58 (50% better save than KFF) plus 10 for guns.

So 342 points seems about right. Considering how awesome BW are and that marines have stuff like helblasters to put inside, that's not bad for its cost.

This vehicle we are talking about is a rhino type.

Citation needed.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/10 06:19:00


Drager wrote:
I'd heard there would be a clatter, then perhaps a hiss, but that's not what it's like. We'd all been told that these things lurked in vents and crevices, that they could sneak up on a man no matter how alert, but that just wasn't what happened. We saw them coming, well, we heard them first, an ear-splitting boom as they accelerated across the plain. They must have been 2 miles away when we heard the crack, but we barely had time to lift our weapons before they were on us and then... past us. Running faster than I could follow. They didn't attack, didn't even try and it was then, as the whole platoon stared after them that a dread crept through me and I turned to see that which they had been running from.

-Infantryman Collins, 5th Umbra Rifles
 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





 Xenomancers wrote:
Where are you getting that they get a 4++ for being near the tank. They get it for being inside IF you sacrofice a gun to get the 4++. Realistically - this is the least OP unit we have seen out of the new release with has so much actually OP stuff. The one cool thing about this tank that might lead to it's use is that it can move and then disembark units.


I'm hoping this gets applied to at least some of the rest of the transports that have had an assault ramp type of rule before - like LR raider variants.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





Breton wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Where are you getting that they get a 4++ for being near the tank. They get it for being inside IF you sacrofice a gun to get the 4++. Realistically - this is the least OP unit we have seen out of the new release with has so much actually OP stuff. The one cool thing about this tank that might lead to it's use is that it can move and then disembark units.


I'm hoping this gets applied to at least some of the rest of the transports that have had an assault ramp type of rule before - like LR raider variants.


but then we'd not ahve a reason to buy the new hotness.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





 Argive wrote:
It will be interesting to see how it comes out in the wash points wise.

Having a 4++ transport which can move and deploy on top of everything else seems very strong


Its going to be more interesting to see what the combos are. The obvious one is stick some shooty guys in, drive up, dump and bang. But with a 4++ you could keep the fighty guys inside for a turn, then dump and charge. They made a mistake getting rid of Embark or Disembark but not both in one turn. That was the better way of handling this. not locking units in transports for an opponent's turn. Now I'm thinking you can load up, drive, dump, and shoot all in one turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
Breton wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Where are you getting that they get a 4++ for being near the tank. They get it for being inside IF you sacrofice a gun to get the 4++. Realistically - this is the least OP unit we have seen out of the new release with has so much actually OP stuff. The one cool thing about this tank that might lead to it's use is that it can move and then disembark units.


I'm hoping this gets applied to at least some of the rest of the transports that have had an assault ramp type of rule before - like LR raider variants.


but then we'd not ahve a reason to buy the new hotness.


Land Raiders can't carry Primaris (so far). You still have to buy the new hotness to transport your month old hotness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Comparable Ork transports cost 140+, have worse armor, less BS and no invulnerable saves. 200 points sounds about right.


don't forget the assault transport rule that used to be an ork thing... now a primaris only. move transport and still get out. Sure they cannot assault afterwards, but hellblasters popping out and firing in range or if they get a melta equivilant will be pretty powerful.


It used to be an everybody thing. Land Raiders used to have an Assault Ramp rule too I think, plus the LRC/R had frag launchers for initiative shenanigans.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for stats -

It does appear to be a Repulsor Chassis - And it looks like they're turning the Repulsor Chassis into the Rhino Chassis.

The Impulsor sounds like it can be the Rhino(4++), the Razorback (Double Dakka Turret), the Whirlwind(Double Missile Dakka Turret), The Hunter (Double Anti-Air Missile Turret) and a really crappy one turn only Vindicator (Orbital Bombardment turret).

This in theory makes the Repulsor.. the Land Raider Crusader?

And the Executioner the Land Raider?

I'm not sure what's supposed to be the Predator, but I imagine we'll find out when Chronus crosses the Rubicon Primaris.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/08/10 07:48:47


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





I think it's more like the executioner is the vindicator(plasma)/predator annihilator(laser destroyer) and the repulsor the dakka pred.
The orbital bombard thing is taken from the rhino command tank.

Drager wrote:
I'd heard there would be a clatter, then perhaps a hiss, but that's not what it's like. We'd all been told that these things lurked in vents and crevices, that they could sneak up on a man no matter how alert, but that just wasn't what happened. We saw them coming, well, we heard them first, an ear-splitting boom as they accelerated across the plain. They must have been 2 miles away when we heard the crack, but we barely had time to lift our weapons before they were on us and then... past us. Running faster than I could follow. They didn't attack, didn't even try and it was then, as the whole platoon stared after them that a dread crept through me and I turned to see that which they had been running from.

-Infantryman Collins, 5th Umbra Rifles
 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





 Jidmah wrote:
I think it's more like the executioner is the vindicator(plasma)/predator annihilator(laser destroyer) and the repulsor the dakka pred.
The orbital bombard thing is taken from the rhino command tank.

I know of the Rhino Primaris or whatever it is.. And that's probably more accurate, but my analogy is more commonly used.

I was looking at the transport capacity generally with 10 becoming 6 and 16 becoming 10, but everything and it's sister is a transport now. I still don't think we've seen the Predator yet. I suppose in theory the hull mounted Twin Linked XXXX is a replacement for the Sponson, but then they locked the Anhilator into Heavy Bolter Sponsons instead of being the same hull mounted Twin Heavy Bolter/AssCan on the Land Raider.

On the flip side they all do appear to be on the same chassis so they would be more accurately Predators and we haven't seen a Land Raider chassis replacement yet. Which would be nice, I'd like a Transport 16 for Aggressors.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





Apparently Gravis is the new Terminator armor and doesn't get to ride the new transport. So we were both right in a way.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/10 19:03:55


Drager wrote:
I'd heard there would be a clatter, then perhaps a hiss, but that's not what it's like. We'd all been told that these things lurked in vents and crevices, that they could sneak up on a man no matter how alert, but that just wasn't what happened. We saw them coming, well, we heard them first, an ear-splitting boom as they accelerated across the plain. They must have been 2 miles away when we heard the crack, but we barely had time to lift our weapons before they were on us and then... past us. Running faster than I could follow. They didn't attack, didn't even try and it was then, as the whole platoon stared after them that a dread crept through me and I turned to see that which they had been running from.

-Infantryman Collins, 5th Umbra Rifles
 
   
 
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