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Not Online!!! wrote:

balmong7 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

I would love to see an announcement that FW units are going to be part of the codices moving forward and that the main rules team will write their rules. I still don't understand how GW can look at FW and say "Yeah we should totally pretend those units don't exist when writing the rules for the game, and then let FW write their own rules without ever reading the codices themselves. That will result in a fun game balance and not alienate the player base at all."

You are uninformed.
Ever since the unfortunate death of the Fw subdivision leader the gw Team has written fw rules.
That is basically 8th edition.

Also the most broken gak that was ever in 40k was solely gw main ruleteams failure.
(fish of fury)

Then I revise my wish to just "Include forgeworld units in the codices as parts of the army and update their rules and points with the same level of care and detail as the main codex units."

So basically 0 for most units. Except the few broken ones.
Good one.

I just want the appearance of a unified product line and well planned rules.

I just got the marine codex so I can't really comment on points there except for the obligatory terminators are too much.

DG, plague marines could go down 1 or 2. Seeing as how marines went down 1 I expect most marines to go down at least 1ppm

 fraser1191 wrote:
I just got the marine codex so I can't really comment on points there except for the obligatory terminators are too much.

DG, plague marines could go down 1 or 2. Seeing as how marines went down 1 I expect most marines to go down at least 1ppm

Shouldn't regular csm go down first before plague marines?

Drop all of the craftworld units that went up due to ynnari.
(reapers, specters, spears)

make aspects cheaper by a point or two.

Make Guardians to 6ppm(platform an stay same price) and drop DA to 8ppm.

All so that I can enjoy a footdar army like it used to be.

That's all thanks!.

I think if the hornet was cheaper in points for what it does id get some but currently you'd just take walkers over anything else rly..

Regarding the alitoic nerf, I think if you make so it doesn't apply to fliers and keep things as thye are will be better. My T3 dudes need that -1 bros...

I play Tau so what can I complain about...
Just crisis suits I suppose,
Reduce points or make BS3+
Maybe both?

I'd like to see the cost of the fw space marine super heavys come back down. No reason a fellblade should be over 200 points more than a castellan.

Gadzilla666 wrote:
I'd like to see the cost of the fw space marine super heavys come back down. No reason a fellblade should be over 200 points more than a castellan.

SM Superheavies fro FW have it allright compared to al the other FW superheavy stuff

But yeah, down with the fellbalde price, aswell as with the 4 big daemons.

The annoying thing is that the pl costs are about right but who plays power level?

Gadzilla666 wrote:
The annoying thing is that the pl costs are about right but who plays power level?

Sometimes, rarely, .

balmong7 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

I would love to see an announcement that FW units are going to be part of the codices moving forward and that the main rules team will write their rules. I still don't understand how GW can look at FW and say "Yeah we should totally pretend those units don't exist when writing the rules for the game, and then let FW write their own rules without ever reading the codices themselves. That will result in a fun game balance and not alienate the player base at all."

You are uninformed.
Ever since the unfortunate death of the Fw subdivision leader the gw Team has written fw rules.
That is basically 8th edition.

Also the most broken gak that was ever in 40k was solely gw main ruleteams failure.
(fish of fury)

Then I revise my wish to just "Include forgeworld units in the codices as parts of the army and update their rules and points with the same level of care and detail as the main codex units."

Precondition for that would be that they all would be turned into plastic. Otherwise GW wants gamers to not spend money on them

tneva82 wrote:

balmong7 wrote:
Then I revise my wish to just "Include forgeworld units in the codices as parts of the army and update their rules and points with the same level of care and detail as the main codex units."

Precondition for that would be that they all would be turned into plastic. Otherwise GW wants gamers to not spend money on them

What is making GW not want to do that currently, what is preventing them from making FW OP without putting it in codices? All options, including those from the index that have been discontinued and all the FW units should be present in the codex. If they want to discontinue a model all they'd have to do is hire a youtuber to create a video for how to make a proxy and post it on WHTV and say that's the new official model. FW always has and will continue to be a bad idea, just because it's on the GW website doesn't mean it can't be stupidly overpriced like much of FW is, it's not like GW has a reputation of producing affordable kits it has to uphold.

It makes no sense to discourage using fw because of price. They encourage us to run 3 150$ knights but the most expensive greater daemons are around 265$ fellblade runs 290$. Plus all those tournaments players running 3 leviathans at over 100$ a pop. Why do they care which big models they sell? Gw's business model is nuts.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
I just got the marine codex so I can't really comment on points there except for the obligatory terminators are too much.

DG, plague marines could go down 1 or 2. Seeing as how marines went down 1 I expect most marines to go down at least 1ppm

Shouldn't regular csm go down first before plague marines?

Well yeah csm fall into the "most" section for marines. I don't own normal csm so I don't think I should comment on their going ons

For Chaos Space Marines there’s a lot I’d like to see:

At a minimum drop the cost of cultist and chaos space marines by 1 pt. If we have to field inferior units the least they can be is the same cost as better units.

Remove the restriction on legion tactics. Granted most of these won’t change much but it would be a nice gesture. With this, change the alpha legion trait to the Raven Guard one.

Drop Obliterators to 100 pts

Make the shoot again stratagem 3pts and make the fight twice one 2pts.

Make Death Hex warp charge 7 to be in line with nullzone’s reduced cost

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
For Chaos Space Marines there’s a lot I’d like to see:

At a minimum drop the cost of cultist and chaos space marines by 1 pt. If we have to field inferior units the least they can be is the same cost as better units.

Remove the restriction on legion tactics. Granted most of these won’t change much but it would be a nice gesture. With this, change the alpha legion trait to the Raven Guard one.

Drop Obliterators to 100 pts

Make the shoot again stratagem 3pts and make the fight twice one 2pts.

Make Death Hex warp charge 7 to be in line with nullzone’s reduced cost

Agree on cultists and csm.
Disagree about AL.
Agree about obliterators.
Agree about the cp price switch, shouldn't even have been so since csm 1.0
Agree on death hex.

Amy wide -1 to hit needs to leave though. Its too good. At least with cover you can bypass that with AP. Can't do that with blanket -1 to hit.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Amy wide -1 to hit needs to leave though. Its too good. At least with cover you can bypass that with AP. Can't do that with blanket -1 to hit.

And cover just flat out can get ignored by alot of traits. Traits that favour even more shooting.
I say no.
Shooting does not need to get even more out of hand than it allready did and whilest -1 to hit is highly annoying for bad shooting armies (orkz, IG, r&h) I still prefer that over even more shooting.

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
For Chaos Space Marines there’s a lot I’d like to see:

At a minimum drop the cost of cultist and chaos space marines by 1 pt. If we have to field inferior units the least they can be is the same cost as better units.

Remove the restriction on legion tactics. Granted most of these won’t change much but it would be a nice gesture. With this, change the alpha legion trait to the Raven Guard one.

Drop Obliterators to 100 pts

Make the shoot again stratagem 3pts and make the fight twice one 2pts.

Make Death Hex warp charge 7 to be in line with nullzone’s reduced cost

Deathhex can safely be cast from behind a wall of screening unit's at distance, while nullzone being an aura, it's range of 6 inches does make it an almost guaranteed trade of librarian for whatever you wanted to nullzone. I can see a justification for diffrences in cast value.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Amy wide -1 to hit needs to leave though. Its too good. At least with cover you can bypass that with AP. Can't do that with blanket -1 to hit.

And cover just flat out can get ignored by alot of traits. Traits that favour even more shooting.
I say no.
Shooting does not need to get even more out of hand than it allready did and whilest -1 to hit is highly annoying for bad shooting armies (orkz, IG, r&h) I still prefer that over even more shooting.

How about you can only generate a -1 to be hit on your own units, a flat 20% or more damage reduction as a trait is pretty good return compaired to a number of other traits.

How about you can only generate a -1 to be hit on your own units, a flat 20% or more damage reduction as a trait is pretty good return compaired to a number of other traits.

So you mean like deny stacking of -1 to hit in shooting?

(btw it's just a reduction of 1/6th, not 20%)

Because that would be hightime.
-2 should not ever have existed when armies exist that just hit on 2 results.

-1 to hit isn't that bad but you shouldn't be able to stack it like some armies (eldar). If the attacking player wants to do something that gives them another minus to hit (e.g. moving with heavy weapons) that's their fault but you shouldn't be able to make yourself basically untargetable.

Gadzilla666 wrote:
-1 to hit isn't that bad but you shouldn't be able to stack it like some armies (eldar). If the attacking player wants to do something that gives them another minus to hit (e.g. moving with heavy weapons) that's their fault but you shouldn't be able to make yourself basically untargetable.

Yep this.

Not Online!!! wrote:

How about you can only generate a -1 to be hit on your own units, a flat 20% or more damage reduction as a trait is pretty good return compaired to a number of other traits.

So you mean like deny stacking of -1 to hit in shooting?

(btw it's just a reduction of 1/6th, not 20%)

Because that would be hightime.
-2 should not ever have existed when armies exist that just hit on 2 results.

If you hit on 3+ you hit 24/36 if you hit on 4+ you hit 18/36. If you go from 3+ to 4+ you hit 18/24 or 3/4 times that you usually would, that's 25% less, for BS 4+ or +1 Tesla it's 33%, 5+ or tesla it's 50% less. Alpha Legion absolutely needs to be nerfed. I'd appreciate some more pts discussion since this thread was never supposed to be relevant to rules since CA2018 didn't change rules much.

 vict0988 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

How about you can only generate a -1 to be hit on your own units, a flat 20% or more damage reduction as a trait is pretty good return compaired to a number of other traits.

So you mean like deny stacking of -1 to hit in shooting?

(btw it's just a reduction of 1/6th, not 20%)

Because that would be hightime.
-2 should not ever have existed when armies exist that just hit on 2 results.

If you hit on 3+ you hit 24/36 if you hit on 4+ you hit 18/36. If you go from 3+ to 4+ you hit 18/24 or 3/4 times that you usually would, that's 25% less. Alpha Legion absolutely needs to be nerfed. I'd appreciate some more pts discussion since this thread was never supposed to be relevant to rules since CA2018 didn't change rules much.

And I state i disagree due to the overbearing lethality of shooting.

Now if you would also price up cheap shooting units propperly, read full 1 pts on the following units i would be very willing to depart from -1 to hit.
Cabal, IG squad, veterans, scouts, firewarriors.
Then yes, we can discuss removing it.

Before that, hard pass.

Not Online!!! wrote:


And I state i disagree due to the overbearing lethality of shooting.

Now if you would also price up cheap shooting units propperly, read full 1 pts on the following units i would be very willing to depart from -1 to hit.
Cabal, IG squad, veterans, scouts, firewarriors.
Then yes, we can discuss removing it.

Before that, hard pass.

I mean, this is exactly the thread for discussing the units you think need to go up in pts to allow armies to not get blown away if they aren't DG or AL. I'm not sure that Veterans need to cost more pts, they aren't Troops, that means no cheap Veteran Battalions and no ObSec. Fire Warriors would be perfectly fair with a nerf to Tau Sept and Fireblades, it's really only the 30" gun that's any good and it's only really devastating when taken as part of Tau Sept with Fireblade backup. Increasing the cost of the 30" by 1 pt would open up a lot of options for Tau players.

 vict0988 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:


And I state i disagree due to the overbearing lethality of shooting.

Now if you would also price up cheap shooting units propperly, read full 1 pts on the following units i would be very willing to depart from -1 to hit.
Cabal, IG squad, veterans, scouts, firewarriors.
Then yes, we can discuss removing it.

Before that, hard pass.

I mean, this is exactly the thread for discussing the units you think need to go up in pts to allow armies to not get blown away if they aren't DG or AL. I'm not sure that Veterans need to cost more pts, they aren't Troops, that means no cheap Veteran Battalions and no ObSec. Fire Warriors would be perfectly fair with a nerf to Tau Sept and Fireblades, it's really only the 30" gun that's any good and it's only really devastating when taken as part of Tau Sept with Fireblade backup. Increasing the cost of the 30" by 1 pt would open up a lot of options for Tau players.

And whilest at it, why do eldar rangers profit from traits?

Not Online!!! wrote:
And whilest at it, why do eldar rangers profit from traits?

They grew up on their Craftworld and occasionally return to aid in combat and recognisance. The culture of their craftworld is probably almost as ingrained as it is in their brethren. You'd probably see as much difference between two groups of rangers from different Craftworlds if not more than you would two similar Aspect groups from different Craftworlds. Is the culture of the Aspect bigger or smaller than the culture of being an outcast?

 vict0988 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
And whilest at it, why do eldar rangers profit from traits?

They grew up on their Craftworld and occasionally return to aid in combat and recognisance. The culture of their craftworld is probably almost as ingrained as it is in their brethren. You'd probably see as much difference between two groups of rangers from different Craftworlds if not more than you would two similar Aspect groups from different Craftworlds. Is the culture of the Aspect bigger or smaller than the culture of being an outcast?

Are we conveniently ignoring that these are also recruited out of exodites?
They are a problem unit with traits. Remove traits, equal long pikes for everyone now should that be the case?

Storm shields should go up. 10 points for a 3+ invul? Anyone else sick of pouring tons of high ap wounds into terminators/custodes/captains and getting nothing? Also in regards to al remember if we get universal legion traits that means they apply to vehicles including flyers which basically turns them into aloitac.

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Storm shields should go up. 10 points for a 3+ invul? Anyone else sick of pouring tons of high ap wounds into terminators/custodes/captains and getting nothing? Also in regards to al remember if we get universal legion traits that means they apply to vehicles including flyers which basically turns them into aloitac.

The whole invulnerable save inflation of 8th has to do with the fact that the most basic Psy literally ignores anything else
Thank the MW mechanic for that.

I know that's why I pay for soulburners on my contemptor but 10 points for a 3+ invul is ridiculous.