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 Ishagu wrote:
I would love a big, Guilliman sized Ghaz who is also a lord of War.

He would be as strong in close combat, and would dish out some substantial army boosts.

Auto pass morale within 6"
+1 to charge and advance
All units within 6" can heroically intervene
+1 attack to units within 6" on the charge

Ork shooting is very powerful, and the only balancing factor is their poor BS - I wouldn't have any Ork character grant re rolls to hit - it's not very Orky lol

I think some ork character should have auras like that though more niche. ghaz and warbosses granting reroll 1's to hit in the assault phase. to units within 6 inches or something (mayeb warbosses only if ghaz has something special like above.

most other armies have good aura abilities which seem to be a staple of 8th ours... just kinda suck comparatively (aside from waagh which is out bread and butter... but orks used to be given to every unit without needing an aura in past codexii , so does it count as a useful aura if it was taken away from the army to put in as an aura?)

kff big mek 5++ for units wholly within 9 inches. only really good for hordes, might have been good for vehicle lists but when embarked in a vehicle it only affects the vehicle itself not surrounding models.

boss zag - on makes stormboys ignore morale... ok its fearless but fearless on a highly overcosted unit and that unit cannot mob up to a proper size anymore so is kind of dead. I still run him as a solo unit and he is a baller but the rest of the stormboys are left at home.

warbosses can inflict d3 mortal wounds on a unit to pass morale within 6" sometimes useful but by the time the unit is small enough to need to take morale they are liekly to lose just as many from the d3. it is situational though and occationally useful.

Warbosses also grant waagh though which lets units in 6" charge after advancing literally, our army does not function without this, This used to be army wide and not require an aura but GW took it away form a normal ability in favor of auras so glass half full here.

Ghaz gives an extra attack in the turn they charged within 6" of ghaz... so its the space marines new stock ability but required our strongest most expensive HQ. This is lackluster to say the least). he also gives waagh and the inflict d3 mortals to pass morale

kaptain badrukk - reroll hits of a 1 for himself and flash gitz only within 6".... you would see him a lot more if it were all hits of 1 for any unit. given his cost it should be all proper ork units (not gretchin so not affecting mek guns as that would be to strong)

nob w/ waagh banner - +1 to hit in the fight phase within 6". its nice but usually overkill. I mostly include him because while the model has a powerclaw it chooses to instead hit things with the waaagh banner which is basically the orkiest thing ever.

lastly the severly overcosted painboy... oh how i wish he were good

painboy - here is where GW's either not understanding balance of favoritism for other armis comes in. for 15 points more than a space marine apothicary we get... worse BS at 5+ though it doesn't mater since the apothicary gets a bolt pistol and we have no ranged weapon. +1 attack (though the apothicary has a chainsword so really the same) a worse armor save then an apothicary (3+ vs 6+) plsu we lose an inch of movement. The painboy does add a str so str 5 vs 4 and has a power claw but on a medic that is mostly useless as you have to take it and you want him alive and not in combat.

also on the painbody while the space marine apothicary chooses a model and restores d3 wounds to it... the ork model rolls a D6 and on a 1 it suffers a mortal wound but heals the same d3 wounds on a 2+ so 16.6% chance of making the target worse... why did GW add this? I get that in the fluff sometimes painboys do more harm then good but this is literally just throwing in a penalty to take a unit.

also you can take the painboy on a bike to have a more mobile more expensive mostly useless unit. though at least e is a character on a bike so he functions as a mobile objective grabber but that is a niche use of 103 points and its only an index options so some players/flgs and tournaments do not allow it.

our painbody also cannot revive dead squad members, instead he gives a 6++ within 3" ... yes you ready that right within 3" now it dos affect the unit so can be daisy chaned up but usually affects only 1 unit and 2 max without badly compromising position.

Just make Ghaz a good krumper in HtH (with suitable delivery method) and I'll be happy enough.

Breton wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
I would love a big, Guilliman sized Ghaz who is also a lord of War.

He would be as strong in close combat, and would dish out some substantial army boosts.

Auto pass morale within 6"
+1 to charge and advance
All units within 6" can heroically intervene
+1 attack to units within 6" on the charge

Ork shooting is very powerful, and the only balancing factor is their poor BS - I wouldn't have any Ork character grant re rolls to hit - it's not very Orky lol

Auto Pass Morale isn't very Orky either. A morale boost is in order, but not auto-pass. Not even Guilliman + ATSKNF etc do that.

Also his abilities should be - like Guilliman - split between Faction: Orks, and Faction: Goffs. Lesser abilities at 12" for Orks, strong abilities at 6" for Goffs.

orks have had fearless in past editions, usually your declared waagh granted it for that turn. currently orks already have morale immunity for d3 mortal wounds when the warboss is around. though honestly once an ork unit is down to numebrs needing morale the d3 is takign half the squad anyway

on the second part... no, just no. first off, in the fluff ghaz will lead every kulture under a waaagh he does not just pal around with goffs the way guilliman mostly now will be with ultramarines. Orks while having different cultures will fight and take directions from other cultures in a waaagh. Also you know darn well while other chapters are likely to get primarchs back orks are not going to get a ghaz equivalent to each culture ever. heck we used to have character for most clans but thanks to the chapterhouse lawsuit most of them are gone. now we only have goffs, a freeboota and a blood axes character. We have one evil suns character if you count forgeworld... but he is just a warboss on a bike that autoadvances 6 inches instead of rolling a dice, loses the ability to let bikers also charge and advance vs normal warboss on a bike, but gets 1 more wound... for a 20+% points increase (he garbage)

tneva82 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I hope that means we'll get a generic MA Warboss, as it would be possible to run Ghaz as a generic dude. If GW really wanted to they could make a dual kit.

Throw in a plastic Weird Boy and a generic big mek and I'll be happy.

Dual kit runs into issue that Ghaz is fluffiwise supposed to be spectaculary huge. Would kind of be weird to have suddenly bunch of generic equally big dudes running around. Imagine generic space marine captain Guilliman sized.

somewhat agree here. I do want a lord of war ghaz but would be cool to also have a "make your own primeork" option there. functionally the same template as ghaz but choose a few different buff abilities to replace his.

Breton wrote:
Auto Pass Morale isn't very Orky either. A morale boost is in order, but not auto-pass. Not even Guilliman + ATSKNF etc do that.

What.
He already has this ability, just like every other warboss. Bosses and nobz smacking the ladz into order when they fail morale has been a core thing of the ork army since at least fourth edition.
Just because Gulliman is too much a whimp to smack his primaris boyz in the head, doesn't mean Thrakka is.

Also his abilities should be - like Guilliman - split between Faction: Orks, and Faction: Goffs. Lesser abilities at 12" for Orks, strong abilities at 6" for Goffs.

Except Thrakka is known to lead armies of any clan, and appears to be leading other clans more often than he is leading Goff. Completely unlike Gulliman.

Right now he provides +1 Attack and Waaagh! to infantry and The Boss is Watchin' to all orks within 6". His warlord trait gives him +1A -1AP
He could do with a skill that shows of his tactical genius (extra CP?), promote other warbosses to leftennunts (his right hands in fluff) or simply increase the range of the auras he already has. +1 to hit in combat would also be nice, because no one want more re-rolls on orks.
He himself is proper killy, 7 S12 AP-4 D3 attacks with exploding sixes on the charge is nice, but he could do with a better gun.

Right now his biggest problems are that he needs to be on the front in order to be worth his points, but has little means to get there. Our transports are all terrible and can only carry him if they are goff as well, da jumping or tellyporting a single model is not worth it, and orks just jogging across the board will never get there. Giving him an exception like freebootas got would at least solve the transport problem.

 G00fySmiley wrote:


on the second part... no, just no. first off, in the fluff ghaz will lead every kulture under a waaagh he does not just pal around with goffs the way guilliman mostly now will be with ultramarines.

You mean the Lord Commander of the Imperium, who ran the Indomitus Crusade utilizing what amounted to a Legion of mixed geneseed Space Marines, plus untold Battlesisters, Astra Militarum, and Mechanicus? Glad you cleared that preferred ally thing up. At least we're agreed there isn't any sort of strategic and tactical difference - represented as Chapter Traits - that the Orks have. Can you imagine if they had some sort of... Klan Kulture that gave a leader some sort of affinity to one Klan over another.

Orks while having different cultures will fight and take directions from other cultures in a waaagh. Also you know darn well while other chapters are likely to get primarchs back orks are not going to get a ghaz equivalent to each culture ever.

I suspect it. I also suspect the plans for doing so will be shelved and Guilliman will end up back in Stasis when they change their mind.

heck we used to have character for most clans but thanks to the chapterhouse lawsuit most of them are gone. now we only have goffs, a freeboota and a blood axes character. We have one evil suns character if you count forgeworld... but he is just a warboss on a bike that autoadvances 6 inches instead of rolling a dice, loses the ability to let bikers also charge and advance vs normal warboss on a bike, but gets 1 more wound... for a 20+% points increase (he garbage)

So you're saying you should be able to do it, but Space Marines shouldn't. Because supposedly at some point they'll get their Primarch. Hopefully. Unless he's dead, like Ferrus Manus. And they don't run out of time before the creative mind in charge changes their mind again. You're arguing for your army, not a balanced game with options.

Dual kit runs into issue that Ghaz is fluffiwise supposed to be spectaculary huge. Would kind of be weird to have suddenly bunch of generic equally big dudes running around. Imagine generic space marine captain Guilliman sized.

somewhat agree here. I do want a lord of war ghaz but would be cool to also have a "make your own primeork" option there. functionally the same template as ghaz but choose a few different buff abilities to replace his.

So now you DO want a Primeork for each Klan, but they still shouldn't be Klan specific abilities for Ghaz?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

Except Thrakka is known to lead armies of any clan, and appears to be leading other clans more often than he is leading Goff. Completely unlike Gulliman.

Lord Commander Of The Imperium. Indomitus Crusade. Grey Shields. Battle Sisters, Adeptus Mechanicum, Astra Militarum. Guilliman has a lower powered Imperium aura with a bigger area. Ghaz should be the same with Ork/Goff.

Right now he provides +1 Attack and Waaagh! to infantry and The Boss is Watchin' to all orks within 6". His warlord trait gives him +1A -1AP
He could do with a skill that shows of his tactical genius (extra CP?), promote other warbosses to leftennunts (his right hands in fluff) or simply increase the range of the auras he already has. +1 to hit in combat would also be nice, because no one want more re-rolls on orks.
He himself is proper killy, 7 S12 AP-4 D3 attacks with exploding sixes on the charge is nice, but he could do with a better gun.

Right now his biggest problems are that he needs to be on the front in order to be worth his points, but has little means to get there. Our transports are all terrible and can only carry him if they are goff as well, da jumping or tellyporting a single model is not worth it, and orks just jogging across the board will never get there. Giving him an exception like freebootas got would at least solve the transport problem.

Tell me more about not being able to fit in a transport, or make use of an apothecary because you're a Monster not an Infantry - or even having an option to Da Jump, or Tellyport. If Ghaz becomes a PrimeOrk he's going to be a MONSTER so transports won't matter anyway.

Gulliman hasn't done anything that, Helbrecht, Calgar or Yarrik haven't done. None of them have buffs for IMPERIUM units.

Thrakka has no special ties with the Goff whatsoever, the only reason he has that keyword is because he was a goff boy before he got the brain squig. From that point onward he has been using all kkans equally, with his closest allies all not being Goff (Nazdregg, Grotznik, Orkimedes).

Gullimans Ultramarine auras symbolizes how a primarch inspires his sons and how the strive to show their best in his wake. Thrakka does nothing of the like.

As for the childish "you shouldn't get what we don't get". How about we change Gulliman to lose all his auras unless he is within 12" of an enemy? If we get all downsides of Gulliman, he should be getting all of Thrakkas downsides.