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the_scotsman wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
But Intercessors cant stop overwatch, charge +3 inches with advance and charge, and are -1 to hit in melee, that means they are 4+ to hit against them. They also cost more, but at the same time dont have the same psychic/stratagem support.

Banshees can literally charge from 40" away, re-roll hits/wounds, stop overwatch vs any number of viable targets and can get a 3+ save as well, sure you wont do all those things at once, but those are options. You can make them more killy or more tanky.

If you have 5 intercessors on 1 objective, then banshees taking it from them are a good unit to have, charge some odd 30" give the leader the Executioner blade (+1str, -3, D3) that'll leave 1.5-2 guys left, you consolidate to stop them from falling back. Now they attack you with what 5 attacks as WS 4+ now killing maybe 1.


Yeah, in order to charge some odd 30" and reroll hits and wounds you just need to buy a Farseer, a Spiritseer, and then cheat I guess because there's a +1 to wound spell but not a reroll wounds spell, we'll assume you meant that so two spiritseers.



I stopped reading there b.c you are wrong.

Jump out of WS for 3"
Move 8" +D6
Spend CP on 1 stratagem
Charge 2D6 +5

2D6 average 7, D6 average 3.5 (10.5), 8+5+3 = 6, an average of 27.5" without any powers, and i said some odd 30" b.c i did 1sec math in my head to get the point across. The Re-roll 1's to hit is also that stratagem.

So... no you dont need all those characters to charge near 30" with some re-rolls.



@Xenomancers Yes each unit specialized against each other, but THATS WHAT ELDAR DOES, each unit is good at 1 thing, you take that 1 thing to be good at it, Banshees are long range chargers, they are easily able to get into melee and get into it without being shot at via overwatch.

Edit: @Xenomancers

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/03 16:39:45


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 Amishprn86 wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
But Intercessors cant stop overwatch, charge +3 inches with advance and charge, and are -1 to hit in melee, that means they are 4+ to hit against them. They also cost more, but at the same time dont have the same psychic/stratagem support.

Banshees can literally charge from 40" away, re-roll hits/wounds, stop overwatch vs any number of viable targets and can get a 3+ save as well, sure you wont do all those things at once, but those are options. You can make them more killy or more tanky.

If you have 5 intercessors on 1 objective, then banshees taking it from them are a good unit to have, charge some odd 30" give the leader the Executioner blade (+1str, -3, D3) that'll leave 1.5-2 guys left, you consolidate to stop them from falling back. Now they attack you with what 5 attacks as WS 4+ now killing maybe 1.


Yeah, in order to charge some odd 30" and reroll hits and wounds you just need to buy a Farseer, a Spiritseer, and then cheat I guess because there's a +1 to wound spell but not a reroll wounds spell, we'll assume you meant that so two spiritseers.



I stopped reading there b.c you are wrong.

Jump out of WS for 3"
Move 8" +D6
Spend CP on 1 stratagem
Charge 2D6 +5

2D6 average 7, D6 average 3.5 (10.5), 8+5+3 = 6, an average of 27.5" without any powers, and i said some odd 30" b.c i did 1sec math in my head to get the point across. The Re-roll 1's to hit is also that stratagem.

So... no you dont need all those characters to charge near 30" with some re-rolls.



@Xenomancers Yes each unit specialized against each other, but THATS WHAT ELDAR DOES, each unit is good at 1 thing, you take that 1 thing to be good at it, Banshees are long range chargers, they are easily able to get into melee and get into it without being shot at via overwatch.

Edit: @Xenomancers


So you stopped reading where I noted that equal points of banshees never seize an objective from the Intercessors they're supposedly "Specialized against" and in fact lose in melee to them over time? Eeeeeeeeeven if you spend CP on them for Stratagems, a thing you don't have to do if you use Dark Reapers for that job instead?

A howling banshee, anti-MEQ specialist, does 0.37 damage to MEQs in melee for 11pts.

A Dark Reaper, Anti-MEQ specialist, deals 1.48 damage to MEQs in melee for 34pts.

Even accounting for the fact the banshees stop the Intercessors from shooting their rifles (they *only* get to make 3 attacks total in their turn with pistols and fists, as opposed to the 2 attacks they'd get with their bolt rifles...wait....) the Dark Reapers do the objective game better by just...sitting on their own objectives while shooting the marines off of theirs incredibly effectively.

I do agree that you've identified the theoretical job the howling banshees have. They can charge a long distance! They can also get into melee combat with no overwatch! That's great. The problem is, 2 S3 AP-3 D1 attacks for 13pts is just hot garbage. A wych with any Cult Trait is more efficient at removing MEQs with her AP- "Anti-horde" knife than a banshee is with her "Anti-MEQ" power sword. And is also statistically much more survivable thanks to their lower cost and the Dodge save, even against AP- weapons where the banshee gets the full 4+.

Also, which stratagem are you using to get any kind of rerolls in melee without psychic powers? Because you first said "oh they have more psychic power support, being melee units" which I mostly took to mean you've got stuff like the Runes of Battle powers, +1 to hit +1 to wound in melee that kind of thing, but those require 65pt support characters to cast them. Now you're saying you get that without support but with a stratagem? The only melee strat I see that gives any rerolls is The Great Enemy, which is...a little niche. There's supreme disdain, which gives exploding sixes and is kinda just bad and not super worth a CP, but that's not a reroll either.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/03 17:20:49


 
   
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I also gave example so you had options for them to be able to kill something important. If you needed that objective turn 1 or 2, you cant just shoot them off with Dark Reapers b.c you wont be close enough to hold that objective. You could shoot them till 2-3 are dead then charge in, a few shuriken weapons will do that well enough, now you can finish off the Banshee squad and hold that objective.

You can also do the same with Shining Spears, Windriders, etc.. but the banshee's also gives you the option to tie up units like Tau has, or Rhinos with guys inside, or Predators, or etc..

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/03 17:02:11


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 Amishprn86 wrote:
I also gave example so you had options for them to be able to kill something important. If you needed that objective turn 1 or 2, you cant just shoot them off with Dark Reapers b.c you wont be close enough to hold that objective. You could shoot them till 2-3 are dead then charge in, a few shuriken weapons will do that well enough, now you can finish off the Banshee squad and hold that objective.

You can also do the same with Shining Spears, Windriders, etc.. but the banshee's also gives you the option to tie up units like Tau has, or Rhinos with guys inside, or Predators, or etc..


Sure. Again: The theoretical niche is there. When you want something charged, but you don't want to overwatch it, and you don't need obsec or killing power or the ability to reliably stop fallback via some sort of ability that actually prevents it from happening so you're just going to hope your opponent pulls a whoopsie and leaves you a model to kidnap, then Howling Banshees are your gals!

I feel like in the age of primaris marines all trying to do the same thing with varying degrees of success we've forgotten that it's possible for a unit to have a job distinct from other options and be just...bad at it.

I wonder how many decent competitive lists we've seen taking this vital weapon in the aeldari arsenal since the codex released?



....



Those models sure are gonna sell like hotcakes if they give them no rules updates, boy howdy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/03 17:08:19


 
   
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Russia, Moscow

What 11 points? Banshees cost more than that. Do you count an Exarch into minimal 5 girl unit or something?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/03 17:12:02


 
   
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On moon miranda.

Banshees are a unit stuck in a paradigm where power swords ignored all armor save entirely, where winning combat by 1 wound could break the enemy and their I5 init could trivially sweep the entire remaining unit, and they could hide by consolidation into a new combat. The unit has never seriously been looked at or retooled since that 3E/4E era.

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 Shadenuat wrote:
What 11 points? Banshees cost more than that. Do you count an Exarch into minimal 5 girl unit or something?


They are 13, the Exarch is also 13.

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 Shadenuat wrote:
What 11 points? Banshees cost more than that. Do you count an Exarch into minimal 5 girl unit or something?


Yup, you're right. Sorry.

So, the stuff I just typed, but 18% worse than I thought. My Bad XD.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Vaktathi wrote:
Banshees are a unit stuck in a paradigm where power swords ignored all armor save entirely, where winning combat by 1 wound could break the enemy and their I5 init could trivially sweep the entire remaining unit, and they could hide by consolidation into a new combat. The unit has never seriously been looked at or retooled since that 3E/4E era.


they'll be super great in 9th edition, with that sweet leaked ruleset (see spoiler below)

Spoiler:
Warhammer 40,000 tm 9th tm edition

THE GAME:

Both players should set up their games workshop models on a flat surface where they won't fall down. Put some terrain on there, ideally purchased from your local Warhammer Shop.

Players should roll off to see who takes the first turn.

On your turn, select one of your units to activate. Tell your opponent which Wargear (tm) they are using to kill their guys, and make a suitable "Pchoo Pchoo" noise to indicate the killing. Your opponent must then remove the target unit.

Continue until you have activated all of your models. It is then, if applicable, your opponent's turn. If not applicable, set your models back up and play again."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/03 17:28:05


 
   
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The Banshee cannot work in the current framework for the same reason Ork Boyz are da-jumped instead of being able to rush forward on trukk like in 3rd, mad-max style.

The game has gained all the volume and lost all the subtlety. Obviously, most Aspect would be victim of this new scope and scale.

Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
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 Amishprn86 wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
But Intercessors cant stop overwatch, charge +3 inches with advance and charge, and are -1 to hit in melee, that means they are 4+ to hit against them. They also cost more, but at the same time dont have the same psychic/stratagem support.

Banshees can literally charge from 40" away, re-roll hits/wounds, stop overwatch vs any number of viable targets and can get a 3+ save as well, sure you wont do all those things at once, but those are options. You can make them more killy or more tanky.

If you have 5 intercessors on 1 objective, then banshees taking it from them are a good unit to have, charge some odd 30" give the leader the Executioner blade (+1str, -3, D3) that'll leave 1.5-2 guys left, you consolidate to stop them from falling back. Now they attack you with what 5 attacks as WS 4+ now killing maybe 1.


Yeah, in order to charge some odd 30" and reroll hits and wounds you just need to buy a Farseer, a Spiritseer, and then cheat I guess because there's a +1 to wound spell but not a reroll wounds spell, we'll assume you meant that so two spiritseers.



I stopped reading there b.c you are wrong.

Jump out of WS for 3"
Move 8" +D6
Spend CP on 1 stratagem
Charge 2D6 +5

2D6 average 7, D6 average 3.5 (10.5), 8+5+3 = 6, an average of 27.5" without any powers, and i said some odd 30" b.c i did 1sec math in my head to get the point across. The Re-roll 1's to hit is also that stratagem.

So... no you dont need all those characters to charge near 30" with some re-rolls.

So you're spending a CP to bank on rolling 14 on 3d6 to hit a 30" charge into whatever the opponent plopped in front of them. Congratulations, you tie up their frontliners in 16% of your game. Assuming the frontliners are vehicles or somesuch, yay, that helps. If they're guardsmen, you're likely losing the banshees in CC. And the other ~80% of the time, you've got a MEQ-priced T3 4+ with no other defenses right in front of the enemy, unable to shoot or anything. At MEQ prices.

To average over 75%, you're looking at an *8* or lower on 3d6. Which means a total distance of 24". In comparison, what's the average charge range of White Scar Bikes?

Sure, you can pile into a Fire Warrior squad. But that squad kills a few Banshees in rebuttle, then falls back next turn. Or their buddies just pile in and just kill the Banshees in CC. If you think T4 3+ dies to quick to small arms - you should see how quickly T3 4+ does.

And, because you are relying on a stratagem, only 1 unit can do this. In an army that has nothing really to support this forward push. So you're sending out that one unit hoping they can hold the line. A Guardsman/FireWarrior/Kab unit will tarpit them or actually kill them. An equal-number *tac* squad will wipe the floor with them on the charge as a rebuttle. So, at best, you may have stopped a tank or two from firing for one round, if your opponent put it on the front lines unsupported. But then there's no troops in the game that doesn't wipe out the Banshees the following turn. And if their front line were any sort of troops, you're gonna have a bad time.

Banshees have their uses, but not as a T1 shock-and-awe assault.

As for shock-and-awe, with the stratagem they have what, a 2" advantage over White Scar bikers?
   
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Banshees are fun to use in casual games, and their long-bomb charges and ability to prevent overwatch does make them a situationally-useful tarpit unit. But killy they are not.

Part of me actually kind of likes the idea of being able to field less-killy banshees that emphasize speed and tarpitting over raw killyness, but killy banshees really should be an option.

Maybe that's how exarchs could be approached in the future. Bring back purchasable exarch powers, and have the exarch weapons support different battlefield roles. So a banshee squad with Acrobatics and Mirror Swords might be better at long charges and tarpitting, but a Banshee Squad with Onslaught and an Executioner would maximize killing power.
   
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Bharring wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
But Intercessors cant stop overwatch, charge +3 inches with advance and charge, and are -1 to hit in melee, that means they are 4+ to hit against them. They also cost more, but at the same time dont have the same psychic/stratagem support.

Banshees can literally charge from 40" away, re-roll hits/wounds, stop overwatch vs any number of viable targets and can get a 3+ save as well, sure you wont do all those things at once, but those are options. You can make them more killy or more tanky.

If you have 5 intercessors on 1 objective, then banshees taking it from them are a good unit to have, charge some odd 30" give the leader the Executioner blade (+1str, -3, D3) that'll leave 1.5-2 guys left, you consolidate to stop them from falling back. Now they attack you with what 5 attacks as WS 4+ now killing maybe 1.


Yeah, in order to charge some odd 30" and reroll hits and wounds you just need to buy a Farseer, a Spiritseer, and then cheat I guess because there's a +1 to wound spell but not a reroll wounds spell, we'll assume you meant that so two spiritseers.



I stopped reading there b.c you are wrong.

Jump out of WS for 3"
Move 8" +D6
Spend CP on 1 stratagem
Charge 2D6 +5

2D6 average 7, D6 average 3.5 (10.5), 8+5+3 = 6, an average of 27.5" without any powers, and i said some odd 30" b.c i did 1sec math in my head to get the point across. The Re-roll 1's to hit is also that stratagem.

So... no you dont need all those characters to charge near 30" with some re-rolls.

So you're spending a CP to bank on rolling 14 on 3d6 to hit a 30" charge into whatever the opponent plopped in front of them.



I didnt say 14", i said 10.5" which is the average of 3D6 , literally said this "2D6 average 7, D6 average 3.5 (10.5)" where do you get this 14" from? They have a rule that also gives them +3" to your charge, with te stratagem its an additional +2" to the charge, so the average now would be 15.5", again where did you get the 14" from?

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Russia, Moscow

Sure, you can pile into a Fire Warrior squad. But that squad kills a few Banshees in rebuttle

Let's not go overboard here, you need like 20 FW to kill one. One of the units they can block safely.
   
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I don't think anyone is arguing that banshees are good. They do have uses though and they are uniquely capable in those uses. The truth is that isn't going to help you kill a knight.

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It's not going to help you kill...almost anything is kind of the point of the thread.

When someone asks "Why can't Banshees kill stuff really well?"

The answer is not "Well they can run really fast and tie things up!"

That's a vague justification to Banshees having any purpose in the army. God forbid we'd like a close combat unit which...can actually do close combat. That's the entire crux of this thread.

 
   
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 Amishprn86 wrote:
But Intercessors cant stop overwatch, charge +3 inches with advance and charge, and are -1 to hit in melee, that means they are 4+ to hit against them. They also cost more, but at the same time dont have the same psychic/stratagem support.

Banshees can literally charge from 40" away, re-roll hits/wounds, stop overwatch vs any number of viable targets and can get a 3+ save as well, sure you wont do all those things at once, but those are options. You can make them more killy or more tanky.

If you have 5 intercessors on 1 objective, then banshees taking it from them are a good unit to have, charge some odd 30" give the leader the Executioner blade (+1str, -3, D3) that'll leave 1.5-2 guys left, you consolidate to stop them from falling back. Now they attack you with what 5 attacks as WS 4+ now killing maybe 1.


Before the codex update maybe. White Scar Intercessors can do all that stuff outside the 30" charge, they max out at ... [does back-of-the-envelope math from memory] ... 30" iirc. Huh. Average is only 22" though. That's stacking a relic, warlord trait, and two psychic powers, although in all fairness one Libby can carry it all.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/04 11:57:43


 
   
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 Elbows wrote:
It's not going to help you kill...almost anything is kind of the point of the thread.

When someone asks "Why can't Banshees kill stuff really well?"

The answer is not "Well they can run really fast and tie things up!"

That's a vague justification to Banshees having any purpose in the army. God forbid we'd like a close combat unit which...can actually do close combat. That's the entire crux of this thread.


Also, if a unit has to have the stars align just right in order for it to work, then it is far less useful and valuable compared to a unit that is easy and reliably useful.

That is what GW has historically done with Eldar special rules and called it "synergy". Give a special rule that is of limited bonus but only if certain conditions are met, but price the unit as if the conditions were in force and the bonus applied all the time. It amounted to a special rules tax. Synergy should be 1+1 = 3. The sum should be more than the individual parts, in order to be a reward for utilizing the separate parts into a unified whole.
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




Thanks for all the input. It's a shame that Banshees can only be used in "fun games" (they can can't they?) as opposed to "serious lists".

As a side note, are any of our Elite slotted units worth using? It seems like all I hear are troops (because we need CPs) and heavies with a good splash of fliers and occasionally shining spears. How are wee supposed to compete if we don't have anything to really work with? I know that there is an Eldar thread in the Tactics section but it gets pretty specific and/or esoteric in terms of practical use.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/04 12:28:22


 
   
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Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Thanks for all the input. It's a shame that Banshees can only be used in "fun games" (they can can't they?) as opposed to "serious lists".


Yeah, sure. In general, if your opponent isn't perfectly screening their gunline units/vehicles, banshees can be a decent tool for turning off, say, a Predator tank or something.

In competitive games, no unit like that will exist without a squad of guardsmen or something in front of it.
   
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Russia, Moscow

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
As a side note, are any of our Elite slotted units worth using?

Banshees (kek), Dragons (not as main AT, but as an extra threat from WS in MSU list), Wraithblades & Wraithguard.

So actually everything except Scorpions, those are a bit of a lost cause at this point.
   
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Ironically, they need to go back to their 2nd ed rules to fit into 8th.

S5 power swords.

Banshee mask means charged unit doesn't fight that turn.

 
   
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Sweden

 Daba wrote:
Ironically, they need to go back to their 2nd ed rules to fit into 8th.

S5 power swords.

Banshee mask means charged unit doesn't fight that turn.


That would be brutal!

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 Shadenuat wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
As a side note, are any of our Elite slotted units worth using?

Banshees (kek), Dragons (not as main AT, but as an extra threat from WS in MSU list), Wraithblades & Wraithguard.

So actually everything except Scorpions, those are a bit of a lost cause at this point.


Scorpions are decidedly "okay", but only because they received a points drop to 10 points a model. That's vaguely okay considering they have a 3+ armour save. Their rules are worded a little oddly but they actually get +1 to strike an opposing unit that is in cover. In theory that means in close combat and when shooting (so hitting on 2's if you pick a target well). Their mandiblasters are a solid bump. They're at least good in that they fire before combat every time...so you're shooting them when charged, when your opponent goes first, etc. They make the Scorpions more dangerous to a middling character than other things - the risk of luckily rolling 3-4 sixes can dissuade some people. Again though, at two attacks a model (if we're generous you get 2-3 mortal wounds from the masks)...they're dead meat against anything else in the game in close combat. For some reason they possess chainswords that don't give a bonus attack, but rather give you a Strength of 4 instead. I'd gladly trade that for normal chainswords and get more attacks, etc.

Again, it's very similar to Banshees. Their "cool" gimmicks don't mean a thing when your enemy is throwing 60-100 dice at you.

PS: Given the current status of Shuriken Catapults, it actually would have been cool to see a Shuriken Pistol become "Pistol 2" with an 8" range or something. This would suddenly give Banshees and Scorpions more firepower, and if they stayed locked in combat, more shooting then, etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/05 17:39:46


 
   
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 Amishprn86 wrote:
Bharring wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
But Intercessors cant stop overwatch, charge +3 inches with advance and charge, and are -1 to hit in melee, that means they are 4+ to hit against them. They also cost more, but at the same time dont have the same psychic/stratagem support.

Banshees can literally charge from 40" away, re-roll hits/wounds, stop overwatch vs any number of viable targets and can get a 3+ save as well, sure you wont do all those things at once, but those are options. You can make them more killy or more tanky.

If you have 5 intercessors on 1 objective, then banshees taking it from them are a good unit to have, charge some odd 30" give the leader the Executioner blade (+1str, -3, D3) that'll leave 1.5-2 guys left, you consolidate to stop them from falling back. Now they attack you with what 5 attacks as WS 4+ now killing maybe 1.


Yeah, in order to charge some odd 30" and reroll hits and wounds you just need to buy a Farseer, a Spiritseer, and then cheat I guess because there's a +1 to wound spell but not a reroll wounds spell, we'll assume you meant that so two spiritseers.



I stopped reading there b.c you are wrong.

Jump out of WS for 3"
Move 8" +D6
Spend CP on 1 stratagem
Charge 2D6 +5

2D6 average 7, D6 average 3.5 (10.5), 8+5+3 = 6, an average of 27.5" without any powers, and i said some odd 30" b.c i did 1sec math in my head to get the point across. The Re-roll 1's to hit is also that stratagem.

So... no you dont need all those characters to charge near 30" with some re-rolls.

So you're spending a CP to bank on rolling 14 on 3d6 to hit a 30" charge into whatever the opponent plopped in front of them.



I didnt say 14", i said 10.5" which is the average of 3D6 , literally said this "2D6 average 7, D6 average 3.5 (10.5)" where do you get this 14" from?

8" move + D6 + 3" Advance + 2d6 + 3" charge +2" for stratagem = 3d6 + 16" threat range.
charge some odd 30"

If you want 30" range on 3d6 + 16", you need a 14 on the 3d6. It'll happen, one out of five times. The other 80% of the time, you've just put a MEQ-priced unit with GEQ-level survivability into rapid fire, and they can't shoot or fight this turn. And you can only do this with a single unit.

They have a rule that also gives them +3" to your charge, with te stratagem its an additional +2" to the charge, so the average now would be 15.5", again where did you get the 14" from?
You're doublecounting. That stratagem and rule are part of the 16" constant included. Which is very far for infantry. Even farther than most bikes by two whole inches (coincidentally, what the stratagem brought)!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Shadenuat wrote:
Sure, you can pile into a Fire Warrior squad. But that squad kills a few Banshees in rebuttle

Let's not go overboard here, you need like 20 FW to kill one. One of the units they can block safely.

I got a bit overboard there, yes. I was thinking of "blocking" a core of Fire Warriors - so multiple max-person squads. Factoring in the Exarch, yeah, it's unlikely that the Fire Warriors will wipe Banshees quickly. They do tarpit them well, though. However, Guardsmen (or Kabs or Marines or most troops) are a different story; if you try to lock up something near a blob (like, 3+ troop units, maybe some support), that blob will typically wreck the Banshees in CC.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/05 19:47:11


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Banshees as a few others have noted a unit who seem to have been costed for an older editions rules. They are fast and ignoring overwatch is a neat trick but I don't care about s3 attacks even with a PS, especially in an edition where invuls and FNP is handed out like candy.

They have not staying power and the eldar have way better units to punk heavy infantry.
   
Made in nl
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




I think the easiest solution would be to give them +1S on their swords and +1A. Presto, a cost-effective Devastator-EQ eraser.
   
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Pandabeer wrote:
I think the easiest solution would be to give them +1S on their swords and +1A. Presto, a cost-effective Devastator-EQ eraser.


Yeah, you could even call them "Crone-blade" or something to tie into their Aspect. It is sort of weird that they of all aspects don't really have a unique weapon (I think Fire Dragons are the only other one with their Fusion Guns).

My milkshakes bring all the boys to the yard and they're like, hurr darry darr.


My suggestion to you is to get married, if you have a good wife you'll be happy, if you have a bad wife you'll become a philosopher. 
   
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Screaming Shining Spear




Russia, Moscow

 Elbows wrote:
Scorpions are decidedly "okay", but only because they received a points drop to 10 points a model

It all doesn't matter much if you can't make a charge, and they have no in-built charge boosts.

Bharring wrote:
However, Guardsmen (or Kabs or Marines or most troops) are a different story; if you try to lock up something near a blob

If you charge blob congo lines correcty you won't get hit with enough models to get wiped actually. You might during enemy turn, but at that point you blocked them for at least a turn.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/06 18:20:31


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I think it was just PTSD from a pair of Primaris Pskers wrecking my Banshee squad last time I tried to tie up some Guardsmen in the middle. But that's primarily because I hadn't properly respected the HeroHammer rules in the game.
   
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Russia, Moscow

And Imperium is the Hero. You don't ever forget that.
   
 
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