Total War Troy Confirmed

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**Disciple of Fate**

Totally true, the fact that GW is involved with Warhammer also makes it more rigid in platform, plus the huge amount of people owning 1 and 2 on Steam of course.

Whatever the decision making process was, eventually we might find out. The press release indicates they knew some time in advance, but it seems likely that they were contractually obligated to keep silent.

**Voss**

Disciple of Fate wrote:
Voss wrote:
Disciple of Fate wrote:
I love how the trailer on Steam still says 2020, they couldn't even be assed to make another few trailer frames for steam, kind of says it all.

I will say that there are some hints that this was a Sega decision that they couldn't say no to, so it may have caught them off guard.

They did just update the steam release date to 2021. It said 2020 an hour ago. And they took down the trailer you're referencing. Just a few screenshots now.

I can't believe that they would not get a moments notice though. Negotiations must have taken a while and they could have pushed back the announcement slightly. The Steam page actually went up with the trailer saying 2020, but the release date window next to it saying 2021.

Maybe I'm just in a mood, because now that CA and SEGA have cracked to the Epic store, I'm just a little bit more nervous about Warhammer 3.

Oh, I am too.
And it doesn't help that GW agreed to a Age of Sigmar RTS with someone else (Frontier, the Planet Zoo folks).

I'd really like them to do a big update on TW3, with at least a vague intended window, and how many DLC they plan to do. It could go all 'End Times' from either side at this point, with a perfunctory release to finish off the contract, and this sort of nonsense with their other titles doesn't fill me with confidence.

In general I think the Saga games have been a mistake. They went for a quick easy buck rather than trying to make a better game with improvements. (Which, by contrast) you can really see in 3K's diplomacy) Part of the problem with the Saga titles is the team (at least for Troy) is an external acquisition (Crytek Black Sea), down in Bulgaria away from the main studio- they don't have the experience with the TW engine, and I don't know that they can properly fund them to produce decent titles.

**Disciple of Fate**

Yeah, I really don't understand the AoS decision, what has Frontier ever done to merit making an RTS? CA dropping Warhammer 3 like a rock and moving on after release has me nervous as well. There is so much potential that might go to waste on an amazing game.

As for Saga, I agree, like I said on the last page it just seems to leave them too thin on the ground. There are real problems not being looked at for months or more because even patching is on the DLC cycle for the major games by now.

**LordofHats**

Someone else cleverly pointed out to me that Sega could be using this as a bid to get the 'Fortnite' crowd interested in Total War, which is an angle I hadn't considered. A Saga game would work better for that and that entire crowd is on the Epic Game store for better or worse.

**Overread**

I think its a bit early to start on the "CA dropping Warhammer 3" angle. That's sort of getting into "blind panic" realms; esp when to date the Warhammer games have been one of their biggest selling franchise games.

**Disciple of Fate**

I'm not sure that Total War and Fortnite players even touch each other on the Venn diagram, mostly because the impression I have gotten from friend and family that Fortnite is mainly focused on their 10 year old siblings/cousins/what have you.

As for Warhammer 3, I'm not worried (yet), but as its a great game, anything that threatens a great post-release lifespan is a bit of a downer to imagine.

**Voss**

Overread wrote:
I think its a bit early to start on the "CA dropping Warhammer 3" angle. That's sort of getting into "blind panic" realms; esp when to date the Warhammer games have been one of their biggest selling franchise games.

Not dropping. 'Mass Effecting.' Or 'Sagaing.'

I can easily see GW wanting to prioritize their current setting over the old setting, cutting DLC possibilities, and CA going with the Epic promises that they don't actually need customers to get paid for their games.

**Not Online!!!**

LordofHats wrote:
Voss wrote:
Nope.
Poor decision here. Had little interest in the game already, but this kills it.

If the pull this crap with TW3, though, its table flipping time.

I think it's reactionary to worry about TW3 at this junction.

I'd almost bet that Epic probably paid Sega's entire margin to get this deal, and like you I think most people had little interest in the game already. I'm honestly not sure what the Total War Saga titles are supposed to be. They're like mni-Total Wars, but I don't really want a mini-Total War I want a full Total War. Sega probably had low expectations of this game, given Britannia's shoddy performance and reputation. Epic offering them this deal was probably easy math for them. It's gak for anyone who hates Epic Games and wanted the game maybe, but I don't think it's indicative of much.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Overread wrote:
PC store exclusivity is basically nothing; you install the launcher and that's it you've got the other company. No fees, no costs and most of the launchers even let you "add games" from other companies to the quick-start menu.

I don't want that kind of clutter on my desktop.

If someone wants to compete with Steam, they should compete. GOG and Greenman do it dandily. No one complains about them because they have the respect for the user to offer a quality service. Steam's dominance is a much about momentum as quality. Epic isn't competing, they're just making the market toxic in a bid to get their own share of it, so feth um.

not to mention that epic is just outright amateurishly designed with no user confort whatsoever,.
Also rip the dude and memebers that had to message the community about it , probably overhead desicion over their heads.

Also i really doubt the Fortnight crowd would be interested or even has the attention span required for a total war.

**Trondheim**

Voss wrote:
Overread wrote:
I think its a bit early to start on the "CA dropping Warhammer 3" angle. That's sort of getting into "blind panic" realms; esp when to date the Warhammer games have been one of their biggest selling franchise games.

Not dropping. 'Mass Effecting.' Or 'Sagaing.'

I can easily see GW wanting to prioritize their current setting over the old setting, cutting DLC possibilities, and CA going with the Epic promises that they don't actually need customers to get paid for their games.

Yea I am more inclined to believe we will see a shoddy excuse and then voila, no more TW3. But I would not lament it, CA lost me as a customer after this announcement

**Eumerin**

It's highly unlikely that CA will do anything untoward with TWWH3. When the first Warhammer game was released, it became far and away the best selling TW game of all time. It would be incredibly foolish to risk that.

For a studio like CA that specializes in niche games, disrupting the customer chain is reckless and dangerous.

**Trondheim**

Eumerin wrote:
It's highly unlikely that CA will do anything untoward with TWWH3. When the first Warhammer game was released, it became far and away the best selling TW game of all time. It would be incredibly foolish to risk that.

For a studio like CA that specializes in niche games, disrupting the customer chain is reckless and dangerous.

I may suffer from a distinct lack of trust towards major companies, due to my line of work but I would not be shocked if CA did what I described, but I do hope you are correct.

**Overread**

Thing is the Saga games already proved unpopular or at least not as popular, with their established market. If anything they are ideal games to "hive off" to another site and potentially another user base to draw in more customers.

It's also interesting how many say they weren't interested in Troy to start with, but are really angry about this news. I guess they are projecting the fear that all future CA games become 1 year exclusives.

And yeah the only game to top Warhammer is Three Kingdoms and that's partly because its of strong asian market ties (which as I recall had another round of people predicting utterly mad potential influences affecting CA due to Chinese pressures whch don't seem to have appeared at all and are largely even forgotten that people were complaining about it)

**Disciple of Fate**

Trondheim wrote:
Eumerin wrote:
It's highly unlikely that CA will do anything untoward with TWWH3. When the first Warhammer game was released, it became far and away the best selling TW game of all time. It would be incredibly foolish to risk that.

For a studio like CA that specializes in niche games, disrupting the customer chain is reckless and dangerous.

I may suffer from a distinct lack of trust towards major companies, due to my line of work but I would not be shocked if CA did what I described, but I do hope you are correct.

They are likely contractually obligated to make a third game depending on their licensing agreement, however (worst case scenario) that would not prevent them from purposefully gaking the bed if wanting to do so during development.

**Argive**

The saga games are the forge world of the TW gaming franchise. As in its basically a side game. I think they had a bunch of left over ideas and assets from 3k and decided to utalise it in a saga games.

I personaly dont even consider saga games to be legit TW titles but like spin off younger brothers.

Im not surprised they took the deal. I don't think it would sell that well (because of the above reasons) anyway so might as well go for that cheddar if they givin it...

I certainly don't think they will make WHTW3 an epic exclusive. The DLC they put out is decent for the price.

FYI WHTW2 is currently £13 on steam - Or at least was at the weekend. thats an absoulte bargain

**Disciple of Fate**

I think the Skull Throne sale is over, if only I could resist the great Warhammer DLC to make it to a sale

**Eumerin**

Skull Throne sale may be over. But the Summer Sale should be arriving soon.

**Disciple of Fate**

Given previous dates, about three weeks left to the summer sale..

**Voss**

Disciple of Fate wrote:
I think the Skull Throne sale is over, if only I could resist the great Warhammer DLC to make it to a sale

It is, sadly. Ended yesterday morning (my time, anyway). I got distracted over the weekend with real life stuff, and finally sat down at my computer yesterday thinking of picking something up, and whoops, all the sales were gone.
Long run I won't regret it (as they're games that I've passed over many times before), but I was annoyed at the time.

Disciple of Fate wrote:
Given previous dates, about three weeks left to the summer sale..

June 25 and ends on July 9. Not officially official, but folks have gotten real good at datamining steam sale dates.

**H.B.M.C.**

Overread wrote:
PC store exclusivity is basically nothing; you install the launcher and that's it you've got the other company. No fees, no costs and most of the launchers even let you "add games" from other companies to the quick-start menu.

Some of us don't want any 10Cent products on our system. Ever.

And exclusivity is stupid in all instances where 3rd party products are concerned. I can't get the final chapter of Telltale's Walking Dead and link it to my Steam games and the results from those 'cause the final chapter is only on Epic.

Screw EGS. I'm not getting anything from them.

**Dreadwinter**

I don't use Epic because their support is awful. I had it once, my account got hacked and somebody charged $200 for Fortnite on my account. I contacted them and told them and I sent a stop order to the bank about it. The bank got the money back. 6 Months later Epic gets ahold of my and bans my account for fraud. Even though I sent multiple reports in about the hacking.

Never again will I use Epic.

**Voss**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Overread wrote:
PC store exclusivity is basically nothing; you install the launcher and that's it you've got the other company. No fees, no costs and most of the launchers even let you "add games" from other companies to the quick-start menu.
Some of us don't want any 10Cent products on our system. Ever.

And exclusivity is stupid in all instances where 3rd party products are concerned.

The exclusivity here is particularly annoying since they're somehow simultaneously trying to wrap it in the banner of multiple storefronts.
Its really the opposite. If you want multiple storefronts you put it up for sale on steam, origin, GOG, MS store and whoever- there's lots of competing sites already. You don't take money to limit it to a single store- that's frankly just hypocritical and makes it clear that your company is willing to be swayed by anyone just offering you cash. It might be a good business on an uncertain product for your company, but it means drek-all to the supposed consumer friendly multi-platform banner-waving.

And then trying to handwave the customer opinion issue away by offering the game for free. But if they don't value their product as worth money, why should I?
I'd rather support a quality product from a developer with money, not get a handout because they want to be granted absolution for shady business.

**Not Online!!!**

Tbf as a tw Veteran that Played launchday etw and how it was abandoned aswell as rtw2 with the Cut pieces DLC and Mess it was not to mention Britannia etc.

I mean i am still surprised but not as surprised as i could be.

**Eumerin**

It's possible that the "free for the first 24 hours" thing is Epic's idea. If Epic really did guarantee CA minimum sales returns as has been suggested, then I strongly doubt that Epic would allow CA to just give it away. That would require CA to sell even more copies before Epic avoided the penalty clause. It seems more likely, imo, that Epic suggested making it free to draw business to their storefront.

**Voss**

Shrug.

Makes no practical difference who came up with the idea, its still a gimmick aimed at softening disapproval.

**Eumerin**

Voss wrote:
Shrug.

Makes no practical difference who came up with the idea, its still a gimmick aimed at softening disapproval.

Not so much softening disapproval. If Epic suggested it, I could see it as an attempt to draw in a market that they feel they get an unusually low percentage of. They got their big boost from their own games - such as Fortnight and Dauntless - which are primarily action-oriented. The "free for the first 24 hours" could be an attempt to get strategy gamers to actually look at their storefront instead of ignoring it in favor of the usual alternatives. These would be people who ordinarily wouldn't spend a second glancing at Epic's storefront. The hope might be that offering a free game from a well-known strategy company will induce some of these types of players to actually take a look around.

**Disciple of Fate**

The problem with giving it away for free on Epic after an exclusivity deal is the optics to me. Britannia died a slow death, but with a guaranteed bag of money and giving it away for free to start with, you create the idea that Troy will be dead on arrival. CA got their investment out with this deal, will there be incentive to actually make it work?

**LordofHats**

Disciple of Fate wrote:
The problem with giving it away for free on Epic after an exclusivity deal is the optics to me. Britannia died a slow death, but with a guaranteed bag of money and giving it away for free to start with, you create the idea that Troy will be dead on arrival. CA got their investment out with this deal, will there be incentive to actually make it work?

There is evidence to support that 'giving things away for free' has negative long term sales impacts. Namely, giving a game away for free on day one can be construed as admitting you don't expect it to sell. That was one of the complaints some developers had last year when Epic launched a slew of sales (some as low as making a game free) without telling anyone and developers and publishers complained about their product being devalued before it had even released.

**Not Online!!!**

Paradox complained to my knowledge but not because of free but rather because of sale , and consequently just left for some time the plattform, i believe the case was because of vampyre or some such which they just released fearing it would longterm negativly impact perception of the game.

Which is , kinda , understandable.

**Disciple of Fate**

Yeah, going on sale really early just creates the incentive for people to wait for the next sale, giving the idea that the full price is overpriced. There is a reason that most games, like those of CA take 1-2 years to start getting included in sales. Real fans or people who can't wait pay full price, others have to be patient and wait quite a while. It also creates the impression that the game might be terrible, why else dump the regular price so quickly? Are they trying to make a quick buck before abandoning it etc. etc.

But Epic in the case of Paradox gave a huge discount on a game that wasn't even released yet, far bigger than a pre purchase discount of 10%. After such a massive discount before release, why even bother buying it full price when Epic might decide next week that its worth (lets say) 75% less? People stop buying and start waiting, because the time to sale period is massively compressed and full price is no longer 'worth' it.

**Not Online!!!**

the only thing positive that might comes from epic is a lower share for publishers and marketplaces, which benefits indiegames etc. however the bigger AAA studios also profit and they won't share that margin with their workers....

Cough "stress casualities bioware Cough..