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 Grimtuff wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Yep, another "this is gonna break" model...sadly.

That Reddit is currently creaming their collective pants over.

Can't have a critical thought on a new release over there...

The model looks great! They really kept to the aesthetic, just like with the Chaos Release. But in terms of using that model to play a game? Nope.

It's just weird to me that the same studio that produces that model, and the new chaos stuff, also produces gak like MCR Shrike and Tor "whocares" Squaerjaw. They don't look remotely like they belong in the same game.


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Waaaghpower wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
If you don't like multi-part miniatures then this is the wrong hobby for you. Heroclix is a good alternative.

That's an unneccesarily rude response that doesn't even have much to do with what I actually said.

Oh, I see this is your first dealings with BCB. Welcome.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I don't have a problem with the tiny pieces and the likes. I'm fairly happy with most characters as models, but...

$35 is more than a squad of rifles, which gives me 10 models, and I can't really justify buying more than 1 of any given character model.

I'd like to see some generic posable characters with swappable loadouts.

This.
But it is the collectible glitz that warrants the price,
well, that and the painted presentation on the front of the box.

Like a picture of a cake on the front of a mix in the market;
my cake never came out like that!

I feel like the price has to do with the extra man hours and tooling the kits require over the older ones. There is a lot that goes into making a model and from little of bookkeeping I still remember, the cost to make a good is divided up by the number you intend to sell of said good and then you adjust above that as a selling point.

Basically with the models being more expensive to make, plus GW likely expecting to sell less of them (especially of named characters, some of which are locked into specific subfactions) the price point ends up being higher than a lot where they can predict that they'll sell far more copies of.

And yes, man hours to produce a good are just as much part of the cost as the materials to make saod good. Basically there is a lot of math involved that is capped by a profit margin that is set at a given percentage over the costs that drives any company's pricing model.

There's nothing in particular more breakable about new Jain Zar than say ribbons and flags on Autarch Skyrunner, or Artel W Macha who has spear as thin as needle, or Yncarne or any model on a flying stand. Using a pair of Crimson Hunters is harder than playing just a relatively small and light plastic infantry model whatever ribbons it might have. Plastic is more durable and flexible than say resin; look at Swooping Hawks - think that's a lot of material to keep them not just clipping from their bases? And Jain Zar has a lot more than that glued to a giant rock.

pm713 wrote:
In fairness to them it's a plastic model that's finally replacing an ugly one that is literally older than I am.

Also this.

There's nothing in particular more breakable about new Jain Zar than say ribbons and flags on Autarch Skyrunner, or Artel W Macha who has spear as thin as needle, or Yncarne or any model on a flying stand.

the fly stands break all the time, plus there is a difference between something breaking off that either doesn't matter or is just a weapon. Sure it may look ugly, but the model is still playable, but if the hair snaps, then model is too big to just be glued up on the spot. And most opponents aren't going to be happy about paying extra money for game time, so your model gets glued up.

Just cut black part in half and pin it. Would be fairly easy to do. No snapping ever.

 Shadenuat wrote:
There's nothing in particular more breakable about new Jain Zar than say ribbons and flags on Autarch Skyrunner, or Artel W Macha who has spear as thin as needle, or Yncarne or any model on a flying stand. Using a pair of Crimson Hunters is harder than playing just a relatively small and light plastic infantry model whatever ribbons it might have. Plastic is more durable and flexible than say resin; look at Swooping Hawks - think that's a lot of material to keep them not just clipping from their bases? And Jain Zar has a lot more than that glued to a giant rock.

It's not an entirely new problem, it just seems more common to me now than it used to. (This may be a matter of perception, but there's comparably few character kits that I've bought recently that weren't 12+ parts, versus 5th-6th edition when most of the characters I got were 4-5 parts at most.) There are certainly old kits that are a pain in the ass to assemble and break too easily - My three Penitent Engines are the epitome of bad practical design - but I would hope to see less of this kind of design nowadays, not more. 40k is a game as well as a hobby, and I personally like it best when it feels like these two aspects are balanced against each other instead of favoring one more heavily.

What I remember about old times is wingless daemon princes, bent swords and chipped models. Even with fancier models, new plastic is so much easier to play. (the daemon duo is ridiculous though)

Never understood the complaints. These plastic models are so light, even the demon duo only requires a medium magnet on the base and a small box with a bit of metal glued at the bottom. Super easy to transport!

Or just magnetize the daemonette on top.

I'm all about this "new style" of minis. I make my own little boxes with foam/bubble-wrap to support oddly shaped items. I also magnetize parts to reduce the likelihood of things breaking off.

My only gripe in general is lack of options, but I don't mind counts-as either.

Vastly prefer the minis and kits of today over the old stuff of even a couple years ago, which generally just looks like crap in comparison.

In general I prefer customization and more flexibility with how you pose your model over the more mono pose style that has been more common as of late. I also prefer models poses that are less dynamic or pretentious as I want my models to look like they belong on most battlefields instead of seeing the same 2 or 3 poses repeated or seeing somebody bounding over an ancient ruin despite playing in a city....or desert.... or on planet bowling ball.

For poses look at something like the Wulfen with that idiotic cheerleader/crane kick pose for the Wulfen leader. So if you had 15 Wulfen then you got 3 Furry Daniel LaRusso's running around. Where as I can field 100 Fire Warriors in a game and while they are built with the same pieces with limited combinations, they can have subtle differences and are all doing stuff that looks appropriate for a soldier in combat to be doing and not quite like an army of clones.

Character wise whilst I appreciate the detail and dynamic poses I really don’t like my models, let alone characters (even if 'generic', 'un-named' versions) being mono-pose with little, if any equipment choices. For me this is a bigger issue than models being potently fragile. If the models are rather unbalanced thus prone to falling over that’d be different.

Whilst I appreciate that GW don’t want to have units (including characters) that can only be built by kit bashing, characters are often centre pieces of our armies and to me they really, really loose the impact when they have same pose, and the same weapons…

I’ve probably been playing the game a bit too long as I think it’d be wonderful if they went back to/ updated the multipart fully customisable (not to mention inter-compatible with the wider range) character kits (e.g. Chaos Marines Lord/ Sorcerer in Terminator Armour, Space Marine Commander etc…)

Karol wrote:

There's nothing in particular more breakable about new Jain Zar than say ribbons and flags on Autarch Skyrunner, or Artel W Macha who has spear as thin as needle, or Yncarne or any model on a flying stand.

the fly stands break all the time, plus there is a difference between something breaking off that either doesn't matter or is just a weapon. Sure it may look ugly, but the model is still playable, but if the hair snaps, then model is too big to just be glued up on the spot. And most opponents aren't going to be happy about paying extra money for game time, so your model gets glued up.

Remember that almost nobody anywhere pays money for game time. But still, point taken.

Personally my biggest annoyance from an engineering standpoint is when they (seemingly on purpose) build break points into model parts that are really, REEEEEEEEAALLY hard to reglue.

http://www.bitzbox.co.uk/images/harlequin_skyweavers_zephyrglaive_1_large.JPG

That little handle bit, where it is molded deep, deep into the plastic, is where every single one of these breaks, every single time. and they're a nightmare to reglue. It's like if Apple started manufacturing their cell phones with perforations in the screens.