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Specifically, the way that the kits are ten, fifteen, even twenty pieces for a single human-sized mini.
Simply put, I'm not the most organized, I'm clumsy, I have a cat. Even if I didn't, it's the nature of the game that minis which get used a lot will at some point get jostled, dropped, mishandled, damaged in transport - it's possible to reduce how often this happens, but it can't be avoided entirely.
So, when every modern kit is built almost entirely out of dozens of small pieces that only have one or two attachment points and not a lot of surface area, it becomes almost inevitable for me that my most popular minis are either missing pieces or at the very least have been fixed and re-fixed half a dozen times or more.

Don't get me wrong - I love some of the way the new kits look. New Celestine is gorgeous. Feirros looks badass. Greyfax looks incredibly cool. *But*, they all seemed to be designed solely as display pieces without much thought put into their function as a game piece. (The bits are often so thin or small that pinning isn't even a serious option, either.) I would happily trade a little bit of their complicated, over-the-top posing and complicated extras in exchange for a more robust, durable mini that I can confidently transport to a game every week without worrying about damage.

(This is also a problem with a lot of finecast minis - especially ones that were designed in metal then recast with resin - because of how brittle and prone to snapping the it was, but I think everyone agrees that finecast sucked.)

It's to get good undercut-type detail

honestly, most characters of late I've dealt with have been pretty sturdy all told.

In general I despise kits designed to look cool, with zero consideration of gameplay or transport (or general longevity) in mind.

GW knows what sells though, and "dynamic" (often without actually being...dynamic) miniatures with heaps of pieces are what sell. Luckily AoS is a much larger offender than most 40K kits.

EDIT: A stunning example of this is:



At no point did anyone think "Wow, this'll be fragile as hell...and a massive pain in the ass to transport.". This is one of the most egregious versions of this kind of thing. How many used versions of this kit will be on eBay missing/cracked/snapped in 5-10 years? I'm guessing a crap ton. Now, as a company making money off selling kits, this shouldn't technically concern GW (they get the money and the rest is history), but as a nod to customers transportation/durability/etc. should be something to consider.

I don’t mind the multiple small parts. I use plastic glue, so get good solid fused bonds. The tiny contact flight stands and large models held up by wisps and dreams do bother me a bit though. Yes they look cool, but they do make transport more challenging.

I’ve got enough foam, both custom KR trays and scraps for DIY packs in random boxes I can get stuff where it needs to go.

And sometims things break. We fix them. Part of the price for playing. Fairly rare though. At least for me.

I'm more opposed to the fact that they insist on doing $35 blisters for all characters instead of just named special characters. It'd be easier for them (less kits to design/manufacture/market), easier for us (fewer single-model blisters), and more customizable if more armies followed either the Thousand Sons model (one flexible box that you can build a bunch of different characters out of) or the Custodes/Stormcast model (where the characters are upgrade parts in other boxes).

 Nevelon wrote:
I don’t mind the multiple small parts. I use plastic glue, so get good solid fused bonds. The tiny contact flight stands and large models held up by wisps and dreams do bother me a bit though. Yes they look cool, but they do make transport more challenging.

I’ve got enough foam, both custom KR trays and scraps for DIY packs in random boxes I can get stuff where it needs to go.

And sometims things break. We fix them. Part of the price for playing. Fairly rare though. At least for me.

My experience with plastic glue has been that it bonds stronger, but if it breaks it becomes very difficult to reassemble because the breaks happen along the narrowest point of the mini instead of the mold joint, which usually provides some kind of divit or shape that makes the attachment easier.

I'm fine with things breaking, I just wish GW would take steps to minimize the frequency and severity of breaks. My metal Logan Grimnar has almost the same pose as modern Kharn, but I never have issues with him breaking like I do with modern sculpts.

(I'm fine with *some* models being complicated 15+ part kits if they're special display models, it becomes an issue if they're ones I play with regularly.)


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 AnomanderRake wrote:
I'm more opposed to the fact that they insist on doing $35 blisters for all characters instead of just named special characters. It'd be easier for them (less kits to design/manufacture/market), easier for us (fewer single-model blisters), and more customizable if more armies followed either the Thousand Sons model (one flexible box that you can build a bunch of different characters out of) or the Custodes/Stormcast model (where the characters are upgrade parts in other boxes).

That's also an issue! Simpler sculpts would mean cheaper sculpts, at least if GW is consistent about the whole "They're expensive because of all the detail" thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something worth adding: My blackstone fortress minis are a delight. All the pretty detail, but they actually *snap together* with hardly any glue needed! Pious is 4 pieces and looks just as good as Greyfax or Feirros. I would love to see more minis like this become 40k character standard.

I don't have a problem with the tiny pieces and the likes. I'm fairly happy with most characters as models, but...

$35 is more than a squad of rifles, which gives me 10 models, and I can't really justify buying more than 1 of any given character model.

I'd like to see some generic posable characters with swappable loadouts.

The hard to transport part is very true. Now my dudes don't have those problems, as I carry them around wraped in wool, but some of the models just snap off all the time. the marines on flying stands, And I know AoS players cursed a lot of their stuff just breaking in transport or durning playing. Maybe not as important for everyone, but if someone paints the model, being forced to glue it again and again every 2-3 weeks ain't good.

If you don't like multi-part miniatures then this is the wrong hobby for you. Heroclix is a good alternative.

I don't mind character models having lots of small parts.

I do, however, dislike them being monopose and designed in such ways as to make converting them as awkward and difficult as possible.

I don't mind the piece count as much as I mind the spindly bits that they come with, to the point where I've stopped modelling those bits to avoid breakages and ruining my paint jobs.

It's a genuine consideration for me now to assess how easily a model can be transported before buying it.

Yeah some of GW's new sculpts are clearly made on 3D designers not by hand because they are so terribly impractical in terms of handling and transporting. Now whoever did the Slaanesh Keeper at least thought "Hey that's a whip I can coil it up rather than have it whipping all over the place"

Also some old stuff was like it too - slaanesh again - the chariots have long whips and if you model then upright above the herald's head then you've a lot of overhead space needed just to hold thin spindly easy broken whips.


As for part count I've no problem with it, esp since quite a few the seams on the parts are getting VERY good at being on hidden parts of the model so they blend in well. Not always but a good majority of the time - whoever is parting them really knows that area of work very well.

Price is another issue and partly a result of being plastic. Plastic moulds are super expensive and characters are a one sale item. So whilst a character is as expensive as a box of troops you might only ever buy one character whilst you might buy 3, 4 heck even 10 boxes of troops. So GW makes far more return on investment from troops than they do characters.

Back in the days of metal the metal moulds were far cheaper than plastic so it was easier to price them lower for a single model.

I specificly avoid unpractical miniatures. Spindly sculpts or flyer stands are just too much hassle and prone to breaking. Top heavy miniatures like the storm boys I wish i'd never bought. I leave stuff like antennas or back banners of when assembling. Lastly there is one kit I just cant complete because the assemby is a nightmare, and that is the drop pod, the arch nemesis of my hobby.

No argument that impractical model design is a bad thing, but multiple parts on a model make it easier to kit bash and convert.

What annoys me is when they make models as a solid lump or split the models in strange places (looking at you savage orks!) which means you have to get the saw out!

I think it's gone a bit too far in the level of useful detail on most character models. They are too many parts for a single piece. Just my opinion.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
If you don't like multi-part miniatures then this is the wrong hobby for you. Heroclix is a good alternative.

there is multi part, and there is a model being constructued in a such a way that you need a separate box just for it. And with how spamy GW armies tend to be, your suddenly required to start your army building, by either buying multiple high price boxs or a car to carry those. Now I know there are huge differences in the world as far as income goes, but how many new players like to hear they need to spend 100$+ on rules, another that on paints and then probably the same on specilised conteiners to carry the army, they have not bought yet.

Karol wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
If you don't like multi-part miniatures then this is the wrong hobby for you. Heroclix is a good alternative.

there is multi part, and there is a model being constructued in a such a way that you need a separate box just for it. And with how spamy GW armies tend to be, your suddenly required to start your army building, by either buying multiple high price boxs or a car to carry those. Now I know there are huge differences in the world as far as income goes, but how many new players like to hear they need to spend 100$+ on rules, another that on paints and then probably the same on specilised conteiners to carry the army, they have not bought yet.

Yeah, I've used the same case for years, one of the ones that are just a big box that you fill with whatever foam pieces you want, and I recently traded an army for a full army of idoneth deepkins. I have....no way, absolutely zero chance of successfully carrying these guys in the foam that I've got. And I actually went to the extra effort of completely replacing the flying bases with much sturdier and magnetized clear poly rod and magnetizing the riders on a lot of the monsters. I can't even imagine how I'd try to transport them safely with all their ridiculous spears and banners.

Specifically, the way that the kits are ten, fifteen, even twenty pieces for a single human-sized mini.

I'd be happy with 20$

I get to pay 28.00 CHF

And yes, transport on some of these became absolutely slowed:

 Kroem wrote:
No argument that impractical model design is a bad thing, but multiple parts on a model make it easier to kit bash and convert.

What annoys me is when they make models as a solid lump or split the models in strange places (looking at you savage orks!) which means you have to get the saw out!

I noticed that when the Savage Orcs came out, unlike literally every other Ork/Orc that had come before them they were not cross compatible (we're seeing this with the SM range to an extent right now). Before you could mix and match any part, be it from 40k or WHFB as they all had the same joins. Now you're seeing joins in odd places, shoulderpads split down the middle (CSMs and DG are most egregious for this) and models, despite being multipart can only go together one way and/or have odd weapon combos as that is only what is available on the sprue (looking at you Plague Marines).

To me, this is a major step back for the same of detail for detail's sake. Why do we need a maggot on the inside of a backpack vent on a PM, when literally no-one will see it? Same goes for Abaddon's black carapace. It's a nice detail but it is completely and utterly covered up once assembled.

GW still champions kitbashing as one of the tentpoles of this hobby, but with recent kits they make it bloody more difficult than it needs to be. Then they also remove rules for non stock models. It's like they talk out of both sides of their mouths. Pick a lane GW.

I don't mind the multiple parts, but I don't like things that can be easily broken. I try and pin or magnetise parts that may break off so that they can be removed before transporting them. Although it'd take me a month of Sundays to magnetise all the spikes on my chaos units, and they're forever breaking off.

The more impractical the more awesome a mini needs to be, i find a lot of GW minis will be less awesome by being Impractical >.<
I hate minis standing on rocks over half there height, and flight stands on a model that can stand.
I think i am sorta annoyed by there, center peace needs to be huge and in your face. And a lot of what that has come to.

In 40k, that was sorta the tanks job :(

This is one of the reasons I'm moving into other games and away from GW. Where I once loved their games and models, things are changing so fast that it's almost impossible for me to keep up.

It's exhausting to go through the mess of "What bit is good for what model" and considering the rules. And I do understand the companies want to protect its IP, but the new marines are a prime example of why this fails. Each kit has three boring copies of the same gun, and almost nothing in terms of extra bits, weapons, or pose options. To make it worse, some of the primaris stuff looks great, like the new Salamander or the new Tigirius. But then some of it looks like it was designed by a disney animator! The New IF character is hideous, and carries a grav gun, the most useless upgrade in the game. Shrike reminds me of that mess of a model that FW released a few years ago, Valdor in terms of being loaded to the brim with useless clutter. Calgar's pose is bland and boring, as is the stock captain and most LT's.

Games like Team Yankee, Dungeons and Dragons, and so on are far more simple, easier to play, and much easier to transport models. I'm also finding less of the ultra-competitive spirit in these other games, and more of a focus on gaming, rather than ROFLstomping your opponent on turn 2.

My TY army and collection of D&D models fit entirely in a 35$ Walmart fishing box, no need for me to spend 500$+ to get battlefoam to transport my most delicate models. This might not seem like it, but it's a huge deal for me.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Apple fox wrote:
The more impractical the more awesome a mini needs to be, i find a lot of GW minis will be less awesome by being Impractical >.<
I hate minis standing on rocks over half there height, and flight stands on a model that can stand.
I think i am sorta annoyed by there, center peace needs to be huge and in your face. And a lot of what that has come to.

In 40k, that was sorta the tanks job :(

People keep harping on me, but I really do think GW is ultimately trying to move away from vehicle kits. I think they only cave and make new ones when the community screams loudly (like the new grav rhino).

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/23/phoenix-lord-risinggw-homepage-post-1/

Prime example. The hair stance and the rediclous streamers on the spear. That model is so fragile, I wouldn't ever buy it because it's just going to get broken/cause pile in issues during game play.

Yep, another "this is gonna break" model...sadly.

 Elbows wrote:
Yep, another "this is gonna break" model...sadly.

That Reddit is currently creaming their collective pants over.

Can't have a critical thought on a new release over there...

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Yep, another "this is gonna break" model...sadly.

That Reddit is currently creaming their collective pants over.

Can't have a critical thought on a new release over there...

In fairness to them it's a plastic model that's finally replacing an ugly one that is literally older than I am.

pm713 wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Yep, another "this is gonna break" model...sadly.

That Reddit is currently creaming their collective pants over.

Can't have a critical thought on a new release over there...

In fairness to them it's a plastic model that's finally replacing an ugly one that is literally older than I am.

Okay then, bring up in the thread over on r/warhammer40k that it will probably break really easily and see what happens.

A nice model it may be, but breakage is a huge concern here. If she is anything like Celestine who literally shakes when you move her then she is not fit for gaming at all.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
If you don't like multi-part miniatures then this is the wrong hobby for you. Heroclix is a good alternative.

That's an unneccesarily rude response that doesn't even have much to do with what I actually said.

 Grimtuff wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Yep, another "this is gonna break" model...sadly.

That Reddit is currently creaming their collective pants over.

Can't have a critical thought on a new release over there...

In fairness to them it's a plastic model that's finally replacing an ugly one that is literally older than I am.

Okay then, bring up in the thread over on r/warhammer40k that it will probably break really easily and see what happens.

A nice model it may be, but breakage is a huge concern here. If she is anything like Celestine who literally shakes when you move her then she is not fit for gaming at all.

I would but I only have one silly argument at a time.

I agree about the breakage though. Of the things a miniature can be used for absolutely none are improved by easy breaking. It's a really dumb thing to do.

 ph34r wrote:
It's to get good undercut-type detail

This all the way. To get around how unforgiving plastic modls are for undercuts they have to layer things differently to work around the issue. Yes, it means more complex kits, but it also means kits that just downright look better when fully assembled.