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 DeathReaper wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
It’s clear from the rules that attacks aren’t simultaneous. There’s no point in arguing against this. It’s what the rules state.

Technically all shooting from a single unit is simultaneous though. We know this because you activate the whole unit then declare whatever attacks that unit is making.

Once you go past that point, you can not go back and declare any other shots from a single unit.

Nope. You declare shots simultaneously and resolve one by one. That doesn’t make all shots simultaneous. Intent must be declared at once, resolution is one by one.

Here is the beauty of single dice rolling.

First, you must pick the target unit, or units, for the
attacks. To target an enemy unit, the attacking model
must either be within 1" of that unit, or within 1" of
another model from its own unit that is itself within 1"
of that enemy unit. This represents the unit fighting in
two ranks. Models that charged this turn can only target
enemy units that they charged in the previous phase.

Question: You have 20 boys, 4 attack, suite of knifes kills 16 boys. 4 boys are left do you continue to attack 16x4 times or you stop because your models are death ?

Attacks are like shooting and are supposed to go on model base. Your models are death, why are you insisting to continue attacking and why are you stopping when the opponent is death ?

Marin wrote:
Here is the beauty of single dice rolling.

First, you must pick the target unit, or units, for the
attacks. To target an enemy unit, the attacking model
must either be within 1" of that unit, or within 1" of
another model from its own unit that is itself within 1"
of that enemy unit. This represents the unit fighting in
two ranks. Models that charged this turn can only target
enemy units that they charged in the previous phase.

Question: You have 20 boys, 4 attack, suite of knifes kills 16 boys. 4 boys are left do you continue to attack 16x4 times or you stop because your models are death ?

Attacks are like shooting and are supposed to go on model base. Your models are death, why are you insisting to continue attacking and why are you stopping when the opponent is death ?

Suit of hidden Knives specifically says to resolve the mortal wounds after all attacks are made by the attacking unit. So the boys get to finish there attacks first.

However, other abilities, like somber sentinels are immediate. So, in the case of other abilities that exclude that "resolve after all attacks are made" clause, like somber sentinels, any models which have not made their attacks yet would no longer be eligible to attack, this can be partially circumvented by fast rolling. When fast rolling any attacks that have already been rolled for will finish being resolved (as that's what fast rolling rules say to do). but any other attacks that did not qualify to be batched rolled, in that first volley of attacks, by the fast rolling rules will be disregarded if the model making those attacks is removed before they have the chance to actually roll for them.

Declaring attacks does not guarantee the attacks are allowed to be rolled for, it simply locks in what those models MUST target. They MUST target that unit even if range or LOS changes. However, if they are no longer there to actually make the attacks, it doesn't mater that they MUST target something, they are no longer there and therefor have no attacks to make, end of story.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
It’s clear from the rules that attacks aren’t simultaneous. There’s no point in arguing against this. It’s what the rules state.

Technically all shooting from a single unit is simultaneous though. We know this because you activate the whole unit then declare whatever attacks that unit is making.

Once you go past that point, you can not go back and declare any other shots from a single unit.

Nope. You declare shots simultaneously and resolve one by one. That doesn’t make all shots simultaneous. Intent must be declared at once, resolution is one by one.

That is what I said.

Technically all shooting from a single unit is simultaneous means exactly what I posted. That being "you activate the whole unit then declare whatever attacks that unit is making."

I never said resolution is simul...

 DeathReaper wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
It’s clear from the rules that attacks aren’t simultaneous. There’s no point in arguing against this. It’s what the rules state.

Technically all shooting from a single unit is simultaneous though. We know this because you activate the whole unit then declare whatever attacks that unit is making.

Once you go past that point, you can not go back and declare any other shots from a single unit.

Nope. You declare shots simultaneously and resolve one by one. That doesn’t make all shots simultaneous. Intent must be declared at once, resolution is one by one.

That is what I said.

Technically all shooting from a single unit is simultaneous means exactly what I posted. That being "you activate the whole unit then declare whatever attacks that unit is making."

I never said resolution is simul...

Cool, well, as we're talking about how to resolve shots then we're on the same page, in that shots are not considered simultaneous.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Spoiler:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
It’s clear from the rules that attacks aren’t simultaneous. There’s no point in arguing against this. It’s what the rules state.

Technically all shooting from a single unit is simultaneous though. We know this because you activate the whole unit then declare whatever attacks that unit is making.

Once you go past that point, you can not go back and declare any other shots from a single unit.

Nope. You declare shots simultaneously and resolve one by one. That doesn’t make all shots simultaneous. Intent must be declared at once, resolution is one by one.

That is what I said.

Technically all shooting from a single unit is simultaneous means exactly what I posted. That being "you activate the whole unit then declare whatever attacks that unit is making."

I never said resolution is simul...

Cool, well, as we're talking about how to resolve shots then we're on the same page, in that shots are not considered simultaneous.

But the shots are considered simultaneous. Meaning the choosing a unit to shoot and declaring shots part is simultaneous, while the resolution of those shots are not simultaneous.

So technically it is both simultaneous and not simultaneous.

They are not considered simultaneous - you’d need rules stating they are, and no such rule exists. Declaring intent for a bunch of actions before processing them one at a time (or using fast rolling to speed up the process) in no way makes them considered as simultaneous. Two separate stages. Don’t try and confuse things or try for “well technically” points... let’s keep things clear in a rules thread.

Simultaneous would compel the sort of shenanigans posited upthread. Nothing in the rules compels the kind of “you must roll the overkill attacks even though my guy is dead” in the OP. Nothing makes you roll for the plasma guns you haven’t yet fired if your target is dead. FAQs state that things like cover save eligibility can change as you resolve shots. The Core Rules state “The rules for resolving attacks have been written assuming you will make them one at a time.”

It’s pretty clear. I get that it may be counterintuitive or odd if you’re used to other editions or games, but it’s not unclear. Decide targets for all attacks before resolving any. Resolve attacks one by one, or use optional rule to speed this up. No statement that attacks are considered simultaneous. No compulsion to roll overkill. Just not there, dude...

 JohnnyHell wrote:
They are not considered simultaneous - you’d need rules stating they are, and no such rule exists. Declaring intent for a bunch of actions before processing them one at a time (or using fast rolling to speed up the process) in no way makes them considered as simultaneous. Two separate stages. Don’t try and confuse things or try for “well technically” points... let’s keep things clear in a rules thread.

Simultaneous would compel the sort of shenanigans posited upthread. Nothing in the rules compels the kind of “you must roll the overkill attacks even though my guy is dead” in the OP. Nothing makes you roll for the plasma guns you haven’t yet fired if your target is dead. FAQs state that things like cover save eligibility can change as you resolve shots. The Core Rules state “The rules for resolving attacks have been written assuming you will make them one at a time.”

It’s pretty clear. I get that it may be counterintuitive or odd if you’re used to other editions or games, but it’s not unclear. Decide targets for all attacks before resolving any. Resolve attacks one by one, or use optional rule to speed this up. No statement that attacks are considered simultaneous. No compulsion to roll overkill. Just not there, dude...

The rules literally state that you declare all shots before rolling to hit which makes part of shooting simultaneous...

@DeathReaper,
I don't think anyone disagrees with that part, a part of the shooting phase is in fact simultaneous.

I think its just about keeping things on topic in relation to the OP. Which is about resolving attacks not the entire shooting phase. As not to make things confusing for future readers of the thread.

AKA resolving both melee attacks and shooting attacks is handled one at a time. Even though other parts of both the fight phase and shooting phase may be simultaneous.

Question: you attack harlequin troupe that attack when model die. You kill 3 troupes and the retaliation kill your squad, you have to do 4 more attacks, but you don`t have any models more.

 Type40 wrote:
@DeathReaper,
I don't think anyone disagrees with that part, a part of the shooting phase is in fact simultaneous.

I think its just about keeping things on topic in relation to the OP. Which is about resolving attacks not the entire shooting phase. As not to make things confusing for future readers of the thread.

AKA resolving both melee attacks and shooting attacks is handled one at a time. Even though other parts of both the fight phase and shooting phase may be simultaneous.

Indeed. Pedantry about one part of the phase that isn’t in question in the OP being simultaneous doesn’t help anyone, and I even acknowledged that this one part is done at once. Doesn’t change the rest of my answer. Please read it through DeathReaper instead of just points scoring.

Marin wrote:
Question: you attack harlequin troupe that attack when model die. You kill 3 troupes and the retaliation kill your squad, you have to do 4 more attacks, but you don`t have any models more.

If you didn't batch roll those attacks and already wound with them, then the remaining attacks are lost.

 Type40 wrote:

Marin wrote:
Question: you attack harlequin troupe that attack when model die. You kill 3 troupes and the retaliation kill your squad, you have to do 4 more attacks, but you don`t have any models more.

If you didn't batch roll those attacks and already wound with them, then the remaining attacks are lost.

and why is batch rolling changing things, when you are supposed to attack one by one ?
That is the problem i have with this rule, that it`s inconsistent depending on your way of rolling.

Marin wrote:

 Type40 wrote:

Marin wrote:
Question: you attack harlequin troupe that attack when model die. You kill 3 troupes and the retaliation kill your squad, you have to do 4 more attacks, but you don`t have any models more.

If you didn't batch roll those attacks and already wound with them, then the remaining attacks are lost.

and why is batch rolling changing things, when you are supposed to attack one by one ?
That is the problem i have with this rule, that it`s inconsistent depending on your way of rolling.

Just roll one by one or batch in smaller batches then. It’s a largely practical but optional rule after all.

Marin wrote:

and why is batch rolling changing things, when you are supposed to attack one by one ?
That is the problem i have with this rule, that it`s inconsistent depending on your way of rolling.

Because how suit of hidden knives is worded. The mortal wounds are generated when a hit roll of 1 is made. Complain to GW for stupid wording.

Marin wrote:

 Type40 wrote:

Marin wrote:
Question: you attack harlequin troupe that attack when model die. You kill 3 troupes and the retaliation kill your squad, you have to do 4 more attacks, but you don`t have any models more.

If you didn't batch roll those attacks and already wound with them, then the remaining attacks are lost.

and why is batch rolling changing things, when you are supposed to attack one by one ?
That is the problem i have with this rule, that it`s inconsistent depending on your way of rolling.

Oh ya, I totally agree.
Unfortunately that is how the RAW works... would love to see some ruling to make it consistent one way or the other... but alas there is not... so sometimes it is more advantages to slow roll (one at a time) and sometimes it is more advantages to fast roll (batches).