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Karol wrote:
Doctrin that starts to work from turn 3 onwards, seems really bad. Specialy when there are armies that use theirs from turn 1.

I don't know much about other stuff. LR stuff seems strange. Maybe GW is planing to make new land raider crusaders with new set of rules.

So, I might be wrong here, but why exactly wouldn't Black Templars get the Imperial Fist doctrine in turn 1 as they are still a successor chapter. Unless there is a specific exclusion, the Templars would get successor level access to everything from the Fists supplement as well as the new bits.

not sure I'd call it BAD, but it's certainly perhaps "overly situational"

Insularum wrote:

Karol wrote:
Doctrin that starts to work from turn 3 onwards, seems really bad. Specialy when there are armies that use theirs from turn 1.

I don't know much about other stuff. LR stuff seems strange. Maybe GW is planing to make new land raider crusaders with new set of rules.

So, I might be wrong here, but why exactly wouldn't Black Templars get the Imperial Fist doctrine in turn 1 as they are still a successor chapter. Unless there is a specific exclusion, the Templars would get successor level access to everything from the Fists supplement as well as the new bits.

Definitely not how that works, there'll definitely be wording with this release that has them with the Knights of Sigismund super doctrine in replacement of that with Imperial Fists.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Saber wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You know someone at GW actually thought that Land Raider Strat was good. Let that sink in for a moment.

In what way is that stratagem bad? It's 1 CP for immunity to overwatch and -1 to hit. Even with the obvious limitations it's not in any way bad.

The limitations are exactly WHY it is bad. If you ignore the limitations on anything, anything would be good.

Nonsense. There's a whole host of stratagems that are useless, or provide a much lesser benefit than other stratagems in the same situation. Those are bad stratagems.

The Black Templar stratagem is quite good in the particular situation it covers. The only limitation is "use this unit how it is intended to be used." It might be tied to a sub-par unit, but that doesn't make the stratagem bad. Situational, yes, but not bad.

 Saber wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Saber wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You know someone at GW actually thought that Land Raider Strat was good. Let that sink in for a moment.

In what way is that stratagem bad? It's 1 CP for immunity to overwatch and -1 to hit. Even with the obvious limitations it's not in any way bad.

The limitations are exactly WHY it is bad. If you ignore the limitations on anything, anything would be good.

Nonsense. There's a whole host of stratagems that are useless, or provide a much lesser benefit than other stratagems in the same situation. Those are bad stratagems.

The Black Templar stratagem is quite good in the particular situation it covers. The only limitation is "use this unit how it is intended to be used." It might be tied to a sub-par unit, but that doesn't make the stratagem bad. Situational, yes, but not bad.

That's what Slayer is talking about that, the chances of that situation happening is extremely unlikely, and in the case it does by some miracle? You're more less just using a "win more" button, because at that point your opponent is either playing or rolling incredibly poorly so you're likely going to win regardless of the stratagem. It would be a lot more useful if it applied to any BT unit that charged that turn or if the BT charged after arriving from deep strike or disembarking from any transport rather than specifically LRC.

A good strategem for the LR crusader would be advance and fire, or fire and pop smoke, or improved overwatch, or assult vehicle rule applies (the rule that primaris transport got). The current strategem will never see use. Its too situational. Even if you get the perfect set up the opponent will probably just kill the LR before the disembark in the next turn.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Odd thought: Is BT not going primaris because of Cawl being tainted by heretical stuff, or did BT go primaris and I missed it?

BT *have* Primaris, but it doesn't mean they're all Primaris. As far as we know, nearly all canon Chapters accepted Primaris Marines, to some degree or another.

To be fair, the Black Templars have A LOT of Marines, and even the best resources requires time to get things done. Not to mention, they're not even completing becoming Primaris until they are finished with their novitiate as a Neophyte.