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2019/11/27 11:29:57
Subject: 8.5 Codexes
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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2019/11/27 11:37:39
Subject: 8.5 Codexes
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
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Yeah, I have always despised this power dance mid edition shuffle gw likes to do. I don't actually think that's what this is (over played vs new sisters already, numarines they aint) even if it was it'd be a return to the gak days of earlier editions.
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"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!" |
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2019/11/27 11:38:57
Subject: Re:8.5 Codexes
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Angered Reaver Arena Champion
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I doubt CSM can be considered 8.5. It's at best a Revised Codex like they did for Dark Angels in 3rd Edition. Does the revised CSM codex even reward mono-faction play like SM and SoB are apparently doing?
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2019/11/27 11:44:59
Subject: Re:8.5 Codexes
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
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 Eldarsif wrote:I doubt CSM can be considered 8.5. It's at best a Revised Codex like they did for Dark Angels in 3rd Edition. Does the revised CSM codex even reward mono-faction play like SM and SoB are apparently doing?
No, but I'm guessing that certain innate abilities like canticles, pfp, rising crescendo etc will be moved to be non soup bonuses so it doesn't feel like only marines are getting the good stuff.
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"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!" |
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2019/11/27 11:45:59
Subject: Re:8.5 Codexes
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Eldarsif wrote:I doubt CSM can be considered 8.5. It's at best a Revised Codex like they did for Dark Angels in 3rd Edition. Does the revised CSM codex even reward mono-faction play like SM and SoB are apparently doing?
Is "mono-faction"-rules the definition for "8.5"?
Or are "full re-rolls" the definition for "8.5" (New CSM and Chaos Knights certainly have that)?
Is simply being OP the definition for "8.5"? (I guess that would make the initial Imperial Knights release a contender)?
Is just any new idea of a game mechanic a step into a new edition-phase? (Genestealer Blips? Miracle Dice?)
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2019/11/27 12:15:36
Subject: Re:8.5 Codexes
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
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Sunny Side Up wrote: Eldarsif wrote:I doubt CSM can be considered 8.5. It's at best a Revised Codex like they did for Dark Angels in 3rd Edition. Does the revised CSM codex even reward mono-faction play like SM and SoB are apparently doing?
Is "mono-faction"-rules the definition for "8.5"?
Or are "full re-rolls" the definition for "8.5" (New CSM and Chaos Knights certainly have that)?
Is simply being OP the definition for "8.5"? (I guess that would make the initial Imperial Knights release a contender)?
Is just any new idea of a game mechanic a step into a new edition-phase? (Genestealer Blips? Miracle Dice?)
I dunno, what would best distract you from the fact that none of the rules since the marine supplement have been anywhere near the power level of new marines?
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"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!" |
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2019/11/27 12:23:09
Subject: 8.5 Codexes
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Dakka Veteran
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The Space Marine supplements have been far exceeding the power level of the other releases in 8th edition, both prior and since. Seems Games Workshop really did screw up with this one. I wonder what they even could do to fix it though.
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2019/11/27 12:37:21
Subject: 8.5 Codexes
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Confessor Of Sins
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GW literally told everyone who owned the original Codex: Chaos Space Marines to not buy the revised version of the Codex. They said buy Vigilus Ablaze and posted the rules for the Shadowspeare models online for free. So, yes, the revised Codex: Chaos Space Marines is not a 8.5 Codex.
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2019/11/27 12:39:40
Subject: Re:8.5 Codexes
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Fixture of Dakka
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Eldarsif wrote:I doubt CSM can be considered 8.5. It's at best a Revised Codex like they did for Dark Angels in 3rd Edition. Does the revised CSM codex even reward mono-faction play like SM and SoB are apparently doing?
Just because a codex is bad or unsatisfying, does not mean it is not part of a new cycle.
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If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. |
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2019/11/27 12:50:14
Subject: 8.5 Codexes
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Yesn't for gw it does probably, until they want to release another csm book and faq
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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2019/11/27 13:05:43
Subject: Re:8.5 Codexes
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Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord
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Karol wrote: Eldarsif wrote:I doubt CSM can be considered 8.5. It's at best a Revised Codex like they did for Dark Angels in 3rd Edition. Does the revised CSM codex even reward mono-faction play like SM and SoB are apparently doing?
Just because a codex is bad or unsatisfying, does not mean it is not part of a new cycle.
It isn't part of a new cycle, it was the dying fart of the old cycle.
New cycle: mono faction bonuses, trait choices that clearly steer to rewarding particular play choices and a reduction in generic copy/paste stratagems.
CSM 2.0 = some more unit entries, 1 table of psychic powers aaaand no changes to how the army plays or was designed.
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2019/11/27 13:09:55
Subject: 8.5 Codexes
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Fixture of Dakka
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If you go by this metric then GK did not get a 8th ed codex yet, because the one they got at the start has basic tenants, assumed first turn deep strike, no limit on psychic powers etc, not working within the core rules of 8th ed.
CSM are a 8.5 codex. they are just a very unfun, weak and uninspiring codex.
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If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. |
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2019/11/27 13:12:24
Subject: 8.5 Codexes
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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I mean, they didn't exactly call the Space Marine book "Codex Space Marines 2"...and, as Alextroy mentioned, they were pretty up front about this with regards to the CSM book:
Important Note
This is an updated version of Codex: Chaos Space Marines, containing new art, lore and updated rules encompassing new content from Imperium Nihilus: Vigilus Ablaze, including Prayers to the Dark Gods, updated units, and more. If you already own a copy of Chaos Space Marines and Vigilus Ablaze, you'll find this book a handy compilation. However, you do not need a copy of the original codex or Vigilus Ablaze to use this product!
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2019/11/27 13:29:35
Subject: Re:8.5 Codexes
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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the_scotsman wrote:Sunny Side Up wrote: Eldarsif wrote:I doubt CSM can be considered 8.5. It's at best a Revised Codex like they did for Dark Angels in 3rd Edition. Does the revised CSM codex even reward mono-faction play like SM and SoB are apparently doing?
Is "mono-faction"-rules the definition for "8.5"?
Or are "full re-rolls" the definition for "8.5" (New CSM and Chaos Knights certainly have that)?
Is simply being OP the definition for "8.5"? (I guess that would make the initial Imperial Knights release a contender)?
Is just any new idea of a game mechanic a step into a new edition-phase? (Genestealer Blips? Miracle Dice?)
I dunno, what would best distract you from the fact that none of the rules since the marine supplement have been anywhere near the power level of new marines?
Which would just prove that Marines certainly didn't "launch 8.5" from a power-level point of few and simply just are a balance-outlier similar to many others we've seen before (and many more that will come after), no?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
 alextroy wrote:. So, yes, the revised Codex: Chaos Space Marines is not a 8.5 Codex.
Yes. Because there is no such thing as an 8.5 Codex. There's just a new Space Marine book that happens to be very OP. Nothing we've not seen before. It's no more 8.5 than, say, the Imperial Knights Codex was last year.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/11/27 13:31:55
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2019/11/27 13:53:36
Subject: 8.5 Codexes
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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We've had one codex since the Marines book dropped--and it's the Sisters codex.
People claimed that the Idoneth book was an outlier when it dropped, yet if they just add Endless Spells to it? It wouldn't be too far off the mark for any of the other AoS2.0 books.
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2019/11/27 14:15:58
Subject: Re:8.5 Codexes
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Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles
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Is there any evidence to support a second wave of codex releases? Marines getting special treatment is nothing new and sisters are getting their first codex. Smells like a conspiracy theory to justify all the "Don't worry marines just got theirs first so lube up and wait for your turn.." that seems to get thrown around when discussing the Mary Sue-pplements.
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2019/11/28 23:26:20
Subject: 8.5 Codexes
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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
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Given that every codex has been released in 8th it's obvious they will go through them again - it's a license to print money.
Also don't forget that the first codexes are coming up to nearly 2.5 years now.
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"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.
To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle
 5300 |  2800 |  3600 |  1600 | |
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2019/11/29 00:33:58
Subject: Re:8.5 Codexes
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
The dark hollows of Kentucky
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 DominayTrix wrote:Is there any evidence to support a second wave of codex releases? Marines getting special treatment is nothing new and sisters are getting their first codex. Smells like a conspiracy theory to justify all the "Don't worry marines just got theirs first so lube up and wait for your turn.." that seems to get thrown around when discussing the Mary Sue-pplements.
Mary Sue-pplements?
Fething LOVE what you did there. 
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