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So they must have boatloads of tech marines

There are dozens of sources that say regular battle brothers crew the vehicles. Techmarines are magi of the mechanicus brotherhoods they have PhDs in how to run warp engines and build fortress monasteries they aren’t the drivers for tanks.

it’s just a shoulder pad in the accessory sprue and a couple of depictions

I think it has been described Some marines that have an affinity for technology assist in the armoury. Others that have a medical affinity assist in the apothecarian. From these battle brothers future techmarines/apothecaries etc are chosen from. I guess that the vehicle crew come from these battle-brothers. And that they were the machine symbol when operating as vehicle crew, to not cause confusion on the battlefield for what their current role is.

I think that the "1000 marine limit" thing is an in universe laymen's view. Because a typical company is 10 squads of 10 marines. And the codex is not that exact. Like IRL how big is a brigade, well it varies. A Chapter was a formation size in the Legions (at least with the Ultramarines). So breaking the Legions down into Chapters would be like breaking a Division down into independent Brigades. That would also explain why Division level support (Space Marine Super Heavy Tanks etc) are not around anymore.

pelicaniforce wrote:
There are dozens of sources that say regular battle brothers crew the vehicles. Techmarines are magi of the mechanicus brotherhoods they have PhDs in how to run warp engines and build fortress monasteries they aren’t the drivers for tanks.

it’s just a shoulder pad in the accessory sprue and a couple of depictions

Njal Stormcaller made a comment like that while he was trying his hand at Navigator in Ashes of Prospero.

pelicaniforce wrote:
There are dozens of sources that say regular battle brothers crew the vehicles. Techmarines are magi of the mechanicus brotherhoods they have PhDs in how to run warp engines and build fortress monasteries they aren’t the drivers for tanks.

it’s just a shoulder pad in the accessory sprue and a couple of depictions

Techmarines pilot Stormravens, Stormtalons and Stormhawk Interceptors. Confirmed in the White Dwarf release of the Stormraven in 2011, and the other two use the same pilot.

The gunners are sometimes Marines fused to their tank like a discount dreadnought. Same deal with defences in the fortress monasteries.

 Deadshot wrote:

pelicaniforce wrote:
There are dozens of sources that say regular battle brothers crew the vehicles. Techmarines are magi of the mechanicus brotherhoods they have PhDs in how to run warp engines and build fortress monasteries they aren’t the drivers for tanks.

it’s just a shoulder pad in the accessory sprue and a couple of depictions

Techmarines pilot Stormravens, Stormtalons and Stormhawk Interceptors. Confirmed in the White Dwarf release of the Stormraven in 2011, and the other two use the same pilot.

Codex Supplements Ultramarines and White Scars, state both the gunships, like Stormravens and Stormtalons, and interdiction craft, like the Stormhawk, are flown by 7th company. Imperial Fists supplement says it's techmarines only. Salamanders and Raven Guard says a mix of techmarines and regular marines. So it definitely varies by chapter.

It comes from several posts.

Techmarines drive some - notably most fighter pilots are techmarines.

Transports - rhinos, for example - are often driven by marines from the reserve companies (6-9)

'Armoury' tanks, like predators and razorbacks, are crewed by a pool of fifty odd marines who aren't part of any company - that's who sergeant chronus is sergeant OF.

And, yes, even the ultramarines aren't codex compliant - Cassius' tyrannic war veterans are, for example, a divergence.

Just to clarify for those who've not read Faith and Fury, the BT are not just taking advantage of a loophole in the Codex Astartes. They completely reject the whole Codex, seeing it as an insult to Dorn's teachings. There's no mention of them being 'allowed' to be over-strength because they're on permanent crusade. They just do not give a damn for the Codex at all in any way. They're not just a little bit over-strength due to enthusiastic recruitment. It is explicitly stated that each BT crusade consists of several thousand marines.

And, even though they're dispersed across the Galaxy, every crusade is ultimately under the authority of Helbrecht. They are a Legion in all but name.

Interestingly, F&F also states that the BT are merely "one of the largest" chapters. So there are potentially even bigger ones out there.

 Duskweaver wrote:
Interestingly, F&F also states that the BT are merely "one of the largest" chapters. So there are potentially even bigger ones out there.

That's just GW hedging: https://xkcd.com/1368/

I wouldn't put much thought into it.

 Duskweaver wrote:
Just to clarify for those who've not read Faith and Fury, the BT are not just taking advantage of a loophole in the Codex Astartes. They completely reject the whole Codex, seeing it as an insult to Dorn's teachings. There's no mention of them being 'allowed' to be over-strength because they're on permanent crusade. They just do not give a damn for the Codex at all in any way. They're not just a little bit over-strength due to enthusiastic recruitment. It is explicitly stated that each BT crusade consists of several thousand marines.

And, even though they're dispersed across the Galaxy, every crusade is ultimately under the authority of Helbrecht. They are a Legion in all but name.

Interestingly, F&F also states that the BT are merely "one of the largest" chapters. So there are potentially even bigger ones out there.

At this point it doesn't really matter anyway. Consider:

During the Horrid Ork Saga, the successors came together to recreate the Imperial Fists.

The Blood Angels and Successors definitely operated as a united legion during Devastation of Baal

and the only thing that held the Space Wolves back was whatever magic crap that makes their geneseed 'not work' on people not of Fenris. And that doesn't even seem to apply anymore with Primaris, unless Cawl was habitually collecting specimens to create the Space Woofed primaris (Of which there were enough to establish new chapters, without Wolfbrother issues).

And with a few exceptions, the DA successors still keep all their ties, and would likely come running if called by Azzie (or the Lion. Or possibly even Luthor or Cypher)

And if any Ultramarine descendants would say no to Roboute, I'd be shocked, so thats... probably 60%+ of all existing chapters, that could/would operate under a single commander?

And, really, what else would you expect? After 10,000 years, almost nobody in the Imperium remembers why the Legions were broken up in the first place. It makes perfect sense that all the guard-rails have been gradually eroded as more and more compromises were made to deal with crisis after crisis over the millennia.

Poor Lufgt Huron must be pretty pissed off about it all, though.

jareddm wrote:

 Duskweaver wrote:
Interestingly, F&F also states that the BT are merely "one of the largest" chapters. So there are potentially even bigger ones out there.

That's just GW hedging: https://xkcd.com/1368/

I wouldn't put much thought into it.

that kinda hedging is pretty common in good setting design. back a few years ago someone linked a copy of the old writers rules for Star Wars back when WEG was writing SW, and one of their rules was NEVER say absolute statements like "this is the most powerful" or "this is the biggest"

BrianDavion wrote:

jareddm wrote:

 Duskweaver wrote:
Interestingly, F&F also states that the BT are merely "one of the largest" chapters. So there are potentially even bigger ones out there.

That's just GW hedging: https://xkcd.com/1368/

I wouldn't put much thought into it.

that kinda hedging is pretty common in good setting design. back a few years ago someone linked a copy of the old writers rules for Star Wars back when WEG was writing SW, and one of their rules was NEVER say absolute statements like "this is the most powerful" or "this is the biggest"

Sure, and if this were the first time the Black Templars were ever mentioned, I would buy that. But it's not. Imagine if someone were to show up with a fan-made chapter, or hell, even a new official chapter, that was said to be on par with the Black Templars in terms of size. What do you think the community reaction would be?