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 solkan wrote:
Not even Space Marines have armored eye balls.

While this is true, there are several things to remember about that. You don't need more than a good old finger to damage an eyeball. It's not even all that hard to do in the sense that even a young teenager can strike hard enough to damage a human eye. The problem is that gouging an eye with your finger is very risky. If you miss your shot, you will probably end up breaking fingers on someone's face without causing much damage. The other problem is that oging out the eye of someone isn't a sure way to stop a human. A fighter high on adrenaline might keep swinging even after losing an eye; in that context the eye gouging is more often use to incapacitate an opponent and maximise your chances in a fight since you reduce the field of vision of your opponent and still hurt him or her. A Space Marine is capable of srugging off horrible injuries as they have a very weird relationship with pain, they feel it just doesn't stop them. While their eye isn't tougher than any human eye, they can absolutely shrug the pain of the gouging and simply keep on fighting. One of the most dangerous thing to do in a fight is attacking an opponent in a way he can shrug it off since that leaves an opening in your guard that he or she can exploit. Eye gouging isn't the finishing move it's often thought to be.

 Crimson wrote:
I really don't understand how such a simple concept is so hard to grasp. That one fighter is superior doesn't mean that they're invincible. We have all played the game, the dice give weird results sometimes; and that applies to the real life too!

There is a difference between statically possible and statistical impossible. A normal human beating a walking tank that’s as bothered by lost critical organs and body parts and I am by a light breeze is getting pretty close to statically impossible. It happens way to often in 40k to be excused by warp magic. But if the person makes Bjornsson look malnourished, then he might have the strength to cut through the meter of metal, bone, hide, and sinew needed to even hurt the creature.

 Crimson wrote:

I'm pretty sure that there is a greater than zero percent chance for a human to beat either gorilla or bear in unarmed combat.

Just no sir...

Honsou, a space marine, has his arm chopped off by a baseline human who was much more skilled than he was and would likely have won.

Nagasina is easily more skilled with a blade than an astartes in most cases but still at a massive disadvantage due to being a standard human.

Luther....

 Formosa wrote:


Luther....

..had received certain genetic and biochemical enhancements. He was laso pumped to primarch levels of power by the chaos gods when he fought the Lion.

 Andersp90 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:


Luther....

..had received certain genetic and biochemical enhancements. He was also pumped to primarch levels of power by the chaos gods when he fought the Lion.

but was still a human, not as powerful as an astartes but could easily best one due to skill and THEN was enhanced by the gods, Luther is one of those ultra rare humans that is superior to an astartes just as Polux is one of those ultra rare marines who is superior to a Primarch (in his case is void warefare and tactics)

 Formosa wrote:


but was still a human

I get the sense that he was way closer to astartes levels of power (if not equal) than to a regular human (pre chaos).

Fighting with weapons is different to fighting bare handed. With weapons it will generally come down to skill, speed, quality of weapons/armour. Under those circumstances it is feasible a peak Human could defeat and enhanced Human.

When it comes to unarmed combat the factors are different. Can't see any human managing to win unarmed against an adult gorilla or a bear under any circumstances. Not even sure humans are physically capable of knocking animals like that out and are certainly never going to overpower it even if you are the world strongest man.

the power density that a gorilla or bear has is probably what a scout/aspirant level would be.

a Kodiak is what an Astartes should be compared to.

Racerguy180 wrote:
the power density that a gorilla or bear has is probably what a scout/aspirant level would be.

a Kodiak is what an Astartes should be compared to.

Mountain gorillas are a much stronger than kodiak bear pound for pound. An average Kodiak bear has the strength of about 6 men while an average silverback has about the strength of 9 men (of course we are talking about an average men; the man described above has abot 4 times the strength of a normal man). In other words, a man, no matter how strong is hopelessly outmatched by a gorilla or any large mammal in terms of naked strength and that doesn't cover for fangs, claws, fur, bone density and skin thickness. A Space Marine, without his armor, is, in my opinion, a little stronger than the strongest man. So about 5 times stronger than an average man.

 solkan wrote:

Not even Space Marines have armored eye balls.

This fact is particularly relevant if we're talking about a Space Marine fighting the man who played the Mountain.