Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

yukishiro1 wrote:
LOS is measured from the mek gun for all purposes, not from the krew. But the other poster is wrong in what he says. They have to remain within 1 inch of the mek gun, and they can't be stacked on top of each other just like you can't stack any other model. They aren't "ignored for all game purposes," they are considered a single model for all game purposes, except for LOS/visibility, which goes off the mek gun only.

Here is the exact wording:

Grot Krew: Each Mek Gun and its grot krew are treated
as a single model for all rules purposes. The krew must
remain within 1" of their Mek Gun and cannot be
targeted or attacked separately. The range and visibility
of all attacks made by a Mek Gun are measured from the
Mek Gun, not the krew.

Are you saying the grot krew can’t be on the Mek gun?
The model gw sells literally has a grot w binoculars on the Mek gun.
I have all 6 of my mekguns modeled with at least 1 grot on it.

"This unit contains 1 Mek Gun and 6 grot krew, one manning the weapon and five standing alongside it."

So that's fine.

gungo wrote:
Are you saying the grot krew can’t be on the Mek gun?
The model gw sells literally has a grot w binoculars on the Mek gun.
I have all 6 of my mekguns modeled with at least 1 grot on it.

That doesn't count towards the required models you need to field within an inch of the gun. It's just additional visual flair and playing it as anything else is modeling for advantage at best and cheating at worst.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

gungo wrote:
Are you saying the grot krew can’t be on the Mek gun?
The model gw sells literally has a grot w binoculars on the Mek gun.
I have all 6 of my mekguns modeled with at least 1 grot on it.

That doesn't count towards the required models you need to field within an inch of the gun. It's just additional visual flair and playing it as anything else is modeling for advantage at best and cheating at worst.

If a grot is on the gun he is within an inch of the gun. Normally, you cannot put models on top of models, but the grots and the gun are treated as one model.

 Tastyfish wrote:
"This unit contains 1 Mek Gun and 6 grot krew, one manning the weapon and five standing alongside it."

So that's fine.

If that's the unit description it pretty clear that it's 5 individual grot models plus the gun and grot attached (but counted as one) model so its 6 models in total.

 p5freak wrote:

 Canadian 5th wrote:

gungo wrote:
Are you saying the grot krew can’t be on the Mek gun?
The model gw sells literally has a grot w binoculars on the Mek gun.
I have all 6 of my mekguns modeled with at least 1 grot on it.

That doesn't count towards the required models you need to field within an inch of the gun. It's just additional visual flair and playing it as anything else is modeling for advantage at best and cheating at worst.

If a grot is on the gun he is within an inch of the gun. Normally, you cannot put models on top of models, but the grots and the gun are treated as one model.

Grot Krew: Each Mek Gun and its grot krew are treated
as a single model for all rules purposes. The krew must
remain within 1" of their Mek Gun and cannot be
targeted or attacked separately. The range and visibility
of all attacks made by a Mek Gun are measured from the
Mek Gun, not the krew.

Show me where being treated as one model allows for the stacking of models. I'll take a page number and exact quotation, please.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 Canadian 5th wrote:

gungo wrote:
Are you saying the grot krew can’t be on the Mek gun?
The model gw sells literally has a grot w binoculars on the Mek gun.
I have all 6 of my mekguns modeled with at least 1 grot on it.

That doesn't count towards the required models you need to field within an inch of the gun. It's just additional visual flair and playing it as anything else is modeling for advantage at best and cheating at worst.

If a grot is on the gun he is within an inch of the gun. Normally, you cannot put models on top of models, but the grots and the gun are treated as one model.

Grot Krew: Each Mek Gun and its grot krew are treated
as a single model for all rules purposes. The krew must
remain within 1" of their Mek Gun and cannot be
targeted or attacked separately. The range and visibility
of all attacks made by a Mek Gun are measured from the
Mek Gun, not the krew.

Show me where being treated as one model allows for the stacking of models. I'll take a page number and exact quotation, please.

A grot model on the mek gun is within 1" of the mek gun. Show me where within 1" of the mek gun says the grot models must be within 1" base to base to the mek gun with their bases on the battlefield.

 p5freak wrote:
A grot model on the mek gun is within 1" of the mek gun. Show me where within 1" of the mek gun says the grot models must be within 1" base to base to the mek gun with their bases on the battlefield.

It doesn't have to say that, the game needs to give explicit permission to do anything. Given that the default state of the game is models bases down on the table, as established by diagrams and pictures of gameplay, there would need to be a rule allowing for anything other than this default state.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
A grot model on the mek gun is within 1" of the mek gun. Show me where within 1" of the mek gun says the grot models must be within 1" base to base to the mek gun with their bases on the battlefield.

It doesn't have to say that, the game needs to give explicit permission to do anything. Given that the default state of the game is models bases down on the table, as established by diagrams and pictures of gameplay, there would need to be a rule allowing for anything other than this default state.

There is no rule saying that bases must be down on the table.

 p5freak wrote:

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
A grot model on the mek gun is within 1" of the mek gun. Show me where within 1" of the mek gun says the grot models must be within 1" base to base to the mek gun with their bases on the battlefield.

It doesn't have to say that, the game needs to give explicit permission to do anything. Given that the default state of the game is models bases down on the table, as established by diagrams and pictures of gameplay, there would need to be a rule allowing for anything other than this default state.

There is no rule saying that bases must be down on the table.

It's literally in the definition of the word "base".

One of the guys can clearly be on the gun as the data sheet itself allows it.

As to the other five, the rules itself contradict themselves - first it says "treated as one model for all purposes," but then later on in the very same rule it says they aren't treated as one model for all purposes, because you draw LOS differently depending on whether the mek gun is shooting (from mek gun only, not krew) or being shot at (to any of them). If they are really being "treated as one model for all purposes," that would seem to imply they could be based together (or, in this case, glued together, as the model has no base). After all, they're supposed to be one model...except that the rules then say they aren't. Typical GW.

Now honestly, unless you're playing high level tournaments, most people probably won't care if you put more of the models onto the gun too, as long as it doesn't look too ridiculous. But technically it seems like an open question whether they have to be separately based and deployed on the field or whether they can be put onto the gun if you want to.

That said, because of the weird wording of the rule, stacking them on the gun gives you a gameplay advantage (eliminating the ability to shoot at the krew while being out of LOS of the gun), so I wouldn't do it because it feels like basing for advantage.

In a competitive setting it would come down to a tournament ruling.

I've seen various people put the gun and grots on a single base. In theory you could claim odd rules interactions - but if you measure to the model rather than the base I don't think its a real problem. Its always a guess - but I think that's the intent of the rules. Makes it like a guardsman heavy weapons team/regular vehicle.

Yes but the issue is you can measure and use LOS to the grot krew instead if you're an opponent firing at the mek gun. So if you base them together, you're getting an advantage over playing them how they are supposed to be played (the kit is supplied with five bases and modeled that way, so that's clearly the default) - at least if you base them closer to the gun than you could if they were on five individual bases. And then you would also need to add a centimeter or so to simulate the size of the phantom grot base if it would make a difference in whether the unit is in range or not.

If they said to measure to and from the mek gun for all purposes - not just for when the mek gun shoots - I don't think it'd be much of an issue. But they can't say that, because otherwise you could use your five based grots to block off access to the gun itself in combat, so someone charging couldn't actually charge it as they couldn't get within 1 inch of the gun itself...

Maybe this needs to be moved to YMDC at this point.

Soon as we start defining words and terms with dictionaries is a good sign.

None of this discussion helps to fight mek gun spam since it was resolved that they can't meassure LoS from them.

Well, you technically can use it to fight mek gun spam. If you have 48 inch range guns, and they position their krew in front of the gun, you can technically shoot at the gun via the krew but the gun can't shoot back since *it* measures from the gun, whereas you measure to the grots.

But yes, it's obviously very technical and unlikely to come up except one game in 50.