Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Yes Cawl is a hero or heretic.

He can even be both. Hero heretic. Heretic hero.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Cawl has worked with the Emperor directly, and has a mandate as old as the Imperium itself. Chaos influence? No chance - he is driven by science and is interested in the material.

Not a heretic.

Driven by science? Tzeentch would like to know your location.

Cawl is a force for good in the galaxy, but he is also absolutely a heretic. His push for innovation and progress spits in the face of the Imperium's dogma - he's a heretic, but let's just say that the Imperium could use some Change if it's ever going to improve.

In The Great Work, he openly admits to the Scythes that he acts in ways that would be considered heretical. However, he genuinely serves humanity and seeks to close the great rift. He functions far more like an Inquisitor now thanks to/in spite of Guilliman. Cawl Inferior on the other hand...

As far as the new tech development goes it's not like the Imperium hasn't already been massive hypocrites.

IIRC when a new Predator variant gets built the AdMech froths at the mouth, but after they look at the combat data they sweep the whole matter under the rug as "a new STC fragment was found".

The only difference with Cawl is it's a larger scale and not being obfuscated.

And before someone "aksshually..."s me it might have been a different combat vehicle, point is AdMech will still pick up things that work while decrying any new development

What is that quote? “Defeat allows no excuse, victory needs none?” Until something linked to Cawl goes suitably sideways he will be untouchable methinks.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Cawl has worked with the Emperor directly, and has a mandate as old as the Imperium itself. Chaos influence? No chance - he is driven by science and is interested in the material.

Not a heretic.

Driven by science? Tzeentch would like to know your location.

Cawl is a force for good in the galaxy, but he is also absolutely a heretic. His push for innovation and progress spits in the face of the Imperium's dogma - he's a heretic, but let's just say that the Imperium could use some Change if it's ever going to improve.

Imperial dogma is very much ‘as we say, not as we do’.

About the only reason the Fabricator General might have the arse with Cawl is that Cawl is a toady lickspittle. Indeed it’s worth bearing in mind that Cawl himself has declined the station of Fabricator General, as he can’t be doing with the faffing involved.

As for driven by science? He doesn’t dabble in warp craft, only increasing mankind’s understanding of Blackstone and it’s potential. Even then, it’s how to best turn it from ‘attract’ to ‘repel’.

Heck, it’s even possible that he could, given time, recreate what Abaddon destroyed. If successful, he can effectively stitch closed the Great Rift. Even if he only does it in a dozen areas to create safe passage, that’s a massive war winning move.

Sound like Kryptman. Into Blackstone instead of Tyranids.

Only considerably more knowledgeable.

The Kryptman gambit was standard Imperial fare really. Yes sooner or later you’ll need to deal with the fallout, but for now that’s a worry for another decade or two (downside being, the longer your worry is postponed, the bigger the eventual Next Problem). The only hope there is whether it’s Orks or Nids that emerge victorious, it’ll be a Pyrrhic victory.

Cawl? Not so much at all. As with all Adepts of the Mechanicus, he’s a sucker for hoarding knowledge and being difficult about sharing it with others. But his plan has far fewer risks involved, not to mention the backing of Guilliman, and via the Custodes (who aren’t shy about heretic or heretek wrecking) The Emperor Himself.

In essence? Those supporting Cawl, however reluctantly, carry far, far more political clout than his detractors - as you’re literally claiming to know better than Him On Earth. And if that’s not the ultimate expression of Heresy?

 Arachnofiend wrote:
let's just say that the Imperium could use some Change if it's ever going to improve.

OMG, THAT idea alone is heretic on so many levels... Let's not say this anywhere an Inquisitor could hear it.

Unless they are a Recongregator Inquisitor.