Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

1) I want 'true line of sight' gone. That would be great.

2) Keep blast templates out of the game

3) AOS style turns

4) Morale effects being more devestating. Either more models lost on bad roll, or a better mechanic overall.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
Concept of primary detachment.

What does this mean?

I'm guessing it means your Primary force would be the one with all the options, your supporting force would be limited to a few specific roles and maybe be limited to a certain percentage of your total points.

An example:

I'm playing Alpha Legion as my Primary Force in a 2000-point game. I can choose whatever type of detachment I like, all that stuff. I'm taking Renegades & Heretics as a supporting detachment, but I am not allowed to exceed 500 points (1/4 of my total allotted points for the game), I can only take certain kinds of formations, perhaps only certain kinds of units, and perhaps there's a limit on how many CP they can generate and what I can use them for.

He might have been the person I was discussing this with a while back, actually.

No, I was getting at declaring your primary detachment for the purpose of stratagems, WL traits & CP generation. Picking 'astra militarum' as primary detachment will allow you to earn CP fron eligible faction keywords and determine the WL trait and stratagems yoy can use.

Allies should be taken as true auxillary and for their statlines only, and not what they unlock.

TLOS has been a thing in 40k since Rogue Trader. It's going nowhere, no matter how much people gnash their teeth.

 Grimtuff wrote:
TLOS has been a thing in 40k since Rogue Trader. It's going nowhere, no matter how much people gnash their teeth.

While true, in the past there were more concessions to limit TLOS.

I remember when you could:

-Not target banners, weapons, wings, and antenna as default
-Declare a unit to be hiding, turning partial LOS block from terrain into full LOS block
-Gain more cover depending on how much LOS was blocked
-Draw line of sight only from the barrel of the weapon being fired, and only in a fixed arc.
-Only target the closest visible enemy unless you passed a LD test.

While it is true that TLOS has always existed, it is far more extreme now than it was "back in the old days" even if weapon ranges were the same. Which they're not, to be clear, weapon ranges have increased massively.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
TLOS has been a thing in 40k since Rogue Trader. It's going nowhere, no matter how much people gnash their teeth.

While true, in the past there were more concessions to limit TLOS.

I remember when you could:

-Not target banners, weapons, wings, and antenna as default
-Declare a unit to be hiding, turning partial LOS block from terrain into full LOS block
-Gain more cover depending on how much LOS was blocked
-Draw line of sight only from the barrel of the weapon being fired, and only in a fixed arc.
-Only target the closest visible enemy unless you passed a LD test.

While it is true that TLOS has always existed, it is far more extreme now than it was "back in the old days" even if weapon ranges were the same. Which they're not, to be clear, weapon ranges have increased massively.

Agreed on all points, just pointing out we are not getting the ol' "Magic cylinder" (Hey, veteran Dakkanauts, 'member those conversations on this board?) in 40k. TLOS will be in 9th in one form or another.

1. I'd love some sort of sweeping advance against units falling back. Perhaps get 1 attack against the fleeing unit.
2. Monsters can fire assault/rapid fire into melee.
3. More reliable charges.
4. Some recompense for hordes getting trashed. Anything. My poor gants...

StarHunter25 wrote:
1. I'd love some sort of sweeping advance against units falling back. Perhaps get 1 attack against the fleeing unit.

So much this. Currently there is practically no disadvantage to breaking off from HTH. Oh boo hoo, I can't shoot- well guess what, the rest of my army can do so at that unit that slogged across the board to get there...

They need a free strike mechanic like in WMH, make it dangerous to pull out of HTH unless you have the correct training (aka the Parry USR in WMH).

Getting rid of all double fighting/shooting stratagems and fighting/shooting on death abilities. They were bad with ynarri and they're bad with everyone else too.

Eldritch Storm

No more IGOUGO. D6 is replaced with D10/12. Apocalypse loss removal system. No more highly random stats, like D6 shots, D6 damage. Plasma only blows up on unmodified 1s. No more than +2/-2 stacking modifiers. No more reroll everything, just 1s. No more fallback without penalty. Tanks can shoot in melee (which is confirmed). Vehicles shouldnt suffer penalties for moving and firing heavy weapons. Same CP for everyone, based on points, not detachments.

Something for non-psychic armies to do in the 'psychic phase'...some opportunity for interaction other than just removing your models.

Rewrite the whole rule set from the ground up. A proper foundation is what 40k needs to not be a bloaty mess and 8th is the most flimsy foundation possible for a game (and 8th has bloated in a way that rapidly outpaced anything we saw outside of the end days of 7th).

Before my laundry list of changes, GW needs to make something like a quick reference sheets free, updated, and online for people to print out. It makes complex rule sets 10 times easier to play when you can easily reference the core rules from a sheet instead of digging through a giant book or flipping through multiple books.

Short list of mechanics needed to be properly fleshed out and built into the core game.

Indepth terrain mechanics (not just this minus to hit gak that breaks a d6 dice system)

Core unit mechanics and functions other than just move, shoot, chop, die

USRs that cover some fundamental abilities shared across many units. Shouldn't rely on stratagems for units to function differently and universal rules means you can design around other units having those functions.

Area of effect weapons that proper account for model proximity. 8th desperately suffers from a lack of penalty to castling and stacking on aura units. I really like blast templates and scatter dies but perhaps just having templates indicating the blast area and you roll to hit as per normal (could make scatter an optional rule).

Vehicle and MC rules so they function differently to weapons than infantry. Lasguns should NEVER be able to harm a land raider for example. I personally like the AV and vehicle facing system but vehicles should have armor. Something like 3+ for all vehicles except flyers and skimmers who get 4+ but can still jink, rear armor hits are 1 less armor. Lets proper anti vehicle weapons like missiles, lascannon, rail gun, etc properly punch holes in vehicles while weak AP weapons spammy weapons like scatterlasers and gauss flayers will be less effective at spamming hull points off a vehicle. MCs should be the same except with its own system. More wounds than 7ths 3 to 5 wound/HP range but not like 8ths ballooning amount of wounds.

Avoiding using a bunch of haphazardly given out +1 -1 modifiers which results in dumb crap like stratagems + spamming pulse rifles being the best anti Knight weapon in the game. Again d6 in a universe with vastly different races, units, weapons, etc does not lend it self well to a bunch of modifiers to hitting, wounding, etc as it gets janky without something like 10 or 20 sided dice to create granularity. I don't think 40k could do a transition away from d6 despite it probably benefiting from it.

Get rid of the vast majority of stratagems. Too much like MtG instances or CoH munition abilities. Rather see it rolled into codex specific abilities like WAAAGH or Tactical Doctrines. Fewer of them, more strategic in their application, more global for the army, very refined to the army's playstyle.

LOS, directional shooting, closest casualties need to make a return. Perhaps allowing units taking casualties to consolidate forward (but not beyond the closest original model) after a shooting phase to off set shooting casualties being shot away from the enemy.

Rework morale system to cause units to panic, route, etc. Game needs more mechanics that diminish a unit for a turn instead of just the binary (alive or dead).

Remove the degrading profile thing and instead return some form of status effect that reduces a vehicle/MC's performance for a turn without completely gimping the unit. Limits of the d6 system prevent this from functioning well for fringe cases such as Orks.

Some form of activation system or perhaps an interwoven turn system. Something to prevent such a hard alpha strikes. Could be something like light infantry can engage or react before the enemy shoots or some other system that helps defuse the hammer blow nature of 40k combat. Not too keen on AoS's system.

Tone down hero abilities. Auras should be far more rare or more so limited to simpler things like leadership. Rarer examples such as the Tau Ethereal or certain psychic abilities should be aura based. Instead the majority of such Character abilities should be sorta like orders given to a unit.

ICs join units like before 8th as to avoid the whole dumpster fire rule set for ICs being almost untargetable. Instead of the IC applying their special ability to the unit they are attached to, they can apply it to a unit within a certain range. Example being a Fireblade is with a unit of FWs and has 2 other units of FWs nearby. The Fireblade's unit takes moderate loses but a nearby FW unit is near full strength. The Fireblade can use his extra shots ability on that near full strength unit to get the most of of his ability without having to bounce between unit to unit.

Return the psychic phase to have some actual risk management. Maybe something like when casting a power you get the psyker's mastery level + a "draw" in dice when attempting to cast a power. Add more dice to your attempt but it increases the risk of perils. Warp charge pool should be avoided at all costs as its a flawed design. Not sure about denying but definitely prevent an army with 10 psykers from bullying the army with 1 psyker from ever casting a thing.

Multi wound weapons should be a lot rarer and multi wound models also being less common than what there is in 8th.

Make a beginner rule set that is super simplified for new players to learn the ropes with its own beginner "codex" based on units found in the starter boxes (start collecting). These rules are like the 8th core rules with move, shoot, chop, and some very basic character/unit abilities. These mechanics and rules are independent to the core rules and codex entries for the main game so balance/mechanics changes in the full game doesn't impact the starter rule set. Its super casual without stepping on the toes of those who want the complex gameplay.

1) Alternate Activations
2) Better terrain rules
3) More abstract line of sight rules (something as simple as "you can see and fire into terrain but not past it" would be nice). This kind of goes hand in hand with #2 really.
4) Less lethality - I'd rather see a handful of units slog it out for a good chunk of the match instead of just have a bunch of super killy units delete each other on turns 1 and 2
5) Fairly balanced factions - true 100% balance is impossible, but getting to a point where people can at least agree the game is mostly balanced would be nice

Corsairs get any type of support. lol.

the_scotsman wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
While i don't have strong opion on the ambush maybe rename it. It makes zero sense for rule and name. You have been moving in open for turn or two and then...ambush from direct sight?-)

Just an idea. IMO, if a large fraction of your ability to turn off enemy shooting via melee is being removed, melee needs to become way, WAYYYYY more reliable than it is now...and it sounds like from the rules designed with 9th in mind, we're not seeing a removal of random charge moves or overwatch.

Melee in 8th reminds me of "Spot" mechanics in other super-beardy wargames. "Before you can roll to hit, you must roll to see if you can see the enemy!" This inevitably just results in your units twiddling around unable to do anything while an enemy unit sits right in front of them and the chortling beard walrus running the game explains "no no, this is much MORE realistic because it represents the fooooog of waaaaar."

Imagine if every time you wanted to shoot, you had to roll a 2+ or the unit could not shoot at all and just had to stand there for the remainder of the turn. That's how playing melee feels in 8th right now, except much, much less reliable.

Uh.... I don't think I often fail charges that I would have made before the introduction of random charge rolls. But sometimes I get lucky and make long ones.

IIRC it used to be that charging was a fixed 6" move, right?


That said, dream changes for a new edition:
Removal of multiple wounds. Vehicles and Monsters are the same, and share penetration and critical hit tables for damage and destruction. MW infantry just have more armor or toughness
Return to the old armorsave and AP system. The new one I was initially a fan of, but I'm less so now based on the way it benefits different units.
Reduced standard game size to 1500 points. It needs to be big enough to have enough on the board and not be too swingy, and small enough to be accessible
Fire Points for transport vehicles.
Imperial Knights are folded into AdMech as LoW choices, thus eliminating the Super Heavy detachment and All-Lord-of-War armies.



Morale and CQC Changes
Morale for infantry as units becoming pinned. A unit tests leadership at the end of the shooting phase modified by casualties, and if it fails it becomes pinned and can't move or charge or conduct defensive fire and shoots much less effectively until the end of your next turn. Artillery, heavy vehicle weapons, and automatic weapons may make pinning much more likely.
Units that have other friendly units and commanders around them have increased leadership so they're less likely to be pinned or rout.
Units that shoot with non-assault weapons cannot charge.
A total rework of overwatch: When charged, a unit may conduct defensive fire. Unsaved wounds/something or other reduces the range of the charge but does not inflict casualties. If the charger no longer can reach it's target, the charge fails and the charger becomes pinned. This should be very likely to happen if it's not suppressed.
A total rework change to the melee phases: After a charge, the unit fights, then the defender fights back, then both roll leadership modified by casualties. Anybody who fails leadership immediately routs [no overrun] and falls back at their movement speed towards their board edge. If both parties are still engaged, repeat until somebody runs away. Any unit that routs counts as being pinned.

This should create a dynamic of unsupported charges usually fail miserably, but if you support your chargers with automatic weapon/artillery fire to pin down the enemy and suppress their defensive fire, you can get in very easily and drive them out in a immediate and decisive action.


Psychic and HQ changes:
New phase for leaders, Command Phase at the beginning of the turn, where all commanders issue Orders they know to troops. Psychic Powers also resolved in this phase
Orders replace aura abilities. Choose a unit and give it an Order from a Leader. most HQ's only know 1 or 2 orders that are their abilities.
A unit can only gain the benefit of one order at a time. 4 guys shouting instructions will just confused people. Psychic powers may be stacked.
Spell-like abilities [Crypteks, Saintly Blessings, etc] are operated as psychic powers.
Universal Orders:
Go to Ground!/Hull Down! This unit may not move or charge, and may not fight in the combat phase, and is hit automatically in the fight phase. In exchange, it is hard to hit in the shooting phase.
Run!/Flat Out! This unit doubles it's move speed, but may not shoot and may not charge.

This should limit death stars and aura stacking, and consolidate buffs to a single buff phase. Some defensive buffs make holding points easier, and encourage charging to dislodge units in good cover against shooting attacks [it may take a lot to suppress them though]


Smoke! All artillery units can fire smoke, some units can throw smoke grenades, and vehicles can fire their smoke dischargers in the shooting phase to create short walls of smoke that break Line of Sight. This can be used to break firing lines, protect units from defensive fire, etc. Artillery smoke shells are obviously the largest smoked area and most versatile, but tanks and infantry can protect themselves or nearby units.


All of these should increase combined arms interdependence rather than making super units, with a special focus on suppressing the enemy with ranged fire [especially artillery fire] and charging to drive them out of key positions.

You know, maybe I should write this up in the homebrew section...



More realistic dream changes/errata:
Measure to vehicle hull, do not count decorations including TC's, aerials, spikes, dozer blades, etc.
Cover for tracing LoS through partially obscuring objects but not being in them
Tanks don't care about infantry in B2B.

-Alternating Activations

-Psychic Phase dice pool like 8th ed. fantasy for risk management. Currently it's a special ability that goes off ~60% of the time. Fun...

-Revamped Cover system

-Command Points are earned throughout the game by capturing objectives and destroying enemies

-Artifacts and unit specific weapons no longer linked to command points

-Strategems are one use only.

-Remove Auras

-Bring Back Independent Character rules

-Rewrite the entire system using USR's and remove Bespoke rules

-Remove ~90% of all re-rolls

-Tone down shooting

-Bring back the old Morale system, this one sucks.

Some suggestions I really like, some I really dislike.

The OP asked for our wish lists, not for us to critque each other's wish lists, so I'm going to try really hard to avoid doing that.

However, what happens regarding AA vs. IGOUGO IS a part of my wish list, but it requires a bit of discussion. Personally, I believe that 9th, with all it's hype on games of all sizes, will eventually lead to the demise of Kill Team and Apocalypse. It's not going to be an instant death- they've already said Kill Team will be unaffected. But they did not say it would continue to be supported once newer rules fill the design space.

That messes with my thinking on AA vs. IGOUGO. I believe that each has it's advantages and each has its disadvantages. For battles of 1500-2000, I personally prefer IGOUGO, but I acknowledge that this is preference and not necessarily the right choice for everyone.

If Kill Team and Apocalypse continue to be supported, it's a far more black and white choice for me. If these games continue to exist and thrive, then the answer is leave 40k where it is, because people who are bent on AA have options to fix their problem by playing the game they want. If on the other hand, these folks got their way, every game in the range would be AA, which would leave people like me with NO OPTION to enjoy the game that we enjoy it.

And before any AA crusaders get indignant, please remember that I already indicated that the demise of KT and Apocalypse would cause me to re-evaluate the situation. I just don't want to turn an everyone wins status quo into some people have to get shafted for the sake of change scenario.

One of the biggest justifications for wanting AA is first strike protection. That's a valid concern. But remember, first strike protection is mostly necessary due to poor cover rules. And they're supposedly fixing cover, so it may happen that you don't need to change a core mechanic that has existed in every version of the game for as long as it has existed in order to achieve the desired effect.

There we go; off my soapbox, sorry about that.

Now I saw a lot of people suggesting things that we already know are being worked on, which also influences the form my wish list will take. Here it is:

I hope that the changes advertised achieve the desired effects without unintended consequences, and that these changes bring satisfaction to those who give enough change to those who wanted change without compromising the game that others love, and that GW never, ever loses the drive to improve by expanding rather than contracting the available options.

It's only one wish, but it's a doozy!

I want fire arcs/armour facings back, the ability to put anything in Reserves for any reason, the "combat airspace" mechanic from 7e so flyers can hop out/in instead of needing to fly a rectangle around the middle of the board. I want Sweeping Advances back to make Morale make a difference and let melee units do something without having to physically roll enough dice to kill every single model in front of them. I want stratagems not to be such a powerful mechanic that they force us to build our armies entirely around efficient use of the card game. I want an overhaul to psykers that stops punishing us for taking multiple psykers. I want all Mortal Wounds to go die in a fire. I want points costs attached to Relics. I want anti-aircraft weapons to be a thing rather than just shooting down planes with flamers and battle cannons. I want to not be punished for liking FW models better than GW models. I want the endless proliferation of random characters to stop and the game to be about my army rather than GW's named characters.

I'm not likely to get any of this, but I thought I'd ask.

I want a game where there is more than one way of fighting, where it's not just 'be a space marine or suck'.

Necrons are basically xenos space marines and therefore are well rewarded by the game as it's built around the same features they have.


But armies that use speed to avoid damage, rather than just high toughness and armour, have been shafted and are continuing to be further shafted.

Loss of initiative meant that soft units like nids and eldar lost their defence against enemy attacks. Now they just die MORE.

Lack of modifiers to hit based on speed means that fast units can't use their speed as defence, so they just die more.


The game is just narrowing in design space so much that if you don't have good T and Sv then you have nothing.

D10 for the wound roll

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Corsairs get any type of support. lol.

Would be nice, but first we need to make sure the chud who did the PA kabal rules isnt allowed to help

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Corsairs get any type of support. lol.

Would be nice, but first we need to make sure the chud who did the PA kabal rules isnt allowed to help

Amen to that.

There are plenty of changes I could think of, but if I am conservative and just pick three, they would be:

- Better entry/exit from combat. Unreliable/random charges are a pain and just don't make sense. A charge should always be a minimum of the unit's movement value at the very least. Falling back from combat is abhorrent as well. Not being able to shoot or charge (which many units can ignore) is not enough of a penalty; it's too easy to just fall back from combat and then leave that combat unit stood still with their dicks or tits in their hands as the whole enemy army pounds them. It could be something simple like to fall back suffer D6 mortal wounds and the attacking unit gets +1 to their save as they're counted as being in cover (due to the army not wanting to hit their falling back allies). Possibly even a change to overwatch - you can shoot or fire overwatch but you don't get both - or a change to WHEN fallback happens. So in this case, you would only be able to fall back in the next melee phase (before attacks) in your turn rather than your next movement phase.

- The return of WSvsWS/Initiative (possibly a combination of the pair). A 50yo Space Marine captain hitting a supposed immortal combat master that's millennia old like a bloodthirster on a 2+? Get outta town!

- Simplified cover rules.

Bonus: Turn all D3s into 2s and turn all D6s into 3+D3 in regards to weapon shots, damage and stat rolls (such as possessed attacks). The only place i'd be fine with it is when determining mortal wounds because mortal wounds are so potent that a bit of randomness is a reasonable trade off.

I agree something needs to be sorted out with morale (as in, some units need to be fearless again - ie Cult Troops and daemons and others need to not be as fearless) and I think there needs to be clarification with the character targeting that means the closest enemy unit needs to be visible. Overall though, I think combat mechanics need the most attention.

the_scotsman wrote:
Based on the "9 things" video, what would be your ideal set of rules changes from 8th to 9th? Keep in mind that 9th is not a full overhaul rules change so all current codexes etc will need to remain legal.

Personally, I'd love to see stuff like this:

-Weapons with random numbers of shots score max hits against units with 15 models or more. Additionally, weapons that hit automatically score max hits against units that receive a cover save.

-Obscurement: When all models targeted by a shooting attack are at least partially obscured by terrain or models not in the firing unit, that attack receives -1 to hit

-Ambush: new movement phase option. A unit chosen to Ambush moves twice its Mv stat, but must end the move within 1" of at least one enemy model. A unit that performed an Ambush move does not count as having charged in the Fight phase. (A new method for close combat units to close with the enemy more reliably than a Charge, avoid overwatch, but comes with the drawback of removing your ability to shoot the unit you Ambushed and your unit does not count as having charged. I can see some increase in the reliability of close combat being extremely necessary with the removal of preventing vehicles from being able to shoot.)

-Take Cover: In the shooting phase, units may be selected to Take Cover. Units that Take Cover may not be selected to shoot or charge in the charge phase, but receive an additional +1 to their save rolls if they receive cover from a shooting attack, and always count as Obscured

-New Ruins rules: Apply to Sector Imperialis and Sector Mechanicus structures. Any INFANTRY, BEAST, SWARM, CAVALRY or BIKER unit that ends its turn wholly within 3" of a structure designated as a ruin may embark upon the ruin. Remove the unit from the board and set them up wholly on or within the ruin. Any number of units controlled by the same player may embark in a ruin as long as all models can fit on or within the structure. Units embarked in a ruin receive Cover.

Line of sight to and from units embarked within a ruin is drawn to the ruin structure. If multiple units are embarked within a ruin, the player who controls those units determines which units are closest when an enemy unit is selected to make a shooting or psychic attack targeting the ruin.

While within a ruin, any ability that a model has with a range value affects all models within the ruin, but no models outside the ruin.

When enemy units declare a charge against a unit within a ruin, they must declare their charge against all units currently within the ruin. Models within 1" of the ruin structure or within 1" of a friendly model within 1" of the ruin structure may make their close combat attacks against any unit within the ruin.

When a unit within a ruin is selected to move in the movement phase, they must first disembark from the ruin. Set the unit up with all models within 1" of the ruin structure. Any models that cannot be placed are destroyed. A unit that disembarks from a ruin structure that has enemy models within 1" counts as having Fallen Back.

I didn't read the post title and got really excited reading your post. These would be great changes.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I want fire arcs/armour facings back, the ability to put anything in Reserves for any reason, the "combat airspace" mechanic from 7e so flyers can hop out/in instead of needing to fly a rectangle around the middle of the board. I want Sweeping Advances back to make Morale make a difference and let melee units do something without having to physically roll enough dice to kill every single model in front of them. I want stratagems not to be such a powerful mechanic that they force us to build our armies entirely around efficient use of the card game. I want an overhaul to psykers that stops punishing us for taking multiple psykers. I want all Mortal Wounds to go die in a fire. I want points costs attached to Relics. I want anti-aircraft weapons to be a thing rather than just shooting down planes with flamers and battle cannons. I want to not be punished for liking FW models better than GW models. I want the endless proliferation of random characters to stop and the game to be about my army rather than GW's named characters.

I'm not likely to get any of this, but I thought I'd ask.

Well, we know you're getting "Anything in reserves" and "planes do strafing runs" at least.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Semper wrote:
There are plenty of changes I could think of, but if I am conservative and just pick three, they would be:

- Better entry/exit from combat. Unreliable/random charges are a pain and just don't make sense. A charge should always be a minimum of the unit's movement value at the very least. Falling back from combat is abhorrent as well. Not being able to shoot or charge (which many units can ignore) is not enough of a penalty; it's too easy to just fall back from combat and then leave that combat unit stood still with their dicks or tits in their hands as the whole enemy army pounds them. It could be something simple like to fall back suffer D6 mortal wounds and the attacking unit gets +1 to their save as they're counted as being in cover (due to the army not wanting to hit their falling back allies). Possibly even a change to overwatch - you can shoot or fire overwatch but you don't get both - or a change to WHEN fallback happens. So in this case, you would only be able to fall back in the next melee phase (before attacks) in your turn rather than your next movement phase.

- The return of WSvsWS/Initiative (possibly a combination of the pair). A 50yo Space Marine captain hitting a supposed immortal combat master that's millennia old like a bloodthirster on a 2+? Get outta town!

- Simplified cover rules.

Bonus: Turn all D3s into 2s and turn all D6s into 3+D3 in regards to weapon shots, damage and stat rolls (such as possessed attacks). The only place i'd be fine with it is when determining mortal wounds because mortal wounds are so potent that a bit of randomness is a reasonable trade off.

I agree something needs to be sorted out with morale (as in, some units need to be fearless again - ie Cult Troops and daemons and others need to not be as fearless) and I think there needs to be clarification with the character targeting that means the closest enemy unit needs to be visible. Overall though, I think combat mechanics need the most attention.

Hmmmmmmmmm....this has me thinking. Overwriting charge rolls would be next to impossible, too many unit datasheets refer to them.

But if charge rolls were "Mv+d6" then they could still technically be "charge rolls" and only a couple of rules on a couple stratagems would need to be rewritten...

Bikes and Jump Infantry charging 13-18"? I think that is a perfectly horrible idea.

At best they could tack on is a rule that the minimum charge distance is some proportion of your Move or Change the Charge distance to something like 4+d6".

 alextroy wrote:
Bikes and Jump Infantry charging 13-18"? I think that is a perfectly horrible idea.

At best they could tack on is a rule that the minimum charge distance is some proportion of your Move or Change the Charge distance to something like 4+d6".

*me, getting shot from 80" away across the diagonal corner through a tiny keyhole in one building, a window in another, and through the leaves of a shrubbery*
"Yeah, it'd be a shame if melee armies could hit the enemy too quickly. Wouldn't want alpha strikes to be a thing."

1: bolt action style activation.
2: cover being useful.
3: no random shots or damage.
4: vehicle fire arcs.
5: vehicle armour values that go higher than 14.

Not that it matters.

My dream change would be for the customer base to actually wisen up and vote with their wallets for a change. I swear, people are starting wishlist threads looking FORWARD to replacing everything rule based. It's like the Apple customer base, but ten times worse...

remove rolling dice for the sake of rolling dice.

remove neatly all 're-roll' mechanics, replace with a +/- dice modifier

either remove the 'variable ground scale' or remove 'TLoS' to avoid shooting round corners, also bring in sensible terrain rules, this is the 9th edition, they have by now tried just about every version of terrain that doesn't work - find another game where it works and copy it

seriously cut down the stratagem stuff, give units the abilities they get from them as a base and have the stratagems focus on things commanders can influence, not unit training if they remember how to fight in a vicious way today or not

add a decent reaction fie mechanic to the game, not just overwatch as it is now - e.g. setting overwatch is something you do in your shooting phase instead of shooting (and let stuff start on overwatch), then able to fire during the enemy movement phase at stuff that charges or just stuff that moves

bring in a stat for unit size, used as a "to hit" modifier, normal infantry being "0", small stuff or exceptionally well camouflaged maybe '-1', but critically vehicles getting +1, +2 etc. combine this with a weapon 'accuracy' stat so anti tank guns struggle to hit infantry but can hit larger stuff nicely.

remove 'a six can hurt anything!', replace with the old system for a 6 then a four counting as '7', 6 then 5 as an '8' etc, and open up the toughness so small arms can now hardly miss a battle tank but will seriously struggle to hurt it

allow close in defensive weapons to fire in combat (looks like we are getting this)

allow actual armoured fighting vehicles to drive off from enemy infantry - would have this instead of melee attacks (looks like the dive off bit is happening)

decide what scale the game is meant to be and focus on it, if this is meant to be a massive combat game with knights (multiple) and similar, stop caring if guardsman #453 has a pistol or not in army building, thats for smaller squad/platoon sized games