Switch Theme:

And now for today's dose of salt  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






I mean, they've basically got Melta Guns/Multimeltas without the drawbacks of either (short range, Heavy respectively), and then they get to shoot them twice because… Reasons? Really not helping my distaste for everything Primaris, these. Really starting to lean towards just not being arsed playing against them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/29 15:34:40


 
   
Made in gb
Bounding Dark Angels Assault Marine





ERJAK wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Either the point cost isn't in line with the power level, or these things need a huge nerf.


The ONLY thing I can think of is that they NEED to come in from reserves as there is no cheap transport to get them in range. But 1 CP isn't really addressing the issue.


They can run and shoot on a 44" board with a 24" gun. What aren't they gonna be in range of?


What are they going to have line of sight to? Think that's the better question here. Ranges in 40k are too long anyhow, this just doubles down on that.

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





ERJAK wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Either the point cost isn't in line with the power level, or these things need a huge nerf.


The ONLY thing I can think of is that they NEED to come in from reserves as there is no cheap transport to get them in range. But 1 CP isn't really addressing the issue.


They can run and shoot on a 44" board with a 24" gun. What aren't they gonna be in range of?


Depends on terrain, but not much!

   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





bananathug wrote:
Between the bikes and these obvious OP melta marines (anyone theory craft what they can do as salies) GW is really trying to make sure this box sells.

Marines had issues with t8 armor and these guys are a solution but marines just can't be everyone else +1 (but cheaper). I like trying to theorycraft around marines terribly inefficient anti-armor but these guys are just straight up auto include.

The cash grab is painfully obvious and things are not looking good for the newly "most play tested version ever." There's still a lot to see and we don't know what is happening with the rest of the game but the slow leak is not inspiring any confidence in this not being marines are op v. 2...


Well when you have pro marine playtesters it doesn't mean it wasn't playtested a lot. Just means they playtested lot to make sure marine gunlines stay top dog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
4663
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in at
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Do GW need to cash grab with Marines though? They could be the worst unit in the game's history and if it has Primaris on the cover it would probably outsell the most OP Xenos unit ever conceived.

   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




The Eradicators would be *almost* ok if they didn't have the shoot twice rule - who really thinks they will *ever* split fire with that rule in effect?

I would have been much happier with them if they had gone with what I *thought* was the worst case scenario - 18" Rapid Fire 1 Melta...

WTAF are GW smoking if they think this unit is in any way balanced?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




They actually will cost less than a Dev with a Multi-Melta.
But get +1T +2W +1A assualt vrs heavy and 6 multi melta if you shoot 3 multimeta at one unit but indomitous box isn't about power creep
   
Made in pt
Loyal Necron Lychguard




Lisbon, Portugal

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why isn't their special rule called "Total Eradication"?


I'd rather "Total Annihilation", way more strategic!

AI & BFG:
40k:
SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in fr
Been Around the Block




And the bodyguard rule is yet again a better (should i say, perfect?) version of whatever you can find in other armies (which is mostly intercept only 1 wound on 2+)
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Good thing melta is still awful in the 8/9th paradigm. They had to go full Leman Russ on these models and they are still barely usable. They have the vanquisher problem. Shooting twice with a terrible gun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ice_can wrote:
They actually will cost less than a Dev with a Multi-Melta.
But get +1T +2W +1A assualt vrs heavy and 6 multi melta if you shoot 3 multimeta at one unit but indomitous box isn't about power creep


Multimelta devs are way overcosted, though. These things are at least adequate. Not great, but usuable.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/29 15:58:22


 
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





Fayetteville

And Timmeh raised the Eradicator model up on high, saying, ‘O GW, bless this thy melta rifle, that with it thou mayst melt thine enemies to slag, in thy mercy.’ And GW did grin. And theTimmehs did feast upon the lambs and sloths, and carp and anchovies, and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit-bats. And GW spake, saying, ‘First shalt thou select a target. Then for each melta rifle shalt thou count to two dice, no more, no less. Two shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be two. Three shalt thou not count, neither count thou one, excepting that thou then proceed to two. Four is right out. Once the number two, being the second number, be reached, for each Eradicator then rollest thou thy holy melta rifle dice on the table. Thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.

The Imperial Navy, A Galatic Force for Good. 
   
Made in gb
Numberless Necron Warrior




UK

The thing is you could "balance" this unit by making them really expensive, but it doesn't change the core design issue with them being fundamentally poorly thought out and lacking any actual weakness in a game setting. A long range melta that is also assault is kind of bad enough, but then the unit can shoot twice too? It just leaves a poor taste in your mouth, even if it was 300 points for the unit as a whole.

I said this with the bikes, but these new Primaris units can't just be what they appear to be. They have this need to add on extra rules (to an army that is already drowning in special rules) and it just makes everything else in the game look bland in comparison. Gravis-armoured Marines with long meltas are a fine conceptual unit, just like Primaris riding bikes and they don't need any extra special rules.... but they've been given them.

It makes you wonder why Hellblasters and Intercessors don't have anything similar, or have I just drawn the attention of the rules designers and now Hellblasters get a re-roll wounds of 1 rule in 9th?!
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




This unit is average at best. I don't see the problem.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/29 16:05:13


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Martel732 wrote:
Good thing melta is still awful in the 8/9th paradigm. They had to go full Leman Russ on these models and they are still barely usable. They have the vanquisher problem. Shooting twice with a terrible gun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ice_can wrote:
They actually will cost less than a Dev with a Multi-Melta.
But get +1T +2W +1A assualt vrs heavy and 6 multi melta if you shoot 3 multimeta at one unit but indomitous box isn't about power creep


Multimelta devs are way overcosted, though. These things are at least adequate. Not great, but usuable.

These 3 lads at under 100 points will reliably toast anything you point them at as with gravis armour they are going to be part of that agressor reroll castle. These things poop all over everyone else comparison units to a level of not even funny.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

Martel732 wrote:
Not great, but usuable.


Seriously? You want to give some examples of ~100pt AT units with comparable firepower?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Martel732 wrote:
This unit is average at best. I don't problem.


And that, is why you fail.

 catbarf wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Not great, but usuable.


Seriously? You want to give some examples of ~100pt AT units with comparable firepower?


He cant, because in the Martel-verse, marines are functionally inferior to everything.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/29 16:05:19


 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Ice_can wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Good thing melta is still awful in the 8/9th paradigm. They had to go full Leman Russ on these models and they are still barely usable. They have the vanquisher problem. Shooting twice with a terrible gun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ice_can wrote:
They actually will cost less than a Dev with a Multi-Melta.
But get +1T +2W +1A assualt vrs heavy and 6 multi melta if you shoot 3 multimeta at one unit but indomitous box isn't about power creep


Multimelta devs are way overcosted, though. These things are at least adequate. Not great, but usuable.

These 3 lads at under 100 points will reliably toast anything you point them at as with gravis armour they are going to be part of that agressor reroll castle. These things poop all over everyone else comparison units to a level of not even funny.


Do we know the points cost? I don't see one.
   
Made in ca
Fully-charged Electropriest






Martel732 wrote:
This unit is average at best. I don't problem.


the problem is when you compare them to fire dragons and see the power difference.

Them being in gravis armor is too much honestly

Admech 5000
Drukhari 4000
2500
500
Imperial knights 1200

 
   
Made in us
Novice Knight Errant Pilot





This may be indicating that melta is going to go way down in price across the board, befitting it's low performance.
If this means fusion pistols are 1-2 points and like multi-meltas are ~10 I don't think these guys are really that overcosted.
Please, GW, Please give me 20point multi-melta retributors! With Argent Shroud and cherubs they'd be like a cheaper, weaker, more faithful version of these guys!
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
This unit is average at best. I don't problem.


the problem is when you compare them to fire dragons and see the power difference.

Them being in gravis armor is too much honestly


Fire dragons are terrible, though. Why compare to them? Compare to a unit people actually use.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rihgu wrote:
This may be indicating that melta is going to go way down in price across the board, befitting it's low performance.
If this means fusion pistols are 1-2 points and like multi-meltas are ~10 I don't think these guys are really that overcosted.
Please, GW, Please give me 20point multi-melta retributors! With Argent Shroud and cherubs they'd be like a cheaper, weaker, more faithful version of these guys!


That would be appropriate with how gakky melta is now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/29 16:07:12


 
   
Made in ca
Fully-charged Electropriest






Martel732 wrote:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
This unit is average at best. I don't problem.


the problem is when you compare them to fire dragons and see the power difference.

Them being in gravis armor is too much honestly


Fire dragons are terrible, though. Why compare to them? Compare to a unit people actually use.


im comparing them to the unit that resembles them the most.

Admech 5000
Drukhari 4000
2500
500
Imperial knights 1200

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Martel732 wrote:


Fire dragons are terrible, though. Why compare to them? Compare to a unit people actually use.


Removed - Rule #1 please

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/29 16:29:28


 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Removed - BrookM


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
This unit is average at best. I don't problem.


the problem is when you compare them to fire dragons and see the power difference.

Them being in gravis armor is too much honestly


Fire dragons are terrible, though. Why compare to them? Compare to a unit people actually use.


im comparing them to the unit that resembles them the most.


A unit that has clearly been passed by in the game, though.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/29 16:31:05


 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





"here at Games Workshop, I, James Workshop, got some really great feedback that I am just now receiving about 7th edition, and I have really taken it into consideration designing 9th.

The feedback had something to do with the 7th edition eldar codex, one of my favorites it was super great. I didn't listen to a lot of it, but the feedback said something about eldar units, and the number of special rules they got. I figured it was probably saying that the eldar didn't get enough special rules, so I have brought that into 9th with the new marines.

People didn't like that Eldar Fire Dragons got +1 to the damage table on their melta guns, so I made marines with double shooting melta guns. People also didn't seem to like that eldar scatterbikes didn't get nearly as many shots when they were in melee, so that's been corrected with the new primaris outriders. The big complaint with dark reapers is that you had to choose between different shot profiles and they weren't flying around on jetpacks, so Suppressors should really handle that. And I do believe the problem with the bladestorm ability on dire avengers was that it couldn't be done every turn, so I strapped three dire avengers together and called it an aggressor."
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Martel732 wrote:


Do we know the points cost? I don't see one.


Did we swap bodies or something?

Yes, no points. It's possible the points could be higher than the PL indicates. But this is enough for me to sit on my hands and wait to see the points rather than buying the box straight up.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Martel732 wrote:

Just make your point so I can disagree.


A unit that has clearly been passed by in the game, though.


The fact that you're celebrating the obsolescence of a unit, while simultaneously complaining about the inferiority of the unit that caused said obsolescence, is delicious.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

Martel732 wrote:
A unit that has clearly been passed by in the game, though.


Aaaaaaaaaannnd thaaatt mmeaaannss theeyyy shoouullldd beee fiixxeedd...

GW should be teasing the rules for improved meltas, if they did improve them. Because right now, all this says is "Guys, we found the fix to meltas, and only SM get it, because the other people are NPCs." Which isn't a good look.

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Okay, it's not just me.

These are obscene. T5, 3 wounds, maybe around 33 ppm, and can double shoot melta guns with all of the marine bonuses?

Like why? Compare these to fire dragons and the like and this is beyond confusing...
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

Rihgu wrote:
This may be indicating that melta is going to go way down in price across the board, befitting it's low performance.
If this means fusion pistols are 1-2 points and like multi-meltas are ~10 I don't think these guys are really that overcosted.
Please, GW, Please give me 20point multi-melta retributors! With Argent Shroud and cherubs they'd be like a cheaper, weaker, more faithful version of these guys!


Consider a Hellblaster with Assault Incinerator. Comparable PL.
-Increase the AP.
-Double the damage.
-Remove Gets Hot.
-Change the guy carrying it from T4/W2 to T5/W3.

Voila, you've made an Eradicator. These guys don't just make melta troops look like chumps- if they release at ~100pts, they'll be the most effective AT troops in the game, bar none. They're not just powerful in comparison to melta.
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Martel732 wrote:
This unit is average at best. I don't see the problem.


That's because you're not very good at 40k. Or math.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/29 16:15:26


2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: