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Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User






My gripe with all the releases of books is that they're constantly filled with spelling and grammar errors, which is extra shocking considering how few words are actually contained in the books, and how much of the fluff is simply repeated verbatim from previous sources. It makes me embarrassed to own them because they are rather poor pieces of literature.

As well the font choices and stylizing on the pages are incorrectly sized/dimensions It looks pretty amateur, most Latex users I know would be shocked to see those design flaws...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/26 14:05:29


 
   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






It really irritates me that they're releasing another marine codex so soon after the last one. Makes me want to make a Xenos army my primary just because I'll be guaranteed to have fewer codex releases and lower cost for army upkeep.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 aphyon wrote:

Yep and now the sad defiler isn't even a thing anymore
It's gone?! F that, I have four of them. :/

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/26 15:03:01


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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 Insectum7 wrote:
It really irritates me that they're releasing another marine codex so soon after the last one. Makes me want to make a Xenos army my primary just because I'll be guaranteed to have fewer codex releases and lower cost for army upkeep.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 aphyon wrote:

Yep and now the sad defiler isn't even a thing anymore
It's gone?! F that, I have four of them. :/


Considering that its cost is in the CA, defilers are still denitely in.
   
Made in us
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Spoletta wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
It really irritates me that they're releasing another marine codex so soon after the last one. Makes me want to make a Xenos army my primary just because I'll be guaranteed to have fewer codex releases and lower cost for army upkeep.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 aphyon wrote:

Yep and now the sad defiler isn't even a thing anymore
It's gone?! F that, I have four of them. :/


Considering that its cost is in the CA, defilers are still denitely in.
I thought so, but is it gone from the Chaos v2 book?

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




At the risk of beating a dead horse, if GW got smart and just started releasing its rules free (or very close to free in online format) this is another issue that would go away.

They don't even make much money off books. Why they insist on using such an out-of-date model that either leads people to piracy or not buying the miniatures that actually power their profits, I do not understand.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Scheming Archon





Between the sacred silence and sleep.

yukishiro1 wrote:
At the risk of beating a dead horse, if GW got smart and just started releasing its rules free (or very close to free in online format) this is another issue that would go away.

They don't even make much money off books. Why they insist on using such an out-of-date model that either leads people to piracy or not buying the miniatures that actually power their profits, I do not understand.


It's interesting.

I find Forgeworld particularly weird and jarring. The idea that, having paid a bundle of cash for a model to supplement your army (for which you have a codex), you don't actually get it's rules. Nope, for that you then need to buy the corresponding index book as well, packed with datasheets, likely of no use or relevance to you.

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It was going to be a fully playtested and well designed Cdoex i might be more excited but given the shockingly bad mess they have made of points and the App, plus the claims that playtesters were just ignored means this is going to be hugely overpowered or underpowered or likely a turgid mess of both.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

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A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





washington state USA

 Insectum7 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
It really irritates me that they're releasing another marine codex so soon after the last one. Makes me want to make a Xenos army my primary just because I'll be guaranteed to have fewer codex releases and lower cost for army upkeep.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 aphyon wrote:

Yep and now the sad defiler isn't even a thing anymore
It's gone?! F that, I have four of them. :/


Considering that its cost is in the CA, defilers are still denitely in.
I thought so, but is it gone from the Chaos v2 book?


I should have been clearer, i mean i don't see them being used much, in fact i have not seen them on the shelf or on the table in literally years at the FLGS . most players are hot on things like the maulerfiend, forgefiend and helldrake in the last couple editions.

 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

 harlokin wrote:

It's interesting.

I find Forgeworld particularly weird and jarring. The idea that, having paid a bundle of cash for a model to supplement your army (for which you have a codex), you don't actually get it's rules. Nope, for that you then need to buy the corresponding index book as well, packed with datasheets, likely of no use or relevance to you.

You think it's bad now?

You should have seen the days of having to buy a huge campaign book.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Sunny Side Up wrote:
Also, B), the Marine Codex 2.0 is probably the worst, most broken Codex published for the game in at least 20 years, if not ever. The sooner it's gone, the better


Point of order - was it the core SM2 book that was the problem, or the slew of supplements? Codex-only Iron Hands, for example, would appear to be nowhere near as bust as Supplement IH.

And for personal experience, the 3.5 Chaos 'dex still takes that award, though (given I wasn't playing during those editions) Eldar or Tau from 6th or 7th ed might be up there too.

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 Sim-Life wrote:


I have to say though I'm really not a fan of GWs opposite approach to how they handle releases now. Remember when they'd release a codex with model entries that didn't exists, then sometime make the model later? This whole release an incomplete codex then release stuff not in the codex is much worse but no one seems to mind.


Thank the chapter house and other alternative makers

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
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Made in us
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 aphyon wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
It really irritates me that they're releasing another marine codex so soon after the last one. Makes me want to make a Xenos army my primary just because I'll be guaranteed to have fewer codex releases and lower cost for army upkeep.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 aphyon wrote:

Yep and now the sad defiler isn't even a thing anymore
It's gone?! F that, I have four of them. :/


Considering that its cost is in the CA, defilers are still denitely in.
I thought so, but is it gone from the Chaos v2 book?


I should have been clearer, i mean i don't see them being used much, in fact i have not seen them on the shelf or on the table in literally years at the FLGS . most players are hot on things like the maulerfiend, forgefiend and helldrake in the last couple editions.
False alarm then. Carry on.

I used 3 defilers in my Black Legion army at the start of 8th. With Abaddons reroll bubble they were pretty decent.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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tneva82 wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:


I have to say though I'm really not a fan of GWs opposite approach to how they handle releases now. Remember when they'd release a codex with model entries that didn't exists, then sometime make the model later? This whole release an incomplete codex then release stuff not in the codex is much worse but no one seems to mind.


Thank the chapter house and other alternative makers


That's not really the case though as we know GW has at least a 2 year production cycle for any given product from the Sisters release, probably more if its not a prioritised project. So if they release a codex then six month later preview a new model there's an overlap in production, which means GW knowingly held back a unit from the codex that could have been included, but they decided against it to flog another book later on.

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







tneva82 wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:


I have to say though I'm really not a fan of GWs opposite approach to how they handle releases now. Remember when they'd release a codex with model entries that didn't exists, then sometime make the model later? This whole release an incomplete codex then release stuff not in the codex is much worse but no one seems to mind.


Thank the chapter house and other alternative makers


Feth that for a game of soldiers.

Blame GW having an incompetent Head of IP, an arguably over-zealous legal team, and wanting to grab stuff that didn't belong to them. Once they got their asses handed to them in court - which they did - they then massively over-reacted in a manner which has harmed the consumer's experience of their products. 95-99% of Chapterhouse's products required the purchase of a GW kit to use - and, in most cases, GW wasn't producing a directly comparable product.

They could easily have competed with these smaller manufacturers, providing small plastic or resin sprues of official shoulder pads or weapons at a cheaper price point, but instead they conceded defeat in the market and went the legal route instead. I imagine most buyers would've gone an official route had it been a, available; and b, priced sensibly, but rather than compete, GW pushed firms that had spotted a gap in the market out of business via legal muscle.

3rd party part production is a time-honoured system - look at most motor vehicles, for example. Heck, look at the additional detail kits you can get for plastic tank kits, etc. GW tried to push a narrative of them producing boutique pieces of art, rather than the reality of them mass-producing metal/resin/plastic components for a game.

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GW wants to be Apple, not IBM.
   
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Even Apple licenses.
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




Please do not advocate piracy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/26 20:10:15


CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
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Their profit margin on rulebooks is way, way lower than on miniatures. The problem is they insist on sticking to this stupid print model that doesn't make any economic sense, not per se that the books are unreasonably expensive for what they are. Printing glossy color books is very expensive.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





yukishiro1 wrote:
Even Apple licenses.


sure they do, and So does GW, but Apple doesn't lisence third party apple hardware. nor does GW lisence third party minis.

whatever the validity of the CH lawsuit, the fact is, GW was publishing rules with no models, and CH produced models. it was found that CH could legally do this, and in fact would actually own the rights to the name of the unit in mini form if they made ti first, GW took the obvious step of not producing rules for something that lacked a model.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/26 19:36:41


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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'Jack Scrapper





Austria

BrianDavion wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
Even Apple licenses.

sure they do, and So does GW, but Apple doesn't lisence third party apple hardware. nor does GW lisence third party minis.

but I can buy 3rd party Apple Add-Ons like protective cases specially if Apple would not make some if their own, something that GW tries to shut down even if they don't make it

blaming the 3rd party here that GW is incompetent makes no sense

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
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The Void

This gets complained about all the time, but so do lots of other things. For every person complaining that Marines get too many codex updates, there's people complaining that there are new models/units/rules that aren't in the codex and they don't want to carry all these books/FaQs and why doesn't GW consolidate them!

I started playing late 3rd edition, and I remember the years of people complaining about a lack of new content and updates for factions in general. Then we get 8th edition with huge amounts of new content coming out all the time for all the major factions (although more for bigger sellers, obviously), and now people start complaining about having too many books.

People complained for years about how slow FaQ and rule updates were (and good god they were slow), and now we get regular updates and people complain that they're too hard to keep track of and aren't rolled into the Codex immediately.

There are two big problems GW has:
1) They didn't switch to having rules curated in a single digital source 10 years ago. But the reasons they haven't done that are probably complicated, because everyone has always wanted it, and we know their profit off Codices isn't actually that great. Its probably still a dumb reason, but they haven't done it. What they have done is a reasonable business approach within their business model. Overall, this problem is their fault though.

2) The Fanbase are a bunch of whiners who are impossible to please and keep complaining even when they get what they asked for before. GW does a lot of things in a suboptimal manner, and they are bad rules writers. But content release schedule is not a problem. Overall, the problem of a lot of you being impossible to please isn't their fault.

Also, I think its worth noting that after years of Xenos people whining about lack of support, Necrons are suddenly getting one of the largest model wave releases ever, and I don't hear a peep about it from the usual whiners. Of course marines get the most updates and releases, because that's the biggest seller. How much money do you think Necrons were bringing in during 8th in comparison? Not much I'd bet!

Primaris were underperforming for most of 8th when they should have been the leader, so GW beefed them up and released more. That makes sense. Necrons were underperforming for most of 8th too. If you listened to all the complainers, you'd have expected them to get less support due to that. But instead, we see that GW has done a massive investment to expand their range and rules, and placed them front and center for a new edition launch. That's a big deal. They obviously want this faction to be a major part of the hobby again. And if they want it for Necrons, presumably they're going to want it for other Xenos factions with decayed rules and ranges.

Always 1 on the crazed roll. 
   
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3 effing codexes in 4 years is still too many.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
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The Void

 Insectum7 wrote:
3 effing codexes in 4 years is still too many.


Well, they needed the 1st Codex because 8th was a new edition and Primaris had been added.
And they needed the 2nd Codex because Primaris had been weak for all of 8th and marines generally uncompetitive outside early days of Gman Razorback spam.
And they now need the 3rd Codex because there's a huge amount of new units, and all the mid-8th rules to role in, and 9th ed changes.

So no, its not too many. Its the amount they need to keep patching the problems they made for themselves in early 8th. Complaining that its too many is like complaining about having too many patched leaks in your plumbing. Yes, it would have been better if the plumbing had never had leaks in the first place. But it does, so you need all those patches.

The whole problem the whole time has been how poorly conceived 8th edition was, and how they failed to understand how their changes to the rule system would not work with the legacy unit stat lines. Almost all rules complaints from every faction and perspective boil down to this problem in some form. The frenetic release schedule has mostly been to throw bandaids on this problem. And now people complain about the bandaids, while defending the original wound!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/26 20:14:51


Always 1 on the crazed roll. 
   
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The dark hollows of Kentucky

yukishiro1 wrote:
Their profit margin on rulebooks is way, way lower than on miniatures. The problem is they insist on sticking to this stupid print model that doesn't make any economic sense, not per se that the books are unreasonably expensive for what they are. Printing glossy color books is very expensive.

There's nothing stopping them from releasing soft back books instead of hardbacks though. It would be less expensive and make more sense with the current rate of releases. There's no point in paying more for a hardback if it's going to be obsolete within a year or two, requiring you to buy another one if you want to be up to date.
   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






@Dreadnought: BS. They had Chapter Approved to make adjustments and additions as necessary. They could have also included the new units in the supplements as well. There were plenty of ways to get the additions in, but instead they went for a 70$ combination of books, codex and supplement, that they proceeded to make obsolete in a year. It's ridiculous, and there's no way that it was "necessary" as you say.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/26 20:20:36


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in at
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Austria

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
Their profit margin on rulebooks is way, way lower than on miniatures. The problem is they insist on sticking to this stupid print model that doesn't make any economic sense, not per se that the books are unreasonably expensive for what they are. Printing glossy color books is very expensive.

There's nothing stopping them from releasing soft back books instead of hardbacks though. It would be less expensive and make more sense with the current rate of releases. There's no point in paying more for a hardback if it's going to be obsolete within a year or two, requiring you to buy another one if you want to be up to date.


hardback = premium product
softback = cheap gaming aid

GW wants their Codex to be premium products you buy for the fluff and artwork and not a cheap gaming aid you only buy for the rules

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in gb
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 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Also, I think its worth noting that after years of Xenos people whining about lack of support, Necrons are suddenly getting one of the largest model wave releases ever, and I don't hear a peep about it from the usual whiners. Of course marines get the most updates and releases, because that's the biggest seller. How much money do you think Necrons were bringing in during 8th in comparison? Not much I'd bet!


What was the state of the Necron 'dex during 8th? Not good from what I gather.
How many releases did the Necrons get during 8th? I only recall the Slam Dunk Cryptek, plus Szeras alongside Pariah in the last few weeks.
How heavily were Necrons pushed during the edition? Not that much, until we started the build to Indomitus.

Here's the thing - while I can't source it, it's been stated before that the majority of sales for a kit come through in the first few months of release. After that, while you do get long-tail purchases over time, it's nothing near the initial rush. The only real way to influence the long-term purchases is to release an OP 'dex, or a 'dex where the solid units are ones that people may not have purchased in the past - imagine a DE book where Hellions are really good, for example.

If, on the other hand, you release one or two characters, and a mid-to-lower tier Codex, you can't then blame the faction for not selling.

And a big Necron release is a good thing - for Necron players, or people with a passing interesting in Egyptian Terminators. Doesn't do much for an Eldar, Dark Eldar or Tyranid player, which is why tarring all such players with the Xenos brush doesn't help the situation.

2019 Plog - Dysartes Twitches - 2019 Output

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Made in ch
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 kodos wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
Their profit margin on rulebooks is way, way lower than on miniatures. The problem is they insist on sticking to this stupid print model that doesn't make any economic sense, not per se that the books are unreasonably expensive for what they are. Printing glossy color books is very expensive.

There's nothing stopping them from releasing soft back books instead of hardbacks though. It would be less expensive and make more sense with the current rate of releases. There's no point in paying more for a hardback if it's going to be obsolete within a year or two, requiring you to buy another one if you want to be up to date.


hardback = premium product
softback = cheap gaming aid

GW wants their Codex to be premium products you buy for the fluff and artwork and not a cheap gaming aid you only buy for the rules


The many grammatical and other faults certainly don't Make it feel like premium

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/26 21:22:05


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 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
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The dark hollows of Kentucky

 kodos wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
Their profit margin on rulebooks is way, way lower than on miniatures. The problem is they insist on sticking to this stupid print model that doesn't make any economic sense, not per se that the books are unreasonably expensive for what they are. Printing glossy color books is very expensive.

There's nothing stopping them from releasing soft back books instead of hardbacks though. It would be less expensive and make more sense with the current rate of releases. There's no point in paying more for a hardback if it's going to be obsolete within a year or two, requiring you to buy another one if you want to be up to date.


hardback = premium product
softback = cheap gaming aid

GW wants their Codex to be premium products you buy for the fluff and artwork and not a cheap gaming aid you only buy for the rules

And what would prevent them from putting that artwork and fluff into a soft back? It worked in previous editions.

Edit: And as Not Online!!! points out, if they are supposed to be a premium product, they should at least be better proofread, and not require an immediate FAQ for the rules they contain.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/26 21:29:28


 
   
Made in ch
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Because premium is about illusion in most cases , just a shame said premium Illusion instantly shatters when you read the first 10 pages of a dex....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/26 21:28:51


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 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
 
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