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Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Timmy is probably playing with power level, so no CA.

I think you grossly over estimate the willingness of new players to use PA.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in gb
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut




 Insectum7 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Spoiler:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
@Dreadnought: BS. They had Chapter Approved to make adjustments and additions as necessary. They could have also included the new units in the supplements as well. There were plenty of ways to get the additions in, but instead they went for a 70$ combination of books, codex and supplement, that they proceeded to make obsolete in a year. It's ridiculous, and there's no way that it was "necessary" as you say.



And then instead of talking to you, I'd be responding to all the people complaining about rules bloat. And there's actually been more of that the past couple of years than complaints about too many codices. You have demonstrated my point that GW cannot win with the player base overall very well.

Also, whenever people complain about there being so many marine books, there's usually the implication that if GW wasn't releasing marine stuff, they'd be releasing more content for someone else instead. Which is a huge assumption. They expand projects that they think will make them money. If they hadn't been doing Marines, there's a good chance they would have just been doing some other game system instead. It doesn't mean Xenos would have gotten an update sooner.
Where exactly did this rules bloat come from in my scenario? The same number of rules can exist regardless of where you put them. My point stands, 3 books in 4 years remains totally unneccessary.


Timmy: "I'd like to start space marines"
Gw staff: "as they were an early codex, at minimum you'll need the 2017(?) Codex, chapter approved 2019, chapter approved 2020, vigilus defiant, faith and fury and a supplement of your choice"

Yes, that seems a lot less necessary than "buy this new codex". Rules bloat isn't referring to number of actual rules, but the sheer volume of publications there spread across.
Ooorr. . .

1: It's all in the app they just released. Woooooow.
Or
2: One codex, plus a downloadable document with the new units.
Or
3: One codex, plus the rules for new units actually come with the units.

Timmy is probably playing with power level, so no CA. Also "minimum" isn't going to include vigilus defiant, etc. But that should be beside the point anyways because of the app.


To toe that back into reality, why would the new player still prefer all that crap to just having a new book with it all in one place?

It's not currently 1 codex with a pdf, that would take... a new codex.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Umbros wrote:

Whilst I wouldn't want to encourage such a rapid turnaround in codexes under normal circumstances, I'm of the general opinion that this is the right move. I'd rather they do the right thing, rather than the popular thing. I wish they'd also dump the supplements tbh, but there you go.

1. The 2019 codex was a blight upon the game. Obscenely powerful. It needed toning down (which it will receive).

2. Eliminating multiple book requirements.

3. They are now providing digital copies with physical purchases, which will allow for easier ongoing fixes.


I don't know why you are assuming Space marines will be toned down.

Maybe, but maybe not
   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






Dudeface wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Spoiler:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
@Dreadnought: BS. They had Chapter Approved to make adjustments and additions as necessary. They could have also included the new units in the supplements as well. There were plenty of ways to get the additions in, but instead they went for a 70$ combination of books, codex and supplement, that they proceeded to make obsolete in a year. It's ridiculous, and there's no way that it was "necessary" as you say.



And then instead of talking to you, I'd be responding to all the people complaining about rules bloat. And there's actually been more of that the past couple of years than complaints about too many codices. You have demonstrated my point that GW cannot win with the player base overall very well.

Also, whenever people complain about there being so many marine books, there's usually the implication that if GW wasn't releasing marine stuff, they'd be releasing more content for someone else instead. Which is a huge assumption. They expand projects that they think will make them money. If they hadn't been doing Marines, there's a good chance they would have just been doing some other game system instead. It doesn't mean Xenos would have gotten an update sooner.
Where exactly did this rules bloat come from in my scenario? The same number of rules can exist regardless of where you put them. My point stands, 3 books in 4 years remains totally unneccessary.


Timmy: "I'd like to start space marines"
Gw staff: "as they were an early codex, at minimum you'll need the 2017(?) Codex, chapter approved 2019, chapter approved 2020, vigilus defiant, faith and fury and a supplement of your choice"

Yes, that seems a lot less necessary than "buy this new codex". Rules bloat isn't referring to number of actual rules, but the sheer volume of publications there spread across.
Ooorr. . .

1: It's all in the app they just released. Woooooow.
Or
2: One codex, plus a downloadable document with the new units.
Or
3: One codex, plus the rules for new units actually come with the units.

Timmy is probably playing with power level, so no CA. Also "minimum" isn't going to include vigilus defiant, etc. But that should be beside the point anyways because of the app.

To toe that back into reality, why would the new player still prefer all that crap to just having a new book with it all in one place?
Why would a player investing in the hobby prefer that their investment will last a while, as opposed to being faced with the apparent current situation of spending 40$ (plus a 30$ supplement?) a year for the sake of a couple unit additions amounting to a 3% change in content from book to book? Is that your question? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

It's not currently 1 codex with a pdf, that would take... a new codex.
No sure what you're saying. Are you claiming it's impossible to release a PDF that provides the various additions and adjustments to a book that's a few years old?

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut




 Insectum7 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Spoiler:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
@Dreadnought: BS. They had Chapter Approved to make adjustments and additions as necessary. They could have also included the new units in the supplements as well. There were plenty of ways to get the additions in, but instead they went for a 70$ combination of books, codex and supplement, that they proceeded to make obsolete in a year. It's ridiculous, and there's no way that it was "necessary" as you say.



And then instead of talking to you, I'd be responding to all the people complaining about rules bloat. And there's actually been more of that the past couple of years than complaints about too many codices. You have demonstrated my point that GW cannot win with the player base overall very well.

Also, whenever people complain about there being so many marine books, there's usually the implication that if GW wasn't releasing marine stuff, they'd be releasing more content for someone else instead. Which is a huge assumption. They expand projects that they think will make them money. If they hadn't been doing Marines, there's a good chance they would have just been doing some other game system instead. It doesn't mean Xenos would have gotten an update sooner.
Where exactly did this rules bloat come from in my scenario? The same number of rules can exist regardless of where you put them. My point stands, 3 books in 4 years remains totally unneccessary.


Timmy: "I'd like to start space marines"
Gw staff: "as they were an early codex, at minimum you'll need the 2017(?) Codex, chapter approved 2019, chapter approved 2020, vigilus defiant, faith and fury and a supplement of your choice"

Yes, that seems a lot less necessary than "buy this new codex". Rules bloat isn't referring to number of actual rules, but the sheer volume of publications there spread across.
Ooorr. . .

1: It's all in the app they just released. Woooooow.
Or
2: One codex, plus a downloadable document with the new units.
Or
3: One codex, plus the rules for new units actually come with the units.

Timmy is probably playing with power level, so no CA. Also "minimum" isn't going to include vigilus defiant, etc. But that should be beside the point anyways because of the app.

To toe that back into reality, why would the new player still prefer all that crap to just having a new book with it all in one place?
Why would a player investing in the hobby prefer that their investment will last a while, as opposed to being faced with the apparent current situation of spending 40$ (plus a 30$ supplement?) a year for the sake of a couple unit additions amounting to a 3% change in content from book to book? Is that your question? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

It's not currently 1 codex with a pdf, that would take... a new codex.
No sure what you're saying. Are you claiming it's impossible to release a PDF that provides the various additions and adjustments to a book that's a few years old?


As a new marines player (I am as of this week), I'd rather buy a new codex than hunt down 4-5 books for all the rules I want. If I have to buy expansion book A in 12 months that happens to cost the same as a codex for 3% changes (current business practice), I'd rather not have to do that just to maintain longevity.

Regards 1 book and a pdf, well you're currently proposing their PA and vigilus content be re-release for free in pdf format which is unrealistic.

Edit to clarify, I'm not saying they do the right thing now, just that a new codex actually makes sense right now for a couple of reasons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/27 18:30:53


 
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Tycho wrote:
Don't forget the Marines Malevolent. Those guys and the Carcharadons are the only loyalists I give a about. Unless you consider the Ashen Claws loyalists (which I don't), those guys are pretty cool.


But your avatar is a Night Lords Chaos Marine - SURELY, if you're interested in Chaos, you would like the Dark Angels as well? No?

Not sure if you're making a joke about the whole "Dark Angels are really traitors" thing or the history between the Night Lords and the Dark Angels. If it's the former then: . If it's the latter then: .
   
Made in us
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade




Not sure if you're making a joke about the whole "Dark Angels are really traitors" thing or the history between the Night Lords and the Dark Angels. If it's the former then: . If it's the latter then: .


I wish I was that clever, but no - I meant the former. I completely forgot about the other stuff! lol

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






Dudeface wrote:
Spoiler:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
@Dreadnought: BS. They had Chapter Approved to make adjustments and additions as necessary. They could have also included the new units in the supplements as well. There were plenty of ways to get the additions in, but instead they went for a 70$ combination of books, codex and supplement, that they proceeded to make obsolete in a year. It's ridiculous, and there's no way that it was "necessary" as you say.



And then instead of talking to you, I'd be responding to all the people complaining about rules bloat. And there's actually been more of that the past couple of years than complaints about too many codices. You have demonstrated my point that GW cannot win with the player base overall very well.

Also, whenever people complain about there being so many marine books, there's usually the implication that if GW wasn't releasing marine stuff, they'd be releasing more content for someone else instead. Which is a huge assumption. They expand projects that they think will make them money. If they hadn't been doing Marines, there's a good chance they would have just been doing some other game system instead. It doesn't mean Xenos would have gotten an update sooner.
Where exactly did this rules bloat come from in my scenario? The same number of rules can exist regardless of where you put them. My point stands, 3 books in 4 years remains totally unneccessary.


Timmy: "I'd like to start space marines"
Gw staff: "as they were an early codex, at minimum you'll need the 2017(?) Codex, chapter approved 2019, chapter approved 2020, vigilus defiant, faith and fury and a supplement of your choice"

Yes, that seems a lot less necessary than "buy this new codex". Rules bloat isn't referring to number of actual rules, but the sheer volume of publications there spread across.
Ooorr. . .

1: It's all in the app they just released. Woooooow.
Or
2: One codex, plus a downloadable document with the new units.
Or
3: One codex, plus the rules for new units actually come with the units.

Timmy is probably playing with power level, so no CA. Also "minimum" isn't going to include vigilus defiant, etc. But that should be beside the point anyways because of the app.

To toe that back into reality, why would the new player still prefer all that crap to just having a new book with it all in one place?
Why would a player investing in the hobby prefer that their investment will last a while, as opposed to being faced with the apparent current situation of spending 40$ (plus a 30$ supplement?) a year for the sake of a couple unit additions amounting to a 3% change in content from book to book? Is that your question? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

It's not currently 1 codex with a pdf, that would take... a new codex.
No sure what you're saying. Are you claiming it's impossible to release a PDF that provides the various additions and adjustments to a book that's a few years old?


As a new marines player (I am as of this week), I'd rather buy a new codex than hunt down 4-5 books for all the rules I want. If I have to buy expansion book A in 12 months that happens to cost the same as a codex for 3% changes (current business practice), I'd rather not have to do that just to maintain longevity.
Right, if you were an existing player you wouldn't like it either. If you were a new, non-marine player you'd also still be buying a codex and trying to figure our where any other rules were too.

Regards 1 book and a pdf, well you're currently proposing their PA and vigilus content be re-release for free in pdf format which is unrealistic.
Is it though? The rules for new units come in the boxes the units come in already. I could totally see a paradigm where the first release of rules comes at a cost and after some time limit they just put them online for free. As it stands, you can get the app and apparently get ALL the rules for ALL the factions and ALL the expansions for 4.99 a month. They're essentially obsoleting the rules portion of the expansion books with a digital format anyways. You don't even have to release them for free, just charge a couple bucks for an "advanced errata" or something and be done with it. The pattern would be: Buy codex, download/purchase digital companion.

Edit to clarify, I'm not saying they do the right thing now, just that a new codex actually makes sense right now for a couple of reasons.
The "sense" is they know they can do it and it will sell, even if its eggregious.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles




 Insectum7 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Spoiler:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
@Dreadnought: BS. They had Chapter Approved to make adjustments and additions as necessary. They could have also included the new units in the supplements as well. There were plenty of ways to get the additions in, but instead they went for a 70$ combination of books, codex and supplement, that they proceeded to make obsolete in a year. It's ridiculous, and there's no way that it was "necessary" as you say.



And then instead of talking to you, I'd be responding to all the people complaining about rules bloat. And there's actually been more of that the past couple of years than complaints about too many codices. You have demonstrated my point that GW cannot win with the player base overall very well.

Also, whenever people complain about there being so many marine books, there's usually the implication that if GW wasn't releasing marine stuff, they'd be releasing more content for someone else instead. Which is a huge assumption. They expand projects that they think will make them money. If they hadn't been doing Marines, there's a good chance they would have just been doing some other game system instead. It doesn't mean Xenos would have gotten an update sooner.
Where exactly did this rules bloat come from in my scenario? The same number of rules can exist regardless of where you put them. My point stands, 3 books in 4 years remains totally unneccessary.


Timmy: "I'd like to start space marines"
Gw staff: "as they were an early codex, at minimum you'll need the 2017(?) Codex, chapter approved 2019, chapter approved 2020, vigilus defiant, faith and fury and a supplement of your choice"

Yes, that seems a lot less necessary than "buy this new codex". Rules bloat isn't referring to number of actual rules, but the sheer volume of publications there spread across.
Ooorr. . .

1: It's all in the app they just released. Woooooow.
Or
2: One codex, plus a downloadable document with the new units.
Or
3: One codex, plus the rules for new units actually come with the units.

Timmy is probably playing with power level, so no CA. Also "minimum" isn't going to include vigilus defiant, etc. But that should be beside the point anyways because of the app.


Ah yes the app that fell apart day 1 and dropped the ball on every occasion... from the rules, to major proof reading errors of army entries, no army builder... and for a lot of people they don’t even get to explore that because the app just crashes all the time! Plus Timmy has to pay monthly subscription fees... also once his 9e codex launches he’ll have to buy the codex anyways.

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






^Hehe, the app doesn't even startup on my phone. But a bad execution doesn't make it a bad idea.

" once his 9e codex launches he’ll have to buy the codex anyways."

True, but a working app means far less of a reason to immediately release a new codex only a single year after the last one. Timmy wouldn't need a new book for a while.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles




... you mean like they are literally about to (release codex within a year of last codex)? The app will have no effect on the amount of poorly written rule books you’ll have to buy. All it is is a convenient way to charge 5 bucks for a list building app that probably won’t be anywhere on par with BattleScribe, and a convenient centralized place in which to browse all the 50/60 usd rulebooks you bought. Yo dawg I heard you liked paying for rules... so I got you an app that lets you pay for rules after you paid for those rules!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/28 06:50:19


Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






macluvin wrote:
... you mean like they are literally about to (release codex within a year of last codex)?
Ya. I'm saying that instead of releasing another SM book so soon, spend the effort on something else and do any SM updates with errata or other method. That's my whole point.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch





I would rather pay for a new book every 6 months then go back to 5+ year stretch of no updates. CSM did not even get a book in 5th edition (nor did some other armies).

And yes Marines are getting more and more, but there have been some pretty significant releases for other armies including Death guard, Admech, GSC, CSM, Orks, Necrons, and the final creation of plastic sisters just off the top of my head. And all that was all within like a 2 to 2 1/2 year span.

Overall things are much much better now than they were and I would rather have the more books, having to pay yearly to get Chapter Approved or even a codex, then have factions not touched for years on end.
   
Made in us
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade




I would rather pay for a new book every 6 months then go back to 5+ year stretch of no updates. CSM did not even get a book in 5th edition (nor did some other armies).

Overall things are much much better now than they were and I would rather have the more books, having to pay yearly to get Chapter Approved or even a codex, then have factions not touched for years on end.


Agree with these two paragraphs completely. Especially because my favorite armies tend to be the ones that get stuck for multiple editions with the BAD codexes. I do wish we didn't have to pay for the CA points adjustments, but after years of complaining that GW's release cycle was too slow, I'm not about to complain that it's fast now.

And yes Marines are getting more and more, but there have been some pretty significant releases for other armies including Death guard, Admech, GSC, CSM, Orks, Necrons, and the final creation of plastic sisters just off the top of my head. And all that was all within like a 2 to 2 1/2 year span.


This is where we disagree a little. In that same two and a half year span, look at how much marines got, and continue to get. It's becoming utterly ridiculous. Like I said above, I'm happy at how often they're releasing things now, but armies like my DG have now gone a little over 3 years with essentially nothing. Dark Eldar are even worse. The irony here is that even thought the release schedule has hit unprecedented speed, a lot of armies are in the same boat as they were before because all of that new capacity is being put towards an all marines all the time schedule.

Now, that being said, once October hits, if we then go on like a 10 month stretch where marines get nothing but the standard FAQ updates and everyone else finally gets proper attention, I'll happily come back to this thread an apologize. lol But yeah, enough already w/the marine releases ...


Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles




Who needs to buy rules when battlescribe got your back anyways? XD yeah the constant rules updates has its benefits and it’s pains.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/29 03:44:20


Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







macluvin wrote:
Who needs to buy rules when battlescribe got your back anyways? XD yeah the constant rules updates has its benefits and it’s pains.


Anyone with a conscience and without a parrot and/or a peg leg?

If no-one buys the books because they're all using your precious Battlescribe, there is no financial incentive for GW to produce any rules material.

2019 Plog - Dysartes Twitches - 2019 Output

My Twitch stream - going live at 7pm GMT Tuesday & Thursday, 12pm Sunday (work permitting).

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
 
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






 Dysartes wrote:
macluvin wrote:
Who needs to buy rules when battlescribe got your back anyways? XD yeah the constant rules updates has its benefits and it’s pains.


Anyone with a conscience and without a parrot and/or a peg leg?

If no-one buys the books because they're all using your precious Battlescribe, there is no financial incentive for GW to produce any rules material.


When GW produces rules material that isn't invalidated within 2 weeks by a FAQ/Errata to fix all their feth ups I will be happy to pay them for a product that is worth the cover price. Until then why should I give them money for a bunch of paper that has no value?


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Witch Hunter Undercover in a Cult







 Dysartes wrote:
macluvin wrote:
Who needs to buy rules when battlescribe got your back anyways? XD yeah the constant rules updates has its benefits and it’s pains.


Anyone with a conscience and without a parrot and/or a peg leg?

If no-one buys the books because they're all using your precious Battlescribe, there is no financial incentive for GW to produce any rules material.


How many minis game companies in the world use GW's rulebook model? Has FFG stopped writing rules because people can play their games without buying hardback rulebooks or paying subscription fees? Corvus Belli? Privateer Press? Warlord? Mantic?

...Come to think of it there's no financial incentive for me to produce any rules material, but I seem to keep doing it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/29 05:41:03


Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using. 
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles




 AnomanderRake wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
macluvin wrote:
Who needs to buy rules when battlescribe got your back anyways? XD yeah the constant rules updates has its benefits and it’s pains.


Anyone with a conscience and without a parrot and/or a peg leg?

If no-one buys the books because they're all using your precious Battlescribe, there is no financial incentive for GW to produce any rules material.


How many minis game companies in the world use GW's rulebook model? Has FFG stopped writing rules because people can play their games without buying hardback rulebooks or paying subscription fees? Corvus Belli? Privateer Press? Warlord? Mantic?

...Come to think of it there's no financial incentive for me to produce any rules material, but I seem to keep doing it.


I was about to say, GW is one of very few wargaming companies that charges money for rules. Charging me money to fix mistakes in their last set of rules they charged me money for, I feel like is even more piratical.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also while continuing to make more mistakes so they can rip me off again... no thank you.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/29 06:20:27


Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

And yes Marines are getting more and more, but there have been some pretty significant releases for other armies including Death guard, Admech, GSC, CSM, Orks, Necrons, and the final creation of plastic sisters just off the top of my head. And all that was all within like a 2 to 2 1/2 year span.

Don't forget Aeldari with Incubi and Banshees.

But these releases bar Primaris are not significant enough. This is where GW makes money.

It appears that we will see more Primaris releases in the near future, like Landspeeder and Gladiator.

The effect of the concentration on Primaris eventually makes 40k a one-dimensional game.
Imagine if you go with your IH army to a two-day tourney and you play twice vs. IH, once vs. RG, once vs. Sallies and once vs. BT.
Then there will be a threshold when players may turn away from the game.

Former moderator 40kOnline

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Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Dysartes wrote:
macluvin wrote:
Who needs to buy rules when battlescribe got your back anyways? XD yeah the constant rules updates has its benefits and it’s pains.


Anyone with a conscience and without a parrot and/or a peg leg?

If no-one buys the books because they're all using your precious Battlescribe, there is no financial incentive for GW to produce any rules material.


I believe people would be perfectly fine if GW actually delivered for what you pay and not faulty shoddily proofread shovelware printed in china.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 wuestenfux wrote:
And yes Marines are getting more and more, but there have been some pretty significant releases for other armies including Death guard, Admech, GSC, CSM, Orks, Necrons, and the final creation of plastic sisters just off the top of my head. And all that was all within like a 2 to 2 1/2 year span.

Don't forget Aeldari with Incubi and Banshees.

But these releases bar Primaris are not significant enough. This is where GW makes money.

It appears that we will see more Primaris releases in the near future, like Landspeeder and Gladiator.

The effect of the concentration on Primaris eventually makes 40k a one-dimensional game.
Imagine if you go with your IH army to a two-day tourney and you play twice vs. IH, once vs. RG, once vs. Sallies and once vs. BT.
Then there will be a threshold when players may turn away from the game.


Heck at that stage you might aswell play 30k, except that even there non marines have more support

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/07/29 08:19:05


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in se
Doc Brown





I buy the codexes, and the core rules. I used to use battle-scribe to fit a need. still supported GW by buying their products though... now GW wants to fit the need but are , currently, doing a poor job. Honestly, I dont feel a need to support GW further for rules I have already bought physically. The designers should be getting a cut from my purchase already. I paid for the print. and I know there servers arn't worth that monthly fee they want me to pay for their app.

Also, when it comes to the amount of work, care to detail, and just sheer effectiveness of it all, I would much rather financially support the battle-scribe community... unfortunately if there was an easy way to do that the GW lawyers would decend like the emperors angels.

As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.


RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Dysartes wrote:
macluvin wrote:
Who needs to buy rules when battlescribe got your back anyways? XD yeah the constant rules updates has its benefits and it’s pains.


Anyone with a conscience and without a parrot and/or a peg leg?

If no-one buys the books because they're all using your precious Battlescribe, there is no financial incentive for GW to produce any rules material.

Good. They overcharge for tons of mistakes and then have the audacity to try and charge us for documents fixing said mistakes.

feth them. You really wanna go with the "conscience" argument? Look at whom you're deciding to defend with it.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
macluvin wrote:
Who needs to buy rules when battlescribe got your back anyways? XD yeah the constant rules updates has its benefits and it’s pains.


Anyone with a conscience and without a parrot and/or a peg leg?

If no-one buys the books because they're all using your precious Battlescribe, there is no financial incentive for GW to produce any rules material.

Good. They overcharge for tons of mistakes and then have the audacity to try and charge us for documents fixing said mistakes.

feth them. You really wanna go with the "conscience" argument? Look at whom you're deciding to defend with it.


That the company stops making rules and goes bust because they assume people don't want to play?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/29 16:04:50


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Dudeface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
macluvin wrote:
Who needs to buy rules when battlescribe got your back anyways? XD yeah the constant rules updates has its benefits and it’s pains.


Anyone with a conscience and without a parrot and/or a peg leg?

If no-one buys the books because they're all using your precious Battlescribe, there is no financial incentive for GW to produce any rules material.

Good. They overcharge for tons of mistakes and then have the audacity to try and charge us for documents fixing said mistakes.

feth them. You really wanna go with the "conscience" argument? Look at whom you're deciding to defend with it.


That the company stops making rules and goes bust because they assume people don't want to play?

Nope, they're a MODEL company remember? Hell if they stopped producing rules we night get more incentive from other people to make a better rule set (which is a pretty low bar to begin with).

Either they start to care about their product or we ain't paying to play. Simple as that.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
macluvin wrote:
Who needs to buy rules when battlescribe got your back anyways? XD yeah the constant rules updates has its benefits and it’s pains.


Anyone with a conscience and without a parrot and/or a peg leg?

If no-one buys the books because they're all using your precious Battlescribe, there is no financial incentive for GW to produce any rules material.

Good. They overcharge for tons of mistakes and then have the audacity to try and charge us for documents fixing said mistakes.

feth them. You really wanna go with the "conscience" argument? Look at whom you're deciding to defend with it.


That the company stops making rules and goes bust because they assume people don't want to play?

Nope, they're a MODEL company remember? Hell if they stopped producing rules we night get more incentive from other people to make a better rule set (which is a pretty low bar to begin with).

Either they start to care about their product or we ain't paying to play. Simple as that.


If they don't make rules you aren't playing 40k. So either you pay for some rules or find another game which you seem to be allergic to doing.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Dudeface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
macluvin wrote:
Who needs to buy rules when battlescribe got your back anyways? XD yeah the constant rules updates has its benefits and it’s pains.


Anyone with a conscience and without a parrot and/or a peg leg?

If no-one buys the books because they're all using your precious Battlescribe, there is no financial incentive for GW to produce any rules material.

Good. They overcharge for tons of mistakes and then have the audacity to try and charge us for documents fixing said mistakes.

feth them. You really wanna go with the "conscience" argument? Look at whom you're deciding to defend with it.


That the company stops making rules and goes bust because they assume people don't want to play?

Nope, they're a MODEL company remember? Hell if they stopped producing rules we night get more incentive from other people to make a better rule set (which is a pretty low bar to begin with).

Either they start to care about their product or we ain't paying to play. Simple as that.


If they don't make rules you aren't playing 40k. So either you pay for some rules or find another game which you seem to be allergic to doing.

You do realize how hard it is to get another group started. I already tried. However the moment GW stops producing rules we can use the models for better purposes. If anything that would be healthier for them instead of charging for what is almost literal garbage, and quite frankly the fact that the community is more starting to agree with this point of view means they need to actually care.

You basically admit you're okay with a bad product. You don't get change the way you're doing things.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in ie
Preacher of the Emperor





Dudeface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
macluvin wrote:
Who needs to buy rules when battlescribe got your back anyways? XD yeah the constant rules updates has its benefits and it’s pains.


Anyone with a conscience and without a parrot and/or a peg leg?

If no-one buys the books because they're all using your precious Battlescribe, there is no financial incentive for GW to produce any rules material.

Good. They overcharge for tons of mistakes and then have the audacity to try and charge us for documents fixing said mistakes.

feth them. You really wanna go with the "conscience" argument? Look at whom you're deciding to defend with it.


That the company stops making rules and goes bust because they assume people don't want to play?

Nope, they're a MODEL company remember? Hell if they stopped producing rules we night get more incentive from other people to make a better rule set (which is a pretty low bar to begin with).

Either they start to care about their product or we ain't paying to play. Simple as that.


If they don't make rules you aren't playing 40k. So either you pay for some rules or find another game which you seem to be allergic to doing.


I like how you suggest that like getting people to drop hundreds of currency on a new game then maintain it is as simple as just bringing it up. The reason 40k is the monolith that it is is that everyone generally starts the hobby with it, so they're already heavily invested and they pretty much know the game. We had a relatively small group (like 4 people) and we played a bunch of other games for a while, but as soon as the group got bigger (10+) when 8th brought people back in suddenly it was all 40k because it was just easier to organise games of it.

 
   
Made in us
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut




 Sim-Life wrote:
Spoiler:
Dudeface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
macluvin wrote:
Who needs to buy rules when battlescribe got your back anyways? XD yeah the constant rules updates has its benefits and it’s pains.


Anyone with a conscience and without a parrot and/or a peg leg?

If no-one buys the books because they're all using your precious Battlescribe, there is no financial incentive for GW to produce any rules material.

Good. They overcharge for tons of mistakes and then have the audacity to try and charge us for documents fixing said mistakes.

feth them. You really wanna go with the "conscience" argument? Look at whom you're deciding to defend with it.


That the company stops making rules and goes bust because they assume people don't want to play?

Nope, they're a MODEL company remember? Hell if they stopped producing rules we night get more incentive from other people to make a better rule set (which is a pretty low bar to begin with).

Either they start to care about their product or we ain't paying to play. Simple as that.


If they don't make rules you aren't playing 40k. So either you pay for some rules or find another game which you seem to be allergic to doing.


I like how you suggest that like getting people to drop hundreds of currency on a new game then maintain it is as simple as just bringing it up. The reason 40k is the monolith that it is is that everyone generally starts the hobby with it, so they're already heavily invested and they pretty much know the game. We had a relatively small group (like 4 people) and we played a bunch of other games for a while, but as soon as the group got bigger (10+) when 8th brought people back in suddenly it was all 40k because it was just easier to organise games of it.


It isn't, that's my point. If everyone stopped buying GW rules and just stole them online for free like Slay advocates, GW will simply stop making them. Then you need to find another game to play.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/29 16:55:38


 
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






Dudeface wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
Spoiler:
Dudeface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
macluvin wrote:
Who needs to buy rules when battlescribe got your back anyways? XD yeah the constant rules updates has its benefits and it’s pains.


Anyone with a conscience and without a parrot and/or a peg leg?

If no-one buys the books because they're all using your precious Battlescribe, there is no financial incentive for GW to produce any rules material.

Good. They overcharge for tons of mistakes and then have the audacity to try and charge us for documents fixing said mistakes.

feth them. You really wanna go with the "conscience" argument? Look at whom you're deciding to defend with it.


That the company stops making rules and goes bust because they assume people don't want to play?

Nope, they're a MODEL company remember? Hell if they stopped producing rules we night get more incentive from other people to make a better rule set (which is a pretty low bar to begin with).

Either they start to care about their product or we ain't paying to play. Simple as that.


If they don't make rules you aren't playing 40k. So either you pay for some rules or find another game which you seem to be allergic to doing.


I like how you suggest that like getting people to drop hundreds of currency on a new game then maintain it is as simple as just bringing it up. The reason 40k is the monolith that it is is that everyone generally starts the hobby with it, so they're already heavily invested and they pretty much know the game. We had a relatively small group (like 4 people) and we played a bunch of other games for a while, but as soon as the group got bigger (10+) when 8th brought people back in suddenly it was all 40k because it was just easier to organise games of it.


It isn't, that's my point. If everyone stopped buying GW rules and just stole them online for free like Slay advocates, GW will simply stop making them. Then you need to find another game to play.


The rules drive model sales. If GW stops making rules they stop making anything.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
 
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