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Voss wrote:

He already is one. That moment passed long ago.

Right, like how the Necrons were slaves to star gods, or how Ollanius Pius was just a normal guardsman, or how Alpharius was killed by Guilliman, or how there are plenty of Chaos Undivided Daemon Princes besides Belakor. Only wait, that's not true, and all that gak was retconned.

Retcon it.

Beardedragon wrote:


I think we just established that both Lorgar, Mortarion and Magnus has more actual power than Abbadon has.

If any of those wanna be warmaster all they have to do is smash his butt.

So no i dont expect a democracy, but its more akin to the orks. the biggest and strongest can take the position. thats the way i see it, but thats also why it made no sense to me why abbadon was warmaster given hes clearly not the strongest.

Space Marines are not orks. Astartes are far more nuanced (and petty) than orks are. Some of them might respect brute strength, like the apes from the World Eaters, sure, but just as many are far more interested in personal gain and clout than just following da biggest and da strongest. If Lorgar called up someone like Huron, Fabulous Bill or Typhus and demanded their fealty under threat of death, they would just laugh in his face. But what about fealty in exchange for a thousand warships, or a billion slaves or dibs on some ancient xeno artefacts? Now you might have yourself a deal- but that kind of bartering and diplomacy is beyond the capabilities of a Daemon Prince, because it might take centuries to fulfill those conditions and broker those deals.

Say that lorgar can beat abbadon in a fistfight.

So what?

I repeat: SO WHAT?

Being the warmaster isn't about winning a fisfight with one person. It's about strategies, logistics, long term planning, organization, etc.

Even chaos filth knows this.

Maybe a CSM warband or an ork mob can be ran based on who wins a fistfight, but armies don't work that way very well. I'm sure a lot of privates in the army could have wiped the floor with Patton. Rommel was known to be a somewhat small man physically. It didn't matter. They were better leaders.

Abbadon despite the jokes about his ineptness for 10,000 years of fails (Which turned out to be a long term plan worthy of Tzeentch himself) is simply a better long term planner, strategist and leader than any of his rivals.

I think another aspect is that in keeping with the Gothic aesthetic of the setting bloodlines are a really big deal. We see it across multiple books that the traitor legion warbands place enormous stock in being led by one of their own. Leaders like Honsou that overcome that bias are rare.

And Abbadon having been not just one of the Luna Wolves but the last of Horus's inner circle gives him a claim to the title others just don't have.

Each of the traitor primarchs have the loyalty of their legion, but if Lorgar popped out of the warp... well first he'd be swarmed by apostles each trying to get him to approve their personal fanfiction, but after that the other legions would scoff. They're not sons of Lorgar, what do they care?

And how many warbands and groups are out there? Lorgar can't chase down all of them. Even with warp magic there's just not enough hours in the day.

As Matt Swain pointed out Lorgar's got no carrot and the stick isn't enough to unify the legions.

I would also say that Abaddon is focused in what his agenda is. The Daemon Primarchs yes are each individually more powerful than Abaddon but they are not always focused in bringing about an end to the Imperium of Man. They each have other pursuits such as their part in the great game against their rival Chaos powers. They have ascended to a higher purpose so to speak.