Overread wrote:I don't think there's anything wrong with GW making the game so that it can work for random pick-up games and that can work and play to those strengths - things like the warcry setup cards which can let two people who are total strangers get started and playing very quicky, these are great things.
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Yes, bit terms and conditions are attached. Random pick up games with strangers should be viewed as the lowest common denominator. It's pragmatism at all costs. There is so much scope for match up issues, especially combined with 'list building for advantage' and 'blind, independent list building'. Nothing wrong with it, but a lot of things need get sacrificed on the altar to allow said pragmatism to function well. Like striking up a conversation with a stranger in a bar, you need to realise you can only expect so much and there will probably be a lot of friction and areas where there is nothing in common and conversation will just die. Totally different dynamic than me meeting Mrs.deadnight for a few pints.
Nurglitch wrote:Your point about GW requiring active player ownership of the Hobby in order to make it a playable game isn't missed. The thing is that there's a much larger hobby out there called 'board games' where people dig out a box, read the rules, and kinda get on with it just fine.
True, bit board games tend to be smaller, more limited systems. Let's be clear - in some ways this can be a good thing. It allows them.to be more focused. They work fine, but it's easier to work with and balance something where there's two factions, each of four units and a drastically smaller scale and scope.
40k is
vast by comparison. Now if you want to axe 99% of
40k's scale, scope, variety and content to board game it, then that's fine but a lot of people won't exactly be happy.
IronSlug wrote:
On this last subject, I'd also like to point out that genuily loving something doesn't prevent you to criticize it. On the contrary, I actually think that the idea of just accepting everything as delivered to you (because vote with your wallet) is a as much passive and noxious stance that the contrary. Reasonable criticism is not only sane but indispensable to the health of a hobby. And let's be honnest,
GW is criticizable, I mean what human made thing isn't?
I tend to agree. It's fine to criticize, but when everything is a criticism, and when every nod of approval is given grudgingly, with incredible reluxtance, and often snark, that's not healthy. Too often you see black Knights descend like vultures against anyone expressing even the tiniest hint of positivity or DIY, often times more angry or incredulous at the fact that people are doing stuff themselves, or people like me aren't as apoplectic with rage as they are. Tbf the white knights are just as bad.
Like anything, criticism needs to be controlled. Uncontrolled venting ultimately hurts you more. If I turned on my wife and unleashed the equivalent of the criticisms here, or the attitudes and intent behind those criticisms against her, she'd have me out on my arse quicker than I can type this sentence.
IronSlug wrote:
But when your hobby consists mostly of raging and not even directed to the people that really have a say in it, when you still play and every game leaves a sour taste in your mouth, when you almost come to feel
hate for the company producing your hobby like some seems to feel (but then again, internet...). Yeah, you're hurting yourself and the hobby you used to love, so just take a break.
I speak from experience. I've been there. When you hit that point of burnout, walk away, take a break. I've seen too many people struggle past the point of burnout, sometimes for years after the point, and all it did was was hurt them.
IronSlug wrote:
On the other hand I realize it is easy to say for someone for who the hobby is just a side thing. It must be hard when you've invested so much into something, and I don't speak only of money or time, but how much you've invested of
yourself. At some point, it becomes part of who you are, one of the adjective that defines you. Sometime the main one. It's something you spend a lot of time thinking about, that concurs to your self esteem, that you share with the people you hang out with. Sometime the only reason why you hang out with them. So breaking up from that is breaking up from a part of you and a community, and it rarely feels good at first.
Bt passing some time, it (may) get better.
Again, I've experienced this first hand. It's so true. Growing up I was fairly isolated. And definitely the only geek for miles.
40k kind of became an identity for me. It was my hobby, it consumed my thoughts, it was what I marked on my calendar as things to look forward to. I got very wrapped up in it to the point of self destruction. There was other stuff going on (last year in uni etc which piled on the pressure) but it put me into a toxic slump. Worst thing is I fed it myself. Thankfully I recognised it and wanted to change. Which was hard, since so much of who I was was wrapped up in this one 'thing'. I had to walk away from the hobby entirely. I had to walk away from that group of friends, which left me even more isolated. But for all the isolation I was in a healthier place. I found other interests and other friends outside of the gaming bubble. So when the urge to dive back in came back I had a far healthier and more mature approach to it. When gaming is a smaller aspect of your whole, and when you have other interests, you can put it aside more and you find yourself in a position where these things just don't bother you as much. Honestly I'm glad I learned this lesson.
