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Posted By Gotchaye on 06/25/2006 1:00 AM
Concerning deep-striking close-topped Vypers, it seems like they don't really have any choice after making Land Speeders close-topped and deep-strikeable.

After making Land Speeders what?  How is this a change?  They weren't open topped in 3rd Edition either and you could deep strike them if you send them down in Drop Pods (not that anyone did).  Why does GW not "have any choice" in modifying Vypers when they essentially changed nothing to the way Land Speeders deploy?

Having the closed topped Vypers isn't that bad. At least it makes them comparible to the SM landspeeder and they nearly cost the same. The Farseer down to T3? Meh...he shouldn't be in combat anyways. I am soooo glad they brought back Doom. Doom + Guide was such a tasty combo in 2nd Ed. As to the poster who was wondering about AV values between Jetbikes and Marine bikes in 2nd Ed., they were the same. All bikes had the same AV in 2nd. Word, Capt K

I'm guessing the 4+ bike save is because of the turbo boost, and they wouldn't want a 3+ invulnerable Eldar unit. Of course you only get that if you aren't doing anything else, but who knows what makes them make half the decisions they do.

I'm happy to see the Avatar improved, huzzah!

 

 

Oh yeah, the avatar rock now. So glad that they gave him his shooting attack back. Turbo boosting 4+ isn't that bad. They still have their assault move too so they can still Move Shoot Move, or TB if need be. Capt K

Do we have any ideas about what happens to the starcannon?

According to rumors, it' stays the same....although some people are saying it is now heavy 2... Capt K

As to the poster who was wondering about AV values between Jetbikes and Marine bikes in 2nd Ed., they were the same. All bikes had the same AV in 2nd.

While I don't have my old datafaxes handy, I'm about 95% certain that Eldar jetbikes had a front armor of 12, while SM bikes had 10 all around. That's a big deal, as it meant bolters tended to ping off jetbikes' front armor (unless you hit the pilot, of course). Because of this and the vastly superior weaponry, Eldar jetbikes were terrific in 2nd, while SM bikes were complete deathtraps.

Having said that, almost everything in the 2nd ed. Eldar codex was superior to anything the SMs fielded. Players nowadays have no idea what a truly broken codex looks like...

If I recall correctly all bikes had a AV of 11. But my mind is a little foggy..jetbikes actually were less durable since the damage table had lots of crashing happening from what I remember... meh...now my curiousity is wanting me to go and look it up when I get home...I still have all my 2nd edition stuff.. Capt K

The SM bikes also tended to blow up, killing the rider outright. That's why no one in their right mind ever mounted characters on them. If Eldar jetbikes were a little fragile themselves, it didn't really matter. They were just there to zoom up and unload a boatload of shuriken catapult death on your chosen target.

Actually you were a fool if you used an Eldar jetbike as anything other than a guided missle in the 2nd edition. 

Posted By gorgon on 06/26/2006 10:47 AM

Having said that, almost everything in the 2nd ed. Eldar codex was superior to anything the SMs fielded. Players nowadays have no idea what a truly broken codex looks like...

The exact opposite was true for marines.  They were they worst codex ever.  Armor and strength were the most useless stats in 2nd edition and marines paid a premium for those stats.

Actually guardian jetbikes with meltaguns were kick *donkey*in 2nd edition....nothing like doing a drive by attack with a meltagun, blow up a tank, then proceed to shoot the bejebus out of a unit with twinlinked catapults......all in the same shooting phase. Capt K

There were good units in the UM codex, however. Assault cannons, Dreads, Terminators and SM characters were very good. Also, Space Wolves were very good, as their codex was probably the 2nd most broken after Eldar.

One of the real killers for generic SMs was the inflexibility of their tactical squads, combined with the way VPs worked. Even when you split the 10-man squads into two combat squads, you were still limited to one heavy and special weapons. Meanwhile, Eldar could field small Guardian squads totaling under 100 pts. Under 100 pts meant zero VPs for reducing the squad under 50%, so it's kill/break every last Guardian or no points for you. My proudest tournament moment is still my (tied for) 5th place finish at the first Baltimore GT with generic SMs (sans Terminators). Eldar just ruled tournaments in those days.

Getting this thread a little back on track, as a non-Eldar player but a longtime 40K player, I'm glad to hear that Eldar are getting back some their 2nd ed. flavor. The army really deserves a strong codex.

Posted By Brother CPT Ginn on 06/24/2006 10:15 AM
Just thought of this what are the unit sizes for War Walkers? Thanks.

From the looks of things they should be staying at 3 per squad.

2nd Ed jetbikes as guided missiles...

You know, I even made a template of a long gouge in the ground with jetbike parts all around ending in a mound at the the end with an Eldar boot sticking out of it. When the thing would crash I'd pull it out and use it to mark where he went down. Watching him usually kill something with the impact was the best part.

I do love the ideas behind a lot of this. More troops choices for generic lists, an Avatar that can take out stuff with a shot, and jetbikes that may actually get used. I hope the fire prism sees a boost.

Farseers vs librarians should be a humorous fight. "I cast Doom... oh, we roll off. Okay, damn negated." "I cast Fear... 3 dice? Crap, 11." "I cast Mind... damn, negated." "I cast Fury... oh, damit 12, OUCH!"

War Walkers in fast means you might see them in a fight again. I'm going to look forward to this codex, and I don't even play Eldar.

Just an update guys- the gobbo piece pictured is actually a limited edition night goblin fanatic that's supposed to be given away as a unit bundle/rule book promotion. This info was provided by someone who attended the event.

turboboost, don't marine bikes get a 3+inv with it?

Wonder why they just didn't say '4+inv for turbo boost', why say it was armor based at all?

all shurikats are 18'' now right? And only the avengers can do the special assault3-no-shots-next-turn maneuver, yeah?

jetbikes with assault 3 18" and their 6'' bonus move, maybe that will happen

If they don't fix Holofields, I am boycotting.

No, that doesn't matter to GW, but it's absurd that they won't fix them. So broken.

If waveserpents get holofields, Elfhammer will reign supreme

Wow, this all looks promising, especially pleased about the Avatar regaining some of his 2nd Ed. might, but i still don't think it's going to be enought to tempt me back to Elfs in SPAAYCE!! from the greater good.