Moscha wrote:
Just Tony wrote:It's certainly a better tactic that high priced war machines and a spaced out battle line.
I didn't mean to be rude, I'd really like that Orc Boy rush tactic to work. I love my Orc Mobs. Against certain armies, it may do the trick, but I just have caught a bloody nose too often with it. Especially against Wood Elves, for the reason stated in my last post.
A Chance to make it work a bit better would be mixing Goblin and Orc blocks, so you won't have the dominoe effect so much when one unit starts running, as Orcs ignore Goblin Panic. Still to Keep Wood Elves from flanking, you would Need to have a plain Battlefield without any difficult Terrain in between, in which he can move in with dryads, war dancers , even the treeman. Although I would rather use him as another block stopper, being stubborn on LD9. T6,
AS 3+ and ward save 5+, to further split the army.
I have more than 20 years experience with O&G, so I think I know what I am talking about.
I didn't interpret it as rude, text has a bad habit of coming off snarky no matter what you put.
My point is that the Orcs and Goblins army has two strengths: volume and diversity. Green Tide is probably the most useful tool an Orc player has, and one would be remiss to use it, especially against an army where high points costs lead to fewer numbers.
I'm also not clairvoyant enough to know the terrain in the game played, so a little abstraction goes a long way. Regardless, filling the board as much as possible is still the best you could probably do to an avoidance army: they'll run out of room to run away eventually.
Also, I've been playing 6th since its inception with pretty much every army, so I take all that into consideration...
Moscha wrote:And by high priced war machines you mean…?
Certainly not Spear Chukkas (35p each)?
Spear Chukkas aren't expensive by themselves, but when you take into account the wasted potential against a skirmish army like Wood Elves, it adds up. Long range shooting at skirmishers leaves you with a -2 modifier to the shots, meaning 6's to hit. If you go purely by statistics, in a 6 turn game, each of your Chukkas should hit once. I realize it could go better, or even worse, but when you plan anything out you go with statistical output rather than potential output. Taking that into account, and with your average Wood Elf Glade Guard being 12 points, you've HARDLY made an efficient choice. That's assuming they don't simply draw a disproportionate amount of fire and have less of a chance to make that 1 hit over the course of the entire game.
Moscha wrote:Spaced out battle line is surely not a good idea against Wood Elves. Corner Castle is what you can think About. Can place the Chuckas all across the BF anyway, if th WE is taking them out it is not such a big loss Point wise and that keeps him from hurting your pricey Shamans.
On this we agree, but I think there are ways you can get enough models on the board to NOT need to Corner Castle, especially against an enemy with 30" shooting range.
MattyFenby wrote:You guys all definitely had some very high level advice. I had a months long massacre loss streak coming into this and came away with a draw during our bragging rights match against a heavily favored opponent.
After this battle I am thinking that the Spear Chukkas are DEFINITELY worth the points. Moscha made a great call there and in a non Grimgor army the correct play may have honestly been to bring 8 of them.They were worth it against a skirmisher army with no ranks hiding behind cover so certainly they are a great Special choice letting you bring the old 2-for-1 special against any faction in 6th edition. Doom Divers obviously are harder to judge since mine blew up in the bottom of the 1st (although Spear Chukkas don't do that, so some judgment is fair)... it doesn't have the 2-for-1 and it is double the cost, so I would be tempted to look at options like Ogres or Oglah Khan's Wolf Boyz next time.
Any kind of Bolt Thrower has 3 ideal targets in mind: multi-wound creatures, ranked up units, heavily armored units. I addressed above the statistical likelihood of hitting with those, at least with the three unit types here you have a chance of actually hitting, especially when they get within half range. D3 is perfect for the muti-wound creatures, no armor saves does REALLY well with cavalry, and in tandem with rank piercing. Which that's a rather glaring poing: skirmishers have no ranks, a bolt will only ever kill 1 model.
I also wouldn't write off Doom Divers right away. Your next game may have them be the model of the match. Random dice rolls are funny like that.
MattyFenby wrote:Clearly my wolves and spiders were a bust. Ld 6 and Fear Elves AND the way Corey set up all 3 pieces of terrain that he generated right in the middle of the field forced me to split if I wanted the boyz in his backline quickly. I deployed them all across the entire board and I think that decision sank my cavalry but (and I may be delusional here) I think a more experienced general might have positioned them near Grimgor better and gotten some charges off or been more patient and waited for the WE to make a mistake. Again, you will see it on the full batrep and you will cringe at our inexperience errors.
You know, you bring up one good point. If your cav had been within 12" of Grimgor they would have used his
LD for the Fear test to charge. Small change I realize, but it would have made the difference I think. Also, cav absolutely has its uses, even the cav that underperformed for you in that game. The issue came from you trying to be shooty and stabby at the exact same time. There are very few units that can use that tactic that it pays off in the end.
MattyFenby wrote:I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by the Arrer Boyz. Tony made a good call on them and when I finally get the full Battle Report up I think you guys will see Corey was really afraid of coming at them even with the Wood Elves' finest. They only did maybe 3 wounds but they suffered 0 and helped control a quadrant of the map, doing their job of protecting Grimgor for less than 200 pts.
I always run a unit of 20 bowmen in EVERY army I run that can take bowmen and try to stick them on a hill. They rarely let me down as far as supporting the main push. They are also usually pivotal with pulling a unit down a rank or well below Outnumber.
MattyFenby wrote:The black orcs and the night goblins never really saw any action. The shamans were able to dispatch 128 pts of waywatchers but my investment into them was more than that, so I'm not sure if that was necessarily the way to go or if maybe I should have had some orc shamans on boars embedded in larger blocks of spider riders that exchanged fast cav for light armour. Would have been higher LD for the fear tests and we could have clipped the sides of the formations through woods or over obstacles with no penalty. Maybe would have gotten some charges off against the Asrai?
Why would you want your Shamans in combat faster?
Black Orcs come into their own in combat, but they also shine by quelling Animosity. The fact that your opponent avoided them like the plague should tell you all you need to know.
MattyFenby wrote:NEXT MONTH: We are playing Chaos vs Dwarfs, 1500 pts. First time either of us have played either army. From looking over the books it seems like chaos has almost NO shooting and dwarfs have NO cavalry, so maybe we will get a different kind of game than the shootout we had last time. Then again, we might end up seeing a bunch of cav units hurrying across the table to avoid shooting again...
Now THIS will be interesting to see. Both armies have access to some brilliant stuff, but it is usually so costly that it really makes you commit to hard choices. I'm currently sitting on a new Chaos Warriors army I've started picking up on here and ebay. It currently conisists of 2 20 man Warrior regiments with sword and board and full command, a Sorcerer, and a 5 man Knight unit with full command, all marked Slaanesh. Know how much it comes out to? 1,000 points.
