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Made in us
Been Around the Block



Abington, MA

Tear this to shreds, don't hold back, be as cheesy as possible. This guy has massacred me like 4 months in a row now so it's time to step up for a win.

ATTACHED: Excel that shows all equipment, points, special rules, and even has a "bullpen" where I was considering other units or variants of units.


BATTLE: 2,500 Pt Pitched Battle, using terrain from the Badlands (pg 223 of the Big Red Book)

I MUST use Grimgor as my General. I also MUST bring at least one unit of Spider Riderz and one unit of Wolf Boyz. I would LIKE to bring Night Goblins and try out fanatics because we have the models.
He MUST use the Sisters of Twilight as his General, on a Great Owl (counts as Great Eagle). He MUST bring at least one unit of Dryads and a Treeman.

LORD:
Grimgor

HEROES:
Grimgor Slot
Savage Orc Shaman (Lvl 1, Little Waaagh). Mounted on Boar. Dispel Scroll, Magical Warpaint (5+ Ward Save).
Savage Orc Big Boss. Basha's Big Axe of Bashin (+2A). Mounted on Boar. Shield, Warpaint (6+ Ward).

CORE:
Savage Orc Boyz x 30. Additional Hand Weapons. Shields, Warpaint. Banner, Musician.
Night Goblins x 40. 3 Concealed Fanatics. 10 Netters. Hand Weapons & Short Bows. Musician
Forest Goblin Spider Riderz x 6. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 6. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 5. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.

SPECIAL:
Grimgor's Bodyguard (Black Orcs) x 19. Choppas & Additional Hand Weapons. Musician, The Blasted Banner (Magic Standard: Stubborn)
Savage Orc Boar Boyz x 10. Spears & Shields & Warpaint. Champion, Musician, The Night Banner (Magic Standard: -1 to hit w/ Missile Fire)
Goblin Spear Chukka x 4. (These 4 Chukkas only Occupy 2 Special Slots)

RARE:
Giant.
Goblin Doom Diver Catapult. Orc Bully.


STRATEGY: BASIC STRATEGY
I know he will be hard to engage with charges and that he excels with shooting. Therefore I am bringing 5 cheap War Machines and 3 cheap Fast Cavalry Units each armed with Spears & Short Bows.
I know he will bring the Dryads and Treeman he has been painting and that Psych is key. Therefore I am bringing my own Giant, and Savage Orcs that are Immune to Psych while Frenzied.
He rarely invests much in Magic, and I am confident that one Shaman and 1 Dispel Scroll will be enough.
My only unit that is Cannon Fodder is the Night Goblins. I know they Fear Elves but I was hoping to use them to screen the advance of my infantry and charge block with the Fanatics.
Am I wrong to consider my Black Orcs + Grimgor and my Savage Boar Boyz x 10 + Savage Characters both Hammer Units?
And then I would consider my Savage Boyz x 30 an Advanced Combat Unit (with a 6 man front delivering 18 attacks on the Frenzied charge).

Nota Bene: Magical Warpaint on my Shaman is a Talisman Magic Item from the Orc Book costing 25 Pts, not the regular Warpaint the other Savage Orcs are wearing
 Filename MATT VS COREY SEASON 2 MATCH 8 NOV 2020 ROUGH DRAFT.xlsx [Disk] Download
 Description GREENSKINS 2500 Pts Rough Draft
 File size 19 Kbytes

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/19 02:14:01


 
   
Made in us
Charging Dragon Prince





West Lafayette, IN

Eh, any reason you want your Shaman to be charging in with the Boars? Seems rather unhealthy to me. I'd personally throw a Night Goblin Shaman (Level 2) in with the Night Goblins. I'd also throw Madcap Mushrooms on him so your Fanatics do 2D6 hits on release rather than D6. That's just me. I'd then drop the Boar Boyz to 9 man with the remaining Boar riding character filling them up to 10. Anything past that is simply filling in for flavor.

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in de
Crazed Savage Orc





Germany

O&G against Wood Elves? That's a fething steep ramp to climb from the start. I wish you luck.

The army list is, given the underlying limitations, ok... Or is it not?

The big, big problem is, that Black Orcs are the single most cost ineffective unit in 6th Edition. They are way too expensive for what they do.
If he is smart, your 730 points unit of Grimgor and his Boys will do - nothing. They will walk around slowly , will be shot below half unit strength, and that's it. You will never catch a single unit in CC if your opponent decides to do so.
Not. A. Chance.

At least, your Boar Riders are Savage Orcs, so they are ITP and have a chance to get in CC because they are fast.

Oh yeah and your giant is dead in round 2, ,maximum round 3. Don't use him. He is no good against wood elves. 15 shots on long range and 15 on short range and he is finished. Large target, move without penalty on shooting, 30" ranged S3, below 15" S4.
Dead in round 2. Sad but true. Your idea was beating up the Treeman. Looks ok on paper. But no. Again. He will be shot before he can do a single thing.

The only thing Wood Elves must be afraid of is you spear chuckas (take 6 if you can)
and magic. Maybe fanatics, because they dont have cheap units to lure them out.

So use it!

2 Level 2 casters minimum! More Night Goblins. Forget the netters. Naked night goblins, make em 3 units with 3 fanatics, no extras just the fanatics, in range of Grimgor. Use your magic missiles to target his soft units, like Wardancers or archers, or the character model flying around. Spear chuckas for the Treemen, also flying units. And focus your fire on single targets rather than spreading it, if possible. You will miss too often, he will make his ridcoulously good saving throws too often.

Dryads, War Dancers, Treeman, all of these units are severely underpriced in 6th edition.

Houserule the ward save to a armor save for the dryads. It's nothing more than fair.


I really really wished I had better news for you, but you must say good bye to fairness and fluffyness if you don't want to get run over.









This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/19 11:02:54


 
   
Made in ca
Dangerous Outrider




Montreal, QC Canada

Yeah, fighting Wood Elves in 6th was a nightmare as they would...you know, never actually fight you.

You need to be able to threaten them with enough shooting/Magic yourself to force them to commit to combat to prevent getting shot themselves. Wood elves were unique in that they were a skirmish army in an edition of ranks and flanks. Scooting out of arc and peppering you with arrows until you were weak enough for them to charge in and finish you off.

An experienced Wood Elf General will avoid your Black Orcs and odds are you wont be able to catch them until they want to fight you.

Commodus Leitdorf Paints all of the Things!!
The Breaking of the Averholme: An AoS Adventure
"We have clearly reached the point where only rampant and unchecked stabbing can save us." -Black Mage 
   
Made in us
Charging Dragon Prince





West Lafayette, IN

Part of the problem is not knowing anything about your opponent's list other than the expensive characters and the Treeman. You can count on your Greens getting shot, so plan for that. As cheap as Goblin regiments and even normal Boyz units you should be able to stretch a battle line damn near across the table. The only issue I have with Spear Chukkas is your low BS. They are useless against skirmishers which make up most of his army. Single ranked cav are also a wasted shot, Especially since you'll be hitting on 6's more often than not. At least an Arrer Boy unit will have enough shots to get a few kills. The only thing worth shooting with the Chukkas would be the Treeman. Even the Great Eagle will be hard enough to hit that it'll be an uphill climb.

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block



Abington, MA

As far as knowing my opponent's list, I am relatively confident he will bring 1 spellsinger mounted on a unicorn as a scroll caddy and he has no qualms about charging it right at me alongside charging warhawks or fast cavalry which he always brings. He likes to run multiple units of dryads and glade guard and it is 99% he will run his usual favorite, the wild riders of kurnous. With the sisters and the treeman i think thats pretty much his whole army. A few things I could be slightly off about but this is the type of army he has been crushing me with lately.

Ok, so if weve convinced me not to run a giant, what do I run in the rare slot instead? Trolls? Ogres? Another Doom Diver? Nothing and reinvest in Core? Oglah khans wolf boyz for no fear elves and no animosity and the extra armour save point?

Im working up some calculations on bringing a lvl 2 night goblin shaman instead of the boar shaman but honestly with him having frenzy and the boar charging in that setup kind of did work for me last month. It might have sucked too many pts though since i did get blown out that game.

Ive struggled to make arrer boyz work in the past. Do you really think running them up against glade guard and dryads will work or should i put more pts into cavalry to get them across the board?

As far as cheesing it up with 6 chukkas, im not saying im against it i just cannot lose the black orcs because were playtesting the specific generals and my savage orc boar boyz have been my MVPs every battle.

Concerning Grimgor... i MUST take him and i MUST take his bodyguard. Should i just take the minimum amount if they are overpriced? Or should i still bulk them up because A he can easily make mistakes ( we are by no means experts) and B if they are afraid of it then ive denied him 700 +200 victory points for the unit and the banner and the general?

Thank you so much to all for the advice and feedback

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/19 20:45:22


 
   
Made in de
Crazed Savage Orc





Germany

Is the savage orc big boss mandatory? if not, taking him out and replacing him with a second shaman might work, e.g. a Night Goblin Shaman Lvl 2. then you could give the dispel scroll to the gobbo to free up some points to make the savage orc shaman a bit more conbat-ready.. i am not remembering Point costs exactly, nor which category they belonged to, but i think there was an item grabting -1 to hit in cc and kickin boots that further increased the number of attacks. right? you could really reduce gringors Bodyguard e to a minimum, take out the giant and the big boss, and invest this in the second shaman lvl 2 and upgrade of the other shaman, and more night goblin mobs with fanatics.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block



Abington, MA

Alright guys, how about this for a rework then to optimize against the Asrai...

Excel attached again for a better view of my work and all the math

LORD:
Grimgor

HEROES:
Grimgor Slot
Night Goblin Shaman, Lvl 2. Dispel Scroll
Night Goblin Shaman Lvl 2.

CORE:
Night Goblins x 39. 3 Concealed Fanatics. Hand Weapons & Short Bows. Musician
Night Goblins x 39. 3 Concealed Fanatics. Hand Weapons & Short Bows. Musician
Snotling Swarm x 4.
Forest Goblin Spider Riderz x 6. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 5. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 5. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.

SPECIAL:
Grimgor's Bodyguard (Black Orcs) x 9. Choppas & Additional Hand Weapons. Musician, The Blasted Banner (Magic Standard: Stubborn)
Savage Orc Boar Boyz x 10. Spears & Shields & Warpaint. Champion, Musician, Standard.
Savage Orc Boar Boyz Big 'Uns x 10. Spears & Shields & Warpaint. Champion, Musician, The Night Banner (Magic Standard: -1 to hit w/ Missile Fire)
Goblin Spear Chukka x 2. (These 2 Chukkas only Occupy 1 Special Slot) . Both have an Orc Bully.

RARE:
Oglah Khan's Wolf Boyz x 6. Full Command is compulsory.
Goblin Doom Diver Catapult. Orc Bully.


STRATEGY:
This has shifted to more of a Hybrid between a Cavalry Charge Strategy, a Horde Strategy where I present many sub-200 Pt targets, and an Anti-Strategy where shoot and deny points waiting for him to make an error so I can charge
Grimgor's Bodyguard is bare minimum. Two Hammer Units of Boar Boyz can both win any combat they charge and will probably be fine even if charged.
Snotling Swarm is there to tie somebody down and allow one of my 6 Fast Moving units to get a charge off... is that a terrible idea?
Cannon Fodder Units of Night Gobbos have lost the netters and gained lvl 2 shamans to put un-savable damage into the dryads across the field from them.
I now have 4 Fast Cavalry units ready to rock to support my 2 Cavalry Chargers, one of the Fast Cavs ignores difficult terrain while the other has no Animosity, no Fear Elves, a better Save, and Bows instead of Short Bows.
Is this enough to guarantee that I will get a charge or two off? Or am I just feeding gobbos to the Fear Domino at this point?
This army would also be losing 2 of the chukkas, though. Tony had a good point that I might not have ideal targets but they are just so CHEAP it hurt to lose them


What are your thoughts? Is this evolving in the right direction?
 Filename MATT VS COREY SEASON 2 MATCH 8 NOV 2020 ROUGH DRAFT.xlsx [Disk] Download
 Description 2500 Pt O&G vs Wood Elves List Version 2
 File size 19 Kbytes

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/11/19 23:20:05


 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block



Abington, MA

Actually I couldn't help myself and went FULL anti-fluff FULL anti-lore and gave Grimgor a cowardly, shooty, goblin-y horde.

I'm going to go full cheese on this one and this is what I think I'm gonna bring now in light of all the comments.


Excel attached again for a better view of my work and all the math

LORD:
Grimgor

HEROES:
Grimgor Slot
Night Goblin Shaman, Lvl 2.
Night Goblin Shaman, Lvl 2.

CORE:
Orc Arrer Boyz x 13. Musician.
Orc Arrer Boyz x 13. Musician.
Night Goblins x 40. 3 Concealed Fanatics. Hand Weapons & Short Bows. Musician
Night Goblins x 39. 3 Concealed Fanatics. Hand Weapons & Short Bows. Musician
Snotling Swarm x 6.
Forest Goblin Spider Riderz x 6. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.
Forest Goblin Spider Riderz x 6. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 5. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 5. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 5. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.

SPECIAL:
Grimgor's Bodyguard (Black Orcs) x 9. Choppas & Additional Hand Weapons. Musician, The Blasted Banner (Magic Standard: Stubborn)
Goblin Spear Chukka x 6. (These 6 Chukkas only Occupy 3 Special Slots) . Each have an Orc Bully.

RARE:
Oglah Khan's Wolf Boyz x 6. Full Command is compulsory.
Goblin Doom Diver Catapult. Orc Bully.


STRATEGY: HORDE/SHOOTING HYBRID

I now have 6 Fast Cavalry Units and 7 War Machines. I present 0 juicy targets excepting Grimgor's unit, or the Night Goblins w Fanatics. I am daring them to come and get it.
Snotlings are the Anvil. Night Gobbos have 3 fanatics each and will house the Shamans who will use magic missiles vs forest spirits.
I decided not to bring any Standards that weren't compulsory. No use giving him free points when all of my units fear him? Or is it worth it for the Night Goblins?
I will be able to output 32 Bow shots, 27 Short Bow shots, 6 Bolts, and 1 Doom Diver per turn. This might only add up to 4-5 wounds per turn but they just aren't worth engaging for him, right?

Is this the dumbest plan of all time or is this so crazy it just might work? I don't think he will be prepared for this at all he will be expecting me to run a Savage Orc heavy army
 Filename MATT VS COREY SEASON 2 MATCH 8 NOV 2020 ROUGH DRAFT B.xlsx [Disk] Download
 Description FULL CHEESE AHEAD?
 File size 19 Kbytes

This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2020/11/20 00:46:24


 
   
Made in us
Charging Dragon Prince





West Lafayette, IN

Get rid of the bows on the cav. Take the points to have your banners back in. With the speed you have, you need to get stuck in with his skirmishing archers as fast as possible. At least that's what I'd do. Or, if you're wanting them to shoot, don't waste points on the spears. Other than that I'd say this list has a fair chance of succeeding.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/20 06:31:56


www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in de
Crazed Savage Orc





Germany

MattyFenby wrote:
Actually I couldn't help myself and went FULL anti-fluff FULL anti-lore and gave Grimgor a cowardly, shooty, goblin-y horde.

I'm going to go full cheese on this one and this is what I think I'm gonna bring now in light of all the comments.


Excel attached again for a better view of my work and all the math

LORD:
Grimgor

HEROES:
Grimgor Slot
Night Goblin Shaman, Lvl 2.
Night Goblin Shaman, Lvl 2.

CORE:
Orc Arrer Boyz x 13. Musician.
Orc Arrer Boyz x 13. Musician.
Night Goblins x 40. 3 Concealed Fanatics. Hand Weapons & Short Bows. Musician
Night Goblins x 39. 3 Concealed Fanatics. Hand Weapons & Short Bows. Musician
Snotling Swarm x 6.
Forest Goblin Spider Riderz x 6. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.
Forest Goblin Spider Riderz x 6. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 5. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 5. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 5. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.

SPECIAL:
Grimgor's Bodyguard (Black Orcs) x 9. Choppas & Additional Hand Weapons. Musician, The Blasted Banner (Magic Standard: Stubborn)
Goblin Spear Chukka x 6. (These 6 Chukkas only Occupy 3 Special Slots) . Each have an Orc Bully.

RARE:
Oglah Khan's Wolf Boyz x 6. Full Command is compulsory.
Goblin Doom Diver Catapult. Orc Bully.


STRATEGY: HORDE/SHOOTING HYBRID

I now have 6 Fast Cavalry Units and 7 War Machines. I present 0 juicy targets excepting Grimgor's unit, or the Night Goblins w Fanatics. I am daring them to come and get it.
Snotlings are the Anvil. Night Gobbos have 3 fanatics each and will house the Shamans who will use magic missiles vs forest spirits.
I decided not to bring any Standards that weren't compulsory. No use giving him free points when all of my units fear him? Or is it worth it for the Night Goblins?
I will be able to output 32 Bow shots, 27 Short Bow shots, 6 Bolts, and 1 Doom Diver per turn. This might only add up to 4-5 wounds per turn but they just aren't worth engaging for him, right?

Is this the dumbest plan of all time or is this so crazy it just might work? I don't think he will be prepared for this at all he will be expecting me to run a Savage Orc heavy army



I can feel your pain. I would've probably set up a similar list than your first, just for reason of "feels like a real O&G army".

What you have here looks really disgusting, un-orcy. But we don't want to die in beauty here, we want to make a statement.

That'll show 'em that Greenies are meanies.


Do Snots block LOS in 6th? I think so. So they will make sense as a Meatshield / re-rirector. in front of your main unit of Grimgor & Black Orcs (Center).
Also, if he is making the mistake to charge into them and remain stuck, you can move up 8" with your Night Goblins to release fanatics and let them smash through your Snotlings.
That way, you will have to roll less than 8", because as soon as you touch the Snotlings, you move the Fanatics right through both units and let them have both the d6 damage per Fanatic.


Grimgor should be flanked by the Night Goblins. I would keep the Wolf Riders between / behind Grimgor and the Night Goblins until the Wood Elves move into charge range with anything, then get the re-directors out.

Spread your war machines across the whole battlefield, so he can't take them out too quickly. The Spider riderz and Ogla Khan could be your flankers.

I am not yet sure how to use the arrer boys to your best benefit, but I guess moving forward in shooting range as quickly as possible, and in case of charge letting them flee ( if a countercharge is an option) or stand and shoot.

The Night Goblin shamans should have line of sight on Dryads as often as possible, as they are a really big threat, as they are both deadly in cc for all of your units except for Grimgor, incredibly resilient to shooting (because of T4, skirmishers and 5+ward save, only the Doom Diver can hurt them bad. ) and to make it worse have a 360" move and attack LOS.
The only effective way to deal with them is to burn them with magic missiles, the alternative will be trying to lure them away from your expensive units (Night Goblins with Shaman are quite expensive, too) with you light cav.

If both fails, you are in trouble, that's for sure.

So with this list, I would suggest to move in 24" range to make use of your magic missiles, force him to get to you, just like Com. Leitdorf suggested. Try to stay out of the waywatchers short range. Keep your flanks safe.

As soon as the Treeman shows his ugly face, rain down every bolt in your spear chuckkas you have. Use your spiders to occupy the forests for that nice -1 for soft cover if you can shoot at some T3 unit of him (like the Riders or waywatchers?)

Tony's tip to take out the short bows from the light cav and give them banners is worth considering, but I would not give banners to the wolf riders who will be used as re-directors. Maybe the spiders, yes.

And, maybe, maybe also the Night Goblins. If there are points left to spend. As you might have to rely on them holding for just one round as anvils. Until Grimgor sweeps the rests away. Hopefully, you will never be in that situation. I mean it














Automatically Appended Next Post:
Additional thought:

If you took out all the Bullies (45 points), the spears and bows from the Wolf rider units (30 points) and one single Archer (8 fethin' points!!!),
you could field a Boar chariot.

Edit: Nah, not possible because special.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/20 10:43:26


 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block



Abington, MA

Someone stop me if this is getting out of hand but..... would i be conpletely insane to drop a shaman, drop oglah, and add in 3 more units of Core fast cavalry?

Or even dropping the second unit of night goblins& shaman altogether and adding 3 in there but keeping oglah as a wideout? Am i the only one hearing the music from Apocalypse Now?

8+ Fast Cavalry units, all 100 pts or less... no way they ALL flee right?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/20 15:21:08


 
   
Made in gb
Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Can I take the time to recommend wolf chariots and pump wagons. Yes they are bow vulnerable but you can easily have too many to stop.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block



Abington, MA

IMPORTANT QUESTION:

DO snotlings block Line of Sight? I assumed they were too small and didn't but I can't find any rule saying they don't....



OK, anyone with self respect or a weak stomach please look away now.

What you are about to see is a gross, disgusting, smelly, perversion of the greenskins.

Excel attached again for a better view of my work and all the math

LORD:
Grimgor

HEROES:
Grimgor Slot
Night Goblin Shaman, Lvl 2.
Night Goblin Shaman, Lvl 2.

CORE:
Orc Arrer Boyz x 15. Banner, Musician.
Night Goblins x 48. 3 Concealed Fanatics. Hand Weapons & Short Bows. Banner, Musician
Snotling Swarm x 6.
Forest Goblin Spider Riderz x 6. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.
Forest Goblin Spider Riderz x 6. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 6. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 6. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 6. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 6. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 6. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 6. Spears, Shields & Light Armour (No Longer Fast Cavalry). Banner, Musician.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 6. Spears, Shields & Light Armour (No Longer Fast Cavalry). Banner, Musician.

SPECIAL:
Grimgor's Bodyguard (Black Orcs) x 9. Choppas & Additional Hand Weapons. Musician, The Blasted Banner (Magic Standard: Stubborn)
Goblin Spear Chukka x 6. (These 6 Chukkas only Occupy 3 Special Slots) . Each have an Orc Bully except for ONE which does not.

RARE:
Snotling Pump Wagon.
Goblin Doom Diver Catapult. Orc Bully.


STRATEGY: HORDE/SHOOTING/DENIED FLANK HYBRID

Grimgor is flanked on one side by Night Goblins and on the other side by a line of Arrer Boyz that can reform into a block of 3 ranks if needed.
The anvil is the Snotling Swarm.
This Horde now has NINE fast movers and 7 War Machines. He has 2 targets above 200 pts to look at which will both be heavily guarded.
I will probably still have the edge in magic dice despite not bringing any magic items for them.
I gave a few banners out to units that I thought were likely to see combat at some point.

Anyone whose eyes have not been burned out of their skull can comment if I've gone way overboard but I think this scorched cheese list is pretty close what I'm going to send later today during our exchange of lists.
He is not going to know how to handle this and if I can avoid a fear domino I think this could be the surprise upset of the year for me? Or a very fun and unique massacre loss?
 Filename MATT VS COREY SEASON 2 MATCH 8 NOV 2020 ROUGH DRAFT SCORCHED CHEESE.xlsx [Disk] Download
 Description SCORCHED CHEESE LIST, THIS TIME ITS PARMESAN
 File size 20 Kbytes

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/11/20 19:52:46


 
   
Made in us
Charging Dragon Prince





West Lafayette, IN

Cav archers.

Okay, firing on the move at skirmishers you will need 6's to hit. You're better off going 12 man with the Wolf Riders and bumping up their save to make them no longer fast cav. Now they get a rank bonus as well as banner and more than likely outnumber when they hit. If you're playing 5 man wide for flank bonus, leave 2 in the back rank by themselves to buffer from losing your rank bonus before you can charge. If 4 man wide, go 3 ranks. Close fast and hard, stop worrying about psychology. Your shooting is there solely to drop the treeman, dryads, and the bird.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/20 21:22:55


www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block



Abington, MA

I took some of your advice but kept short bows on some of the boyz.
We have officially exchanged lists (attached).

SHOOTING/HORDE/DENIED FLANK

Fast Cavalry on the flanks. The Shooty Cav targets Glade Guard. I know they'll be hitting on 5s or 6s but I made the call and I have to live with it now.
Spiders set up in the treelines. They will target Glade Guard if possible.
Not sure how to best position my non-Fast Cav yet, probably countercharging whomever engages the snotlings?
Night Goblins with Shamans embedded on Grimgor's Flank. Fanatics position between anything the Snotlings cant screen.
In front of Grimgor, the snotlings, unbreakable (they block LOS right?!?)
On the other side of Grimgor, the line of Arrer Boyz ready to rank up if anybody makes a move towards the black orcs other side.
7 cheap war machines in my backline. They target the Treeman, the Treekin, or Characters.
Pump Wagon tries to hit something but honestly at 40 pts if its soaking up a turn of arrow fire and dying the way a 200 pt giant would its already paid for itself as a distraction

We're circling the wagons around Grimgor, whose total unit represents 800 VP, the hub of my Ld 9, and the hub of my Quell Animosity.
He WILL take the bait and come to engage the Immortulz. I just have to play very smart and not make too many positioning errors.
Animosity and Fear is just gonna happen. Probably more than one unit per turn. Gonna have to be OK with it.
He also has very few 200+ targets so the name of the game is landing charges I think.
 Filename MATT VS COREY SEASON 2 MATCH 8 NOV 2020 FINAL.xlsx [Disk] Download
 Description KHORNE BOWL 2020 FINAL LISTS
 File size 25 Kbytes

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/11/22 16:38:37


 
   
Made in de
Crazed Savage Orc





Germany

how was his reaction to that list? And can you post his list, too?
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block



Abington, MA

His list is on that file there you can click to it on the top left of your phone screen, bottom left tab of a computer screen. I will type it all out i just cant right now im at work on my phone. His reaction was shock and he admitted he is now nervous. Hes 6-1-1 against me lifetime with wood elves i think so him being nervous is a good thing
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





MattyFenby wrote:
His list is on that file there you can click to it on the top left of your phone screen, bottom left tab of a computer screen. I will type it all out i just cant right now im at work on my phone. His reaction was shock and he admitted he is now nervous. Hes 6-1-1 against me lifetime with wood elves i think so him being nervous is a good thing

When's the battle royale taking place? This has been a fun read and I'm way too emotionally invested now- gotta know how this shakes out.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block



Abington, MA

The 1st Annual Khorne Bowl is Saturday a week from today.

I will try to have the battle report up afterwards and i promise ill type out both our lists for non excel users soon. He is the Season 1 and Season 2 champion and is bringing his favored Wood Elves into the bragging rights match. This would be a huge morale victory for the boyz if we could make something happen
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





MattyFenby wrote:
The 1st Annual Khorne Bowl is Saturday a week from today.

I will try to have the battle report up afterwards and i promise ill type out both our lists for non excel users soon. He is the Season 1 and Season 2 champion and is bringing his favored Wood Elves into the bragging rights match. This would be a huge morale victory for the boyz if we could make something happen

Good luck man, I hope you crush. Looking forward to hearing about it.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block



Abington, MA

Do snotlings block LOS???



OK, typed out lists for the non excel users:


OPPONENT'S LIST:

LORDS:

Sisters of Twilight on Gwindalor (Great Owl) (Counts as Great Eagle). 325 Pts (THIS MODEL MAY NOT BE THE GENERAL)

HEROES:

Spellsinger Lvl 1. Glamourweave Kindred, Mounted on Unicorn. 175 Pts.
Wood Elf Noble. Wild Rider Kindred, Mounted on Great Stag. 160 Pts. (ONE OF THESE MODELS MUST BE THE GENERAL)
Wood Elf Noble. Additional Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Shield. Mounted on Great Eagle. 133 Pts. (ONE OF THESE MODELS MUST BE THE GENERAL)

CORE:

Dryads x 9. 108 Pts.
Dryads x 8. 96 Pts.
Glade Guard x 10. 120 Pts.
Glade Guard x 10. 120 Pts.
Glade Guard x 10. 120 Pts.

SPECIAL:

Wild Riders of Kurnous x 5. 166 Pts.
Treekin x 4. 260 Pts.
Wardancer Troupe x 8. 144 Pts.
Warhawk Riders x 4. 160 Pts.

RARE:

Treeman. 285 Pts.
Waywatchers x 5. Sentinel (Champion). 128 Pts.





MY LIST:

LORD:
Grimgor. 400 Pts. (GRIMGOR MUST BE THE GENERAL)

HEROES:
Grimgor Slot
Night Goblin Shaman, Lvl 2. 95 Pts.
Night Goblin Shaman, Lvl 2. 95 Pts.

CORE:
Orc Arrer Boyz x 15. Banner, Musician. 135 Pts.
Night Goblins x 46. 3 Concealed Fanatics. Hand Weapons & Short Bows. Banner, Musician. 225 Pts.
Snotling Swarm x 6. 150 Pts.
Forest Goblin Spider Riderz x 6. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician. 102 Pts.
Forest Goblin Spider Riderz x 6. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician. 102 Pts.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 6. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician. 90 Pts.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 6. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician. 90 Pts.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 6. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician. 90 Pts.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 6. Spears & Short Bows, Shields. Musician. 90 Pts.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 10. Spears, Shields & Light Armour (No Longer Fast Cavalry). Banner, Musician. 138 Pts.
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 10. Spears, Shields & Light Armour (No Longer Fast Cavalry). Banner, Musician. 138 Pts.

SPECIAL:
Grimgor's Bodyguard (Black Orcs) x 9. Choppas & Additional Hand Weapons. Musician, The Blasted Banner (Magic Standard: Stubborn). 200 Pts.
Goblin Spear Chukka. Bully. 40 Pts.
Goblin Spear Chukka. Bully. 40 Pts.
Goblin Spear Chukka. Bully. 40 Pts.
Goblin Spear Chukka. Bully. 40 Pts.
Goblin Spear Chukka. Bully. 40 Pts.
Goblin Spear Chukka. 35 Pts. (These 6 Chukkas count as only 3 Special slots)

RARE:
Snotling Pump Wagon. 40 Pts.
Goblin Doom Diver Catapult. Orc Bully. 85 Pts.


No surprises here. I was expecting Sisters on Great Owl, lvl 1 Spellsinger on Unicorn, I was expecting one noble on a monstrous mount and he brought two, so not a giant surprise. I was expecting the dryads and glade guard, expecting the warhawks and treeman… pretty much only the Wardancers and Waywatchers are new things for me to contend with (and he has rarely ever used them before, possibly never, so he will be green with them as well.) One interesting thing is that he ALSO tried a strategy of spreading his pts out into mostly sub-200 point units. Another interesting thing is that apparently the Sisters have a rule preventing them from ever being General, so he will have to choose one of the Nobles that have Ld 9. It seems like my POINTS targets are the Sisters, the Treeman, the Treekin, and his General, but the threat I am seeing from him is 30 longbow shots so if my fast cav can engage them quickly I can leave points targets to the War Machines to handle. There is a good chance he embeds his Great Stag with the Wild Riders, which would make them a good points target regardless of whom he picks as General. I am playing against elves but my General is Ld 9 just like his, my shooting almost stacks up against his, my magic has the edge, and I am just as mobile as he is. My weaknesses are going to be Animosity and Fear for the units away from Grimgor, as well as low BS and WS. I think if I play smart and use good judgement I can be in a position to win this battle.

 Filename MATT VS COREY SEASON 2 MATCH 8 NOV 2020 FINAL.xlsx [Disk] Download
 Description KHORNE BOWL 2020 FINAL LISTS
 File size 25 Kbytes

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2020/11/22 17:01:31


 
   
Made in us
Charging Dragon Prince





West Lafayette, IN

Swarm block line of sight except to Large Targets or if there is a specific line in their army book entry that states they do not.

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block



Abington, MA

* Mr Burns' Voice * "Excellent...."
   
Made in de
Crazed Savage Orc





Germany

MattyFenby wrote:
His list is on that file there you can click to it on the top left of your phone screen, bottom left tab of a computer screen. I will type it all out i just cant right now im at work on my phone. His reaction was shock and he admitted he is now nervous. Hes 6-1-1 against me lifetime with wood elves i think so him being nervous is a good thing



I think we did a good job together with your list, if he is nervous. I am really excited and I can't wait to hear how the battle went.

I hope sooo much you will give him a proper beating

I always struggled to build such a cheese list myself, for fear of bad karma and the afterlife/rebirth as a Snotling I always shunned it. You are my hero, you're putting this to the test for real
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block



Abington, MA

FINAL RESULTS OF THE 1st ANNUAL KHORNE BOWL:

I will do my best to quickly get a Battle Report up but a quick recap:

The game was VERY back and forth. I scored 3 wounds against his Treeman in the bottom of the 1st inning with my Bolt Throwers. His only spell was the one where he can make a friendly unit out of phase with reality and un-hittable by missile fire... he made a mental error and got preoccupied trying to phase a unit of dryads through ruins instead of using it to phase cloak his Treeman, which was a Large Target and was able to be seen by all 6 Bolts at all times. My Doom Diver misfired on Turn 1 and exploded. My Goblin Cavalry was very ineffective on shooting or charging, scoring 0 shooting wounds (you guys were right, I officially admit that was a bad call to spend pts on short bows) and only passing their Fear tests to get a charge off once (1 total wound caused by 8 units of cavalry all game... the wound was caused by a poisonous spider). Animosity hit a few times when I needed to get a charge off as well. Grimgor, Da Immortulz, his Treeman, and his Treekin all saw 0 close combat. My Spear Chukkas dispatched his Treeman by the end of turn 2. The Night Goblin shamans did OK, staying safe and using magic missiles to destroy his Waywatchers. Fanatics only got one wound when he flew Warhawks nearby to trigger them and then retreat. The snotlings did stun my opponent by routing a unit of his dryads winning a combat by 1 and coming up with a lucky Break result where we were able to run them down on the pursuit. The snotlings on the next turn got into a very strange combat however where wheeling to charge his other Dryads also brought them into base contact with his Glade Guard and his Warhawks simultaneously. We looked up how to handle this in the back of the book but it was very awkward and we both came away from the combat wondering if we did it correctly. (will show this in detail in final battle rep) Since they were fighting 3 units at once and my cavalry couldn't get any charges off the snotlings got shredded by the 3 enemy units over a few rounds of combat. His Wardancers charged my Pump Wagon in turn 2, killing it before it could do any impact hits and they got away with it, able to retreat back to an area strewn with boulders because the Non-Fast-Cav Wolf Boyz were stuck in place with animosity that turn. His Wild Riders of Kurnous were able to Overrun one of my flanking Fast Cav units on turn 2 and Overran far enough to get off the board, thus unchargeable for a turn. When they came back on the board I failed the Fear Test needed to charge them in turn 3 and the in the top of the 4th he charged me. The Wild Riders and their embedded Noble on Great Stag were able to ultimately charge and destroy both Non-Fast-Cav units (and ate their banners), the one Fast Cav unit near the edge of the board from turn 2, and then wisely engaged my Spear Chukkas in the final turns so that they could not be targeted by them (since they were always in CC). The most frustrating part of the game may have been how he set his Sisters up behind the hard cover of some ruins and used the special arrow they have to "pin" Grimgor's unit in place 2 turns in a row. While he didn't get any of the 800 possible VP off of Grimgor's unit he also essentially removed them from the game, with Grimgor only able to offer his Ld 9 and Quell Animosity effectively to the Night Goblins on his flank. All the cavalry failed their Ld 6 tests when they mattered most. In turn 5, I was trailing by hundreds of Victory Points for sure, but I refused to give the game up. I had 3 Spear Chukkas on a hill that were able to target his General, the Noble on Great Eagle, from over 40" away. They managed to snipe him off of his beast, which in turn failed its monster reaction test and charged the nearest unit (his own Warhawks!) The Warhawks broke and fled, and failed their Rally attempt on Turn 6! As the game wound down to a close, I wisely moved to capture or contest Quadrants and was able to use this positioning to eek out a Draw. Overall, my cavalry plan went up in glorious green flames but my opponent was so confused and preoccupied and worried about threats that weren't really threats that he wasn't able to massacre me with his usual style of play. The first ever year of the Khorne Bowl concluded with no clear Champion, but we spilled plenty of blood for him so he should be pleased until next year's rematch. (We were going to play that the winner keeps his army and the loser picks one of our other 7 armies to challenge him for the Bowl Game next year, now since we are shockingly co-champions for a year it will be Greenskins Vs Asrai again next year... 364 days left to come up with a cheesier winnier army!)





Corey- Wood Elves- 1522.5 Victory Points
Matt- Orcs & Goblins- 1282 Victory Points

DRAW- Difference of 240.5 (2500 Pt Battle)

Wood Elf Kills/Captures:

Night Goblins x 46 (Half Credit) - 112.5
Snotling Swarm x 6 - 150
Forest Goblin Spider Riderz x 6 - 102
Forest Goblin Spider Riderz x 6 - 102
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 6 - 90
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 6 - 90
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 6 - 90
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 6 (Half Credit) - 45
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 10 (Plus Banner) - 238
Goblin Wolf Boyz x 10 (Plus Banner) - 238
Goblin Spear Chukka (Plus Bully) - 40
Snotling Pump Wagon - 40
Goblin Doom Diver Catapult (Plus Bully) - 85
One Quadrant of the Map - 100

TOTAL 1522.5

Greenskin Kills/Captures:

Wood Elf Noble on Great Eagle (General) - 233
Dryads x 8 - 96
Glade Guard x 10 - 120
Glade Guard x 10 (Half Credit) - 60
Warhawk Riders x 4 - 160
Treeman - 285
Way Watchers x 5 - 128
Two Quadrants of the Map - 200

TOTAL 1282

This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2020/11/29 15:11:41


 
   
Made in us
Charging Dragon Prince





West Lafayette, IN

Sometimes a theme isn't the best thing. Maybe next time just a wall of Orc boys blocks stretched from one side of the board to the other marching forward at top speed. He won't have much room to maneuver for flank charges and you'll eventually have him penned in

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in de
Crazed Savage Orc





Germany

So, what dealed the damage?
Shamans, Spear Chukkas.

What did'nt help much? Lots of cavalry, Block Infantry.


It remains the only viable strategy against Woodies, unfortunately.

As tempting and good the recommendation of Tony sounds with the wall of Orc Boys, it's getting you nowhere. You wont be able to march Forward in a straight line, because of Terrain (Forest Placement / movement with treesinger spell anyone??), animosity rolls, the ability to cause Panic Tests easily even against really big Units very easily, and possible chain reaction panicking afterwards due to your low LD Overall.

   
Made in us
Charging Dragon Prince





West Lafayette, IN

It's certainly a better tactic that high priced war machines and a spaced out battle line.

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in de
Crazed Savage Orc





Germany

 Just Tony wrote:
It's certainly a better tactic that high priced war machines and a spaced out battle line.


I didn't mean to be rude, I'd really like that Orc Boy rush tactic to work. I love my Orc Mobs. Against certain armies, it may do the trick, but I just have caught a bloody nose too often with it. Especially against Wood Elves, for the reason stated in my last post.

A Chance to make it work a bit better would be mixing Goblin and Orc blocks, so you won't have the dominoe effect so much when one unit starts running, as Orcs ignore Goblin Panic. Still to Keep Wood Elves from flanking, you would Need to have a plain Battlefield without any difficult Terrain in between, in which he can move in with dryads, war dancers , even the treeman. Although I would rather use him as another block stopper, being stubborn on LD9. T6, AS 3+ and ward save 5+, to further split the army.

I have more than 20 years experience with O&G, so I think I know what I am talking about.

And by high priced war machines you mean…?

Certainly not Spear Chukkas (35p each)?

Spaced out battle line is surely not a good idea against Wood Elves. Corner Castle is what you can think About. Can place the Chuckas all across the BF anyway, if th WE is taking them out it is not such a big loss Point wise and that keeps him from hurting your pricey Shamans.

   
 
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