Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

We should get Bolter drill as uniform across our forces. There is no reason a lowly Imperial first Marine is better at shooting than a damned Custodian. We need either max RF at all ranges, or assault 3-4 weapons.

But as others have said, shooting is not our bailiwick, stabbing is. To that end, we need to lose the Dd3 weapon profiles and get some flat damage on spears and axes. Sx2 would be too powerful I think, but S7 spears and S9 axes make sense to me.

Make the Oblit a S12 AP5 3 damage weapon assault 1 weapon, that ignores invuln/FnP.

But Oblit is literally our worst relic. Make Eagle Eye bearer able to target characters. That would be hot sauce.

Oblit would be fine if it was just a weapon upgrade you could take.

The problem is it takes up one of our precious relic slots.

Give it to us as easily as marine seargents get access to Master worked weapons and more people would take it.

Custodes have alot of decent relics, that they never get to use because 3 of them are just so much stronger than the rest.


A sword and board captain with bane of abominations , lockwarden and the stasis Oblette will shut down almost any other character in the game.

You never see that on the table though......

I would not take the Oblit as a weapon unless it was on a flag. No one expects the flag to start dropping characters lol.

If we're talking about reworking relics, we need to make all the Shield Hosts into generic stuff, but that's just my opinion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm also of the belief that generic characters should always get one free relic and can pay 1CP for an additional one though, so whatever.

I do think the shield hosts are dumb, and make no sense. One is obviously designed to favor FW, and one is designed to cater to all infantry lists. One is for bikes, and two are basically useless. All the shield host traits/relics are meh, and I'd rather get something based around our strength, instead of pointing us in a playstyle direction that no one uses. Give me +1 to wound or ignore invulns on characters. I'd rather have zero shield hosts and better attack profiles on our weapons.

So forgive me on this (as you know I'm about consolidation) but honestly I'd rather just have three categories for Custodes weapons. The "choice" of going into an Axe vs Spear is basically not there. I'd propose the following to their weapons

Custodes Light Blade (Shooting)
Range: 12" Type: Assault 4 S4 AP- D1
Abilities: Is treated as Type: Pistol if in engagement range (See Pistol rules)
Light Blade (Melee)
Range: Melee Type: Melee S:User AP-3 D2

Custodes Blade (Shooting)
Range: 24" Type: Assault 2 S4 AP-1 D2
Abilities: is treated as Type: Pistol if in engagement range (See Pistol rules). If used, the unit is treated as having a BS value 4+
Custodes Blade (Melee)
Range: Melee Type: Melee S+3 AP-3 D2

Heavy Custodes Blade (Shooting)
Range: 18" Type: Assault 2 S4 AP-2 D2
Abilities: is treated as Type: Pistol if in engagement range (See Pistol rules). If used, the unit is treated as having a BS value 6+
Heavy Custodes Blade (Melee)
Range: Melee Type: Melee S×2 AP-3 D3
Abilities: Subtract 1 from the Hit Roll for this weapon

We're told each Custodes has a weapon that was designed just for them. However we've been relegated to just 3 weapons with specific stats. This is to do a couple of things:
1. Open up modeling options
2. Allow all Custodes to shoot in combat like they should've been able to in the first place
3. Get rid of Randumb damage for the melee profiles. Yes I understand DD3 is better against W3 models and no I don't care.

Thats just my first thought but obviously this idea was created within an hour or so.

I'm confused, are those 3 different weapons? or Attack profiles? I don't think we need S8/10 swords....

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I'm confused, are those 3 different weapons? or Attack profiles? I don't think we need S8/10 swords....

Three different profiles for weapons, correct.

Also why not? We already have a Sword (Relic Blade) that adds 2-3S on a Marine after all, and that's a generic weapon. It isn't unreasonable for a Custodes to be wielding a larger as feth weapon designed for that dude, right?

Because our basic troops should be able to wield S8/10 AP3 D3 damage weapons with a 2+3++ (Plus 1 to all saving throws) with pistol 3 shooting that is D2. That is broken as all hell. We are too close to being nerfed into smithereens and that would seal it.

We are one of the top 3 faction in the entire game, and you want our basic troops to have that profile? On axes and terminators maybe, but basic guardians?

You're literally only in the Top 3 because of basic squads sitting on an objective with all SS LOL

Shield guard are the only reason we are in the top 5 factions atm.

They are better bladeguard (which pay for that).

The rest of our army pays for durability they dont get to use often, and so is usually wiped out in turns 3 and 4 of a game when we run out of CP.

If they recost all our strats similar to how they did for marines, we might not suffer much till turn 4, but atm the only things that survive till the end of the game are shield guard.

We dont do enough damage for the points either. Only Aquillons actually kill their points back frequently. Allarus can do work, but they are swingy with the d3 damage characteristic. Bikes can put out the offence, but usually get crippled greatly if you go second so are only good half of the time.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You're literally only in the Top 3 because of basic squads sitting on an objective with all SS LOL

Adeptus Custodes are literally beings designed to stand around and guard stuff, their name literally means Adept Guardians, and this gameplay is exactly what the new missions and objective secured were supposed to encourage. If players want to move around and kill stuff maybe they shouldn't play the army of big dudes who stand around guarding stuff.

And the Astra Militarum should only be able to engage in space battles. Anyone who wanted to play a human army should play something else

The fact stands though that Custodes are S-Tier and win solely because of Shield Guard. Everything else is getting outclassed by other 9th codexes, Marines crept up on Custodes designspace in a MAJOR way while being cheaper and having loads of free rules they just dont pay for.

Fair enough point on the army as a whole, but it does nothing to fix the issue with us not preforming at the level that we pay for.

Custodes can certainly win if they spam shield guard and guard objectives.

25 shield guard, trajann, 2 sword and board caps, and 5 venetari is a list that can and will win a major tournament (easily in some areas).

Its just not the most fun list to play.

Let's not forget that the main thing we need is fixed dmg weapons and I would argue also some special rules to not only give us some flavor as melee specialists back, but also options.
I've said this time and time again, but since we don't have that many unit options, no psychic phase, we need something to distinguish us as the combat experts that our guys are...or are supposed to be. The best way to do this imo is to give our weapons interesting special abilities and/or multiple profiles (alongside the needed dmg adjustments). I've given suggestions on this in this thread and multiple others as to how this could be done and I've never gotten a straight answer as to why those suggestions would be bad other than "rules bloat" which is utter BS, because as I said, we have limited unit options anyway.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You're literally only in the Top 3 because of basic squads sitting on an objective with all SS LOL

Adeptus Custodes are literally beings designed to stand around and guard stuff, their name literally means Adept Guardians, and this gameplay is exactly what the new missions and objective secured were supposed to encourage. If players want to move around and kill stuff maybe they shouldn't play the army of big dudes who stand around guarding stuff.

That is a non sequitur if I ever heard one....just because a faction name and lore describes them as bodyguards, it does not follow that they shouldn't have any other meaningful options other than standing behind storm shields. Should they be as nimble, fast and mobile as harlequins? No... but also nobody ever suggested that custodes should be.

 Thairne wrote:
And the Astra Militarum should only be able to engage in space battles. Anyone who wanted to play a human army should play something else

The Astra Militarum is literally the space military. They get to fight anywhere they like because there are trillions of them and they encompass everything from invasion forces to PDFs.

Tiberias wrote:
That is a non sequitur if I ever heard one....just because a faction name and lore describes them as bodyguards, it does not follow that they shouldn't have any other meaningful options other than standing behind storm shields. Should they be as nimble, fast and mobile as harlequins? No... but also nobody ever suggested that custodes should be.

When you look at their rules and models what other competitive play styles do you see them having? They lack the models to control anything outside of the area immediately around objectives, don't have a ton of mobility outside of some jetbikes and 250 point FW transport, and don't have a massive monstrous creature or primarch style model to be able to build around a cool centerpiece. Standing around is what both the rules, model range, and fluff say they should be doing.

What are you even talking about? I hate to say it, but you give off the impression of some one who has absolutely no idea about custodes rules and fluff.
Shield guards are good right now because we are the only ones with 3++ stormshields left (except victrix guard). That does not encompass how the faction should be played.
Custodes need more detailed options to make spear guards and wardens interesting and worth taking again.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Because our basic troops should be able to wield S8/10 AP3 D3 damage weapons with a 2+3++ (Plus 1 to all saving throws) with pistol 3 shooting that is D2. That is broken as all hell. We are too close to being nerfed into smithereens and that would seal it.

We are one of the top 3 faction in the entire game, and you want our basic troops to have that profile? On axes and terminators maybe, but basic guardians?

The....profile I made for that one was D1. Did you not read what I posted?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Canadian 5th wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You're literally only in the Top 3 because of basic squads sitting on an objective with all SS LOL

Adeptus Custodes are literally beings designed to stand around and guard stuff, their name literally means Adept Guardians, and this gameplay is exactly what the new missions and objective secured were supposed to encourage. If players want to move around and kill stuff maybe they shouldn't play the army of big dudes who stand around guarding stuff.

Well Death Guard don't still hold objectives when they die so should we rename them? Drukhari don't host an improv comedy show and star on a fairly underrated sitcom so should we rename them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Fair enough point on the army as a whole, but it does nothing to fix the issue with us not preforming at the level that we pay for.

Custodes can certainly win if they spam shield guard and guard objectives.

25 shield guard, trajann, 2 sword and board caps, and 5 venetari is a list that can and will win a major tournament (easily in some areas).

Its just not the most fun list to play.

You actually don't need the Caps to use SS but fair assessment overall.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Because our basic troops should be able to wield S8/10 AP3 D3 damage weapons with a 2+3++ (Plus 1 to all saving throws) with pistol 3 shooting that is D2. That is broken as all hell. We are too close to being nerfed into smithereens and that would seal it.

We are one of the top 3 faction in the entire game, and you want our basic troops to have that profile? On axes and terminators maybe, but basic guardians?

The....profile I made for that one was D1. Did you not read what I posted?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Canadian 5th wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You're literally only in the Top 3 because of basic squads sitting on an objective with all SS LOL

Adeptus Custodes are literally beings designed to stand around and guard stuff, their name literally means Adept Guardians, and this gameplay is exactly what the new missions and objective secured were supposed to encourage. If players want to move around and kill stuff maybe they shouldn't play the army of big dudes who stand around guarding stuff.

Well Death Guard don't still hold objectives when they die so should we rename them? Drukhari don't host an improv comedy show and star on a fairly underrated sitcom so should we rename them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Fair enough point on the army as a whole, but it does nothing to fix the issue with us not preforming at the level that we pay for.

Custodes can certainly win if they spam shield guard and guard objectives.

25 shield guard, trajann, 2 sword and board caps, and 5 venetari is a list that can and will win a major tournament (easily in some areas).

Its just not the most fun list to play.

You actually don't need the Caps to use SS but fair assessment overall.

Yeah, sorry if I didn't make myself clear but I was talking about the heavy one:

Heavy Custodes Blade (Shooting)
Range: 18" Type: Assault 2 S4 AP-2 D2
Abilities: is treated as Type: Pistol if in engagement range (See Pistol rules). If used, the unit is treated as having a BS value 6+
Heavy Custodes Blade (Melee)
Range: Melee Type: Melee S×2 AP-3 D3


It has flat 2 damage shooting and flat 3 damage swinging? I can't really understand if you mean "if used as a pistol, the profile is X" or this is the entire profile. In which case why do they only hit on 6s with their master crafted sword guns? I'm guessing that weapon would cost significantly more than the current sword, like 15-20 points per?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Because our basic troops should be able to wield S8/10 AP3 D3 damage weapons with a 2+3++ (Plus 1 to all saving throws) with pistol 3 shooting that is D2. That is broken as all hell. We are too close to being nerfed into smithereens and that would seal it.

We are one of the top 3 faction in the entire game, and you want our basic troops to have that profile? On axes and terminators maybe, but basic guardians?

The....profile I made for that one was D1. Did you not read what I posted?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Canadian 5th wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You're literally only in the Top 3 because of basic squads sitting on an objective with all SS LOL

Adeptus Custodes are literally beings designed to stand around and guard stuff, their name literally means Adept Guardians, and this gameplay is exactly what the new missions and objective secured were supposed to encourage. If players want to move around and kill stuff maybe they shouldn't play the army of big dudes who stand around guarding stuff.

Well Death Guard don't still hold objectives when they die so should we rename them? Drukhari don't host an improv comedy show and star on a fairly underrated sitcom so should we rename them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Fair enough point on the army as a whole, but it does nothing to fix the issue with us not preforming at the level that we pay for.

Custodes can certainly win if they spam shield guard and guard objectives.

25 shield guard, trajann, 2 sword and board caps, and 5 venetari is a list that can and will win a major tournament (easily in some areas).

Its just not the most fun list to play.

You actually don't need the Caps to use SS but fair assessment overall.

Yeah, sorry if I didn't make myself clear but I was talking about the heavy one:

Heavy Custodes Blade (Shooting)
Range: 18" Type: Assault 2 S4 AP-2 D2
Abilities: is treated as Type: Pistol if in engagement range (See Pistol rules). If used, the unit is treated as having a BS value 6+
Heavy Custodes Blade (Melee)
Range: Melee Type: Melee S×2 AP-3 D3


It has flat 2 damage shooting and flat 3 damage swinging? I can't really understand if you mean "if used as a pistol, the profile is X" or this is the entire profile. In which case why do they only hit on 6s with their master crafted sword guns? I'm guessing that weapon would cost significantly more than the current sword, like 15-20 points per?

Basically we are to look at the Heavy Custodes Blade as a LOT more unwieldy than the light blade (haha sword go brrrt) and the standard blade (with the gun having one less AP but half the time you land a shot in melee). So in melee (engagement range) when it has the Pistol subtype from the weapon ability, you can attempt to shoot with it, but as the Blade is a LOT more unwieldy we can't expect you to land all your shots, as you're already struggling to hit regular dudes (you get the -1 to hit penalty with the melee profile after all).

Is that slightly more clear on what I'm trying to go for?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Like I said I typed that gak in less than an hour and I was at work too LOL so I'm sorry if the rules are about as clear as GW

Yes, thank you. I was pretty sure this is what you meant but I wanted to make sure. My only response would be Inceptors and Suppressors:
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120101193_PrimarisInceptors02.jpg

But fire extremely unwieldy fully automatic heavy weapons with almost no degradation of their abilities.

Your heavy Bolter/sword thing seemed to indicate they completely turn into limp wristed doofuses that can't shoot, while Suppressors are putting Autocannon fire into faces at 3 times the distance. While floating in midair.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Yes, thank you. I was pretty sure this is what you meant but I wanted to make sure. My only response would be Inceptors and Suppressors:
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120101193_PrimarisInceptors02.jpg

But fire extremely unwieldy fully automatic heavy weapons with almost no degradation of their abilities.

Your heavy Bolter/sword thing seemed to indicate they completely turn into limp wristed doofuses that can't shoot, while Suppressors are putting Autocannon fire into faces at 3 times the distance. While floating in midair.

I should clarify that the BS6+ applies when they are using it as a Pistol profile, and the -1 to hit is on the melee profile.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You're literally only in the Top 3 because of basic squads sitting on an objective with all SS LOL

Adeptus Custodes are literally beings designed to stand around and guard stuff, their name literally means Adept Guardians, and this gameplay is exactly what the new missions and objective secured were supposed to encourage. If players want to move around and kill stuff maybe they shouldn't play the army of big dudes who stand around guarding stuff.

Thats funny because in 8th Custodes started as a full jetbike force that charged you into meele with extremely durable and movile offensive models and ended up as a vehicle parking lot with -1 to hit vexilla around Trajan Valoris.

And now they play as you described because of how missions are designed. So actually it appears custodes are perfectly capable of having varied playstiles.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Yes, thank you. I was pretty sure this is what you meant but I wanted to make sure. My only response would be Inceptors and Suppressors:
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120101193_PrimarisInceptors02.jpg

But fire extremely unwieldy fully automatic heavy weapons with almost no degradation of their abilities.

Your heavy Bolter/sword thing seemed to indicate they completely turn into limp wristed doofuses that can't shoot, while Suppressors are putting Autocannon fire into faces at 3 times the distance. While floating in midair.

I should clarify that the BS6+ applies when they are using it as a Pistol profile, and the -1 to hit is on the melee profile.

TBH the shooting of our meele weapons is lackluster but thats not actually a problem. Assault 2 I would not complaint but if we don't get that, I can live with it.

The sword I feel with the +1S from power swords is good enough. If they nerf stormshields to not grant a 3++ for custodes (changing the detachment rules) then probably swords would need the +1d3 attacks in meele to compensate and make them viable.

Spears only need to be able to be mixed with cheaper Pyriphite and Adrastite (and receive another +1S) and flat damage 2 (swords too). Maybe a bonus if you charge to balance them with Axes in the units that can take them.

Axes with x2S, 3 damage and -1 to hit are good, make them a little more expensive than spears for Terminators and Wardens.