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Made in gb
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM




United Kingdom

 Gert wrote:
Exactly why I said above Captain.
Has anyone above Captain actually been shot by a Commissar?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
The commander chose the pistol.
Something similar happened in one of the Iron Hands novels IIRC

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/26 12:25:13


 
   
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beast_gts wrote:
 Gert wrote:
Exactly why I said above Captain.
Has anyone above Captain actually been shot by a Commissar?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
The commander chose the pistol.
Something similar happened in one of the Iron Hands novels IIRC


Yes. By Gaunt. In the book where they have to save Vervan Hive Spire against a DG assault, the Hive's military commander flees command under cowardice, thus causing the loss of an entire regiment of PDF, several of Gaunt's men, and a tank Battalion and Gaunt summarily executes him in his own command center. He was a Colonel or General I believe. I cannot remember exactly.

But that is also when Gaunt give his speech about how "People think I'm weak because I don't shoot people, but I only shoot men I don't believe can be saved. And I can't save cowards in war." Or something to that effect. Followed by BLAM.

He also executed his own Lord Commissar which was his adoptive father, in single combat.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/26 13:10:34


 
   
Made in gb
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Dercius was a General and also sacrificed an entire Regiment then covered it up. His execution was entirely justified.
The speech precluded Gaunt executing common soldiers of the Aexe Alliance who were stealing medical supplies.
The Colonel in question was PDF and also was guilty of a huge dereliction of duty.
All cases are very rare and not without severe precedent.
   
Made in gb
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM




United Kingdom

 Gert wrote:
Dercius was a General and also sacrificed an entire Regiment then covered it up. His execution was entirely justified.
Wasn't that a duel rather than an execution?
   
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Any excuse to post this vid! has Gaunt got a potty mouth as well?



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beast_gts wrote:
Wasn't that a duel rather than an execution?

Execution by duel. Gaunt wanted it so he could have revenge.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Gert wrote:
Dercius was a General and also sacrificed an entire Regiment then covered it up. His execution was entirely justified.
The speech precluded Gaunt executing common soldiers of the Aexe Alliance who were stealing medical supplies.
The Colonel in question was PDF and also was guilty of a huge dereliction of duty.
All cases are very rare and not without severe precedent.

Rare in the Imperium still means thousands if not tens of thousands of cases a year. It's probably less "commisars don't execute high ranking officers" as "commisars need to have a damn good reason to do it given the political strings of high ranking officers".
   
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OK? Thousands out of millions if not billions is rare. And I also didn't say Commissars don't execute high ranking officers, just that it was rare.
   
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 Gert wrote:
OK? Thousands out of millions if not billions is rare. And I also didn't say Commissars don't execute high ranking officers, just that it was rare.



I got what you meant and I think he's just picking at straws. It is exceedingly rare. What is odd is how prevalent the established lore is surrounding the heroics and said rarities. Hell, the establish lore surrounding Cain, and how he was canon used as a morale building tool, but was legitimately and admittedly a giant coward, it's hilarious.

Also, for being such a rarity, every story involving a commisar, has at least one BLAM. The Cadia Stands series is a good example of that. Every time they show up someone is getting the blam.
   
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Revisiting my tangent causing question…

I guess part of the issue is that a Commissar isn’t meant to be part of the overall command structure. Their entire point is being outside of it. Not really outranked by anyone, not really outranking anyone.

So the rank of those they’re functionally overseeing doesn’t really come into it.

However…..Gaunt crosses that line (I don’t know if it was wilful or not?). So whilst as pitched here it’s pretty clear the General is actively trying to get Gaunt killed, his unique position makes things somewhat different.

For instance. If he was a bog standard Commissar, repeatedly sent on would-be suicide missions, they probably could execute the General for deliberately and maliciously endangering a member of the Commissariat.

But, as someone holding an actual rank? The waters are muddied, as he’s suddenly obliged to follow a given order, rather than tagging along as he sees fit?

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Made in gb
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Northumberland

I think as with all of this stuff, depends on the whims of the author. To me, the whole point of the commissars is that anyone failing in their duty to the Emperor will feel the warm taste of a lasbolt. That's the point of them being outside the usual ranks. But is the commissar safe in the knowledge they can shoot the general and not face repercussions?

If you're Billy-Joe Guardsson and the commissar shoots you, nobody will do much about it, even if all you did was drop your mess tin on the commissar toe.
Popping the skull of His Lordship Sir Humphry Wigglesworth St. Tiddlington the third will get you a lot of paperwork.

That same general who sends 70% of his regiment to death on a frontal assault. Well that's damn fine tactics old sport, wot? It just so happens the commissar he doesn't like is on all those frontal assaults, shows vim and character eh?
As with all things, if you have enough money or a high enough rank and plenty of contacts who will back you up you can get away with anything.

Until the Inquisition comes a-calling that is. Then I don't think it matters.

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It's funny, because later in books, Gaunt has more in line with the Political officers that spy for Wellington. The first one was played by Sir Brian Cox, I don't know the others. But Gaunt is more of a political spy by the end, going on assignation raids and the like.
   
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Bristol (UK)

Being outside the command structure doesn't necessarily mean you ignore it.

I'm a civilian, but I work with the military fairly regularly within my job. My position comes with a rough mapping to military ranks.
I couldn't go bossing around a Field Marshall but I could a Private.
Although as I'm outside of the military I couldn't order the private, nor could the Field Marshall order me.

We also know that Lord Commanders exist so they definitely do have some different levels of rank.
   
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There are ranks within the Commissariate BTW.
Juniors are trainee's and often shadow regular Commissars. Then we have your bog standard Commissar. Then we have the higher ups with ranks like Lord-Commissar or Commissar-General. This last lot is what you'd expect to see at high ranking tribunals and the such.
Gaunt is special because his military rank precedes his Commissar status.
   
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 Gert wrote:
It was the beginning of Pax Britannica, 100 years of British domination of the world as the pre-eminent global power. Post-1914, Britain started a decline in global standing that has never recovered.
But just as a side note, British people, especially the English, very much have an obsession with WW2.


Have you been pulling down statues???
   
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I think it's best to view Gaunt's ghosts as "homage/inspired by" much like how the Ciaphas Cain books are CLEARLY inspired by the Flashman Papers

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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Stephen1974 wrote:
Have you been pulling down statues???

I was giving context as to why many Brits take interest in the Napoleonic Wars and the 19th Century as a whole. The Pax Britannica saw the British Empire defeat the French Empire in the Napoleonic Wars, expand its holdings by around 10 million square miles, bring 400 million people into the Empire, defeat the Russian Empire in the Crimean War, become the worlds greatest naval power, and maintained such influence over other nations that the term "informal empire" is used to describe Britains hold over them. It's a source of national pride for many Brits.
However, it's well known among historians that the 20th Century saw the end of Britain as the global superpower and its replacement by such nations as the USA, USSR, and China after the first and second World Wars, as well as the Suez Crisis, also known as the Tripartite Aggression.
As for the part about the British, more specifically the English, being obsessed with WW2, it's true and was relevant to the conversation at the time.
   
 
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