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I think it's fantastic as a one-off purchase, every model contained within is gorgeous.

 warhead01 wrote:
Not hot. The Boys are a mess. Being forced to build 1 nob,1 special or heavy weapon, 3 shootas and only 5 choppas is bad. The mix is not the problem but being forced to build them that way is. New players will have to buy so many boxes to get what they want because they can't just getting what they want from the start.

That's why it's bad.

It's not bad from GWs side of the equation.

Like, I want one copy for sure. Besides the deffdread everything is new and all the models in their own right look rather nice.

Is it great from a modeling prespective? Well I'm sure I can do something fun with all of the models, bit of cutting, green stuffing and reposing can do a lot. Would the boyz be worth the extra effort the monopose nature would require? Eeeh probably not.

The boss and the koptas though? Yes I think so. Lots of fun nonsense I reckon I can get up to with those models. Same with the deffdread. Even if you have 3 or 6, i'm sure if handed another one you could figure out something wacky or silly to do with it. Make him a turret for the top of a battlewagon, magnetize all his weapons so you can play with builds. Change his legs into some other silly form of transport, wheeldread, hoverdread, jetdread!

Could the box be better? Yes, even one weapon option for the boss would have been awesome, extra arms and weapon options for the boyz and koptas.

I don't mean this to sound salty, but I feel the peak of ork model design has passed. That golden age where whenever a kit came out we not only got a unit, but we got parts that could be put on every single kit before it for some awesome potential. Want a pirate nob? Use flashgit parts! Want a trukkboy, use stormboy or bikerboy parts to give him a speedfreak vibe. It was awesome, quick and easy. Only marines still have that ability now, and even then GW is trying to limit it with the design of models.

To summarize my rant. I think one copy is great! 2 copies? Eeeeh. For a new starter yeah, for someone with an existing army? You're losing some bang for your buck. 3 copies? Why? Only guard with their pain in the arse commissar models have it worse.

I've seen the phrase "win more" come up a lot when dealing with things like CCGs. The basic premise is that certain things you can play don't really help you win because you're already winning, so essentially you just end up winning "more" than you already are. You just win faster.

Morale in 40k is, I believe, the opposite of that. It's a "lose more" situation. You've already lost some stuff, now lose even more of it! Scotsman's LOTR/second breakfast reference is an apt summary of that.

Worse, it doesn't scale at all being that it completely bypasses the whole toughness/wounds/save/damage mechanics to cause auto-death to complete models.

Finally, it has nothing to do with morale. Like a lot here I'd rather the effects of incoming fire and casualties be a reduction to the units efficacy. Makes far more sense that units hit the deck and find themselves limited in movement/shooting than a bunch of the arbitrarily vanish into the ether. And as I said, it doesn't scale, so you can be in situations where very large and tough multi-wound models just *poooof* out of existence because of 1 failed dice roll, where your opponent would otherwise have to work quite hard to kill one.

Morale in 40k is a mess.

In regards to the morale question:

Considering IA13 R&H morale management was actually quite interesting.

That had to do with how you wanted to approach it though and left you the possibility to do so at your terms.

Oh, I missed that you can't build all sluggas and forced to take specials and shootas. Than the usefullness of the box drops even further.

ccs wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:
Not hot. The Boys are a mess. Being forced to build 1 nob,1 special or heavy weapon, 3 shootas and only 5 choppas is bad. The mix is not the problem but being forced to build them that way is. New players will have to buy so many boxes to get what they want because they can't just getting what they want from the start.

That's why it's bad.

It's not bad from GWs side of the equation.

Exactly this!

Thing is I remember going back to the old 3rd war for Armogedon box, just how bad the selection there was. I mean buying one was probably fine but there was not as much incentive to buy more than one unlike the Space Marines or Steel Legion boxes that were also out at that time for that campaign. Ork boxes have usually been less than stellar imop.
Maybe even with this mix of models buying three would be worth it to a new player but it just look disappointing unfortunately.
Funny thing is even though I have no plans to buy one of these boxes now part of the contents may have fallen into my lap in a month or so. I do like those Deff Koptas.

I suppose were I considering making an Ork army I'd pick up two of these.
I mean, there's nothing in there I don't want. I like the look of the models. And my plan would involve buying more orks anyways....
But I'm not seriously considering making an ork army so it's a moot point.

I love the box, but I am basically the ideal target audience. I am just starting up a crusade force of Orks and I will be using basically everything in the box (only the Koptas were added to the army after the box reveal). The timing couldn't have been better for me. I cannot overstate how much I appreciate that my boys will not look like they are twerking as they march to their deaths. I know many people love the old boys, but they are not for me.

I also really dislike the AoS feel of all the beastsnagga stuff (I might relent on the smasha squig, but only ever just one). So having fresh sculpts on the stuff I wanted anyway is wonderful.

I think I agree with the others here saying I think it would be hard to justify a second box. The Megaboss is sweet, but clearly not competitive. Deff Dreads aren't making it into competitive lists. While I will be using the special weapon boys in crusade, I've never even seen someone suggest using them in a competitive list.

I dunno. I reckon you could see some high level play with the deffdreads. If you go all CCW it feels like you have great output for the price. But they are a unit that begs you to go all in to get your moneys worth. An opponent can stop one or two sure. But can they stop 9 of the blighters!

One? Yeah, you can just distribute the assorted ETB boyz throughout other mobs if you want uniform equipment. If you don't mind a mix, then having a few shootas in a unit isn't exactly bad, as the boyz in back were never going to get to swing in melee, anyway, and a few bonus potshots might off the occasional extra guardsman. They can just be removed as the first casualties, too, if need be. And, hey, two free tankbustas with new sculpts!

This isn't speaking to boyz' lack of use in general, of course. I suppose you could slap some spare kit on them and call them kommandos?

I certainly wouldn't suggest buying a bunch of boxes, though, unless you don't mind a little work to break them up (though, granted, the old boyz need some work to not look repetitive, too). And had a plan for a bunch of MA Bosses. Big Meks? Meganob boss nobz? Honor guard for Ghaz? Koptas and dreads, though, should be perfectly fine in duplicates.

Not.

I like the MA warboss model, though additional shots have shown it to not be as epic as the original marketing picture. Since I can't run multiple warbosses anyways and there is a metal and a finecast Thrakka in my collection, I'll probably convert him if I ever feel the need to run an MA warboss.

Koptas... well, I started the game with two boxes of AOBR and later bought two more of that set, so I have plenty of those. While the new models are fine, they are essentially just variants of the AOBR koptas, getting it just for the KMB side-grade is not worth it.

Dreads. Yeah, I've got enough dreads.

Boyz? Since I'm not as insecure as others about ork buts, the 200+ I already have will do just fine, thankyouverymuch. I can also just laugh about the "mixing into mobs for variety" - I've played a boy for almost all of 8th that had lost its head, and neither me nor any of my opponents noticed. They will just disappear when mixed into a horde.

I'll just wait until the warboss is released separately and won't shed a tear if it never is. I'm clearly not the target group for this box.
For people starting out it's ok as a starting point. At least they now get a dread instead of worthless slugga/choppa nobz as they did in AOBR.

cody.d. wrote:
I dunno. I reckon you could see some high level play with the deffdreads. If you go all CCW it feels like you have great output for the price. But they are a unit that begs you to go all in to get your moneys worth. An opponent can stop one or two sure. But can they stop 9 of the blighters!

the main problem with them is that they cost almost as much as a SM dread and lack proper Duty Eternal. 8th/9th is kind of undergoing a Statline Apotheosis similar to what we saw in previous editions towards spamming S6 and S7 due to its ability to glance out almost any vehicle, where the weapons people are choosing to use are almost always lowstrength, good AP, damage 1-2 or S8+, high AP, bazillions of damage. Primarily I think that's the fault of the huge melta buff GW hastily threw out in an attempt to not drop yet another primaris release universally rejected by competitive play, where if you take an antitank weapon that's strength 7, it's probably damage 2 or d3, whereas if you take one that's S8 its gonna be damage 5.5 on average because a lot of races share access to melta.

So Deff Dreads end up in the spot of basically all simple T7 3+ vehicles with no other protections against melta in a game where we're just going to continue to get more and more and more super powerful melta and D3+3 weapons as we start to add things like
-fusion guns
-rail weapons
-bright lances
-harlequin fusion pistols
-zany guard tank guns (there's a FW unit with a Vanquisher Cannon the same weapon you can mount on a leman russ tank that's damage Flat 6)

Basically, core save is starting to look increasingly worthless as a defense for vehicles and monsters, and the only things that really matter are, are you T8 rather than T7, do you have a -1 to hit mechanic, do you have a -1 to damage mechanic, do you have a 5+invuln or better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:


Boyz? Since I'm not as insecure as others about ork buts, the 200+ I already have will do just fine, thankyouverymuch. I can also just laugh about the "mixing into mobs for variety" - I've played a boy for almost all of 8th that had lost its head, and neither me nor any of my opponents noticed. They will just disappear when mixed into a horde.

I write names for all my orks and gretchins on the bases and my headless boy is Hedly Lamar. everyones got at least one AOBR pushfit boy with no head.

 the_scotsman wrote:
I write names for all my orks and gretchins on the bases and my headless boy is Hedly Lamar. everyones got at least one AOBR pushfit boy with no head.

Yep, my guy was an AOBR ork as well. I actually found the head, so currently I don't have any headless boyz... at least I think so, you never know

Combat Patrol box pre-orders are up in NZ and the Deffkoptas & Megaboss both look push-fit too.

I still think we'll see these sprues in a new Battle for Vedros-style set at some point.

Everything in there bar the Deff Dread is pushfit.

The Kopters are the only new models that I am interested in. I am either neutral or not interested in anything else.

This was designed for any players deciding to start playing the best faction in the game. Existing Ork Players? not so much. I have too many of most of these models

Cold as ice

The new boyz models look like a blast to paint but being locked into that weird loadout ratio is a huge bummer

I was a bit surprised, but out local store hasn't sold a single copy of the Killteam box yet. The three or four folks that have models all bought them separately from ebay.

Because of that the store owner has been concerned if the Combat patrols will even sell.

As someone who ended up with three sets of the shadowspear Chaos Marines, I can't say I'd be all that interested in the new ork mono-boyz. The Chaos marines were awful in compostion, though fortunately we did get a full box later so they plugged in nicely at least. I wonder if that will happen with the orks?