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 oni wrote:
Please show all the evidence you have for Crusade being used by the 40k player base.

There were 12 of us playing last night.

There's enough people playing that Amazon has several sellers who just sell custom Crusade Journals - link.

Fantastic anecdotal evidence you provided there Gert. And kudos to you for the insult... who's sad and childish? I don't have time for you or petty online arguments - blocked.

So what does the smart money say for 10th edition?

This summer or next?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
So what does the smart money say for 10th edition?

This summer or next?

Current rumour is next summer, with 30k coming this summer.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
So what does the smart money say for 10th edition?

This summer or next?

Next summer. This summer is HH. Then 40k next year, and AoS the next. Then HH, then 40k, then AoS, then HH, then 40k, then AoS, then.........

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
So what does the smart money say for 10th edition?

This summer or next?

Next summer. This summer is HH. Then 40k next year, and AoS the next. Then HH, then 40k, then AoS, then HH, then 40k, then AoS, then.........

OLD WORLD!

Hey wow, all 5 US Open events have Crusade events running for the full weekend https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/11/the-us-open-series-returns-bigger-better-and-headed-out-west/. But yeah Crusade is totally a dead and failed system you guys.

Chaos Datacards also on last chance - Codex closer than we think?

No one said Matched Play had been tried but failed when they stopped selling CA2020 and CA2021. So I think that was a poor take.

Crusade does have a lot more content than Matched Play currently and they are just rationalising it. For the kind of people who play Crusade (and much more importantly buy Crusade books from GW) they want a simple selection of books that give the buyer no time to pause and say "maybe I shouldn't buy this".

If we were going to announce the death of Crusade, it would be if they don't try to sell any more books after this.

EightFoldPath wrote:
No one said Matched Play had been tried but failed when they stopped selling CA2020 and CA2021. So I think that was a poor take.

Crusade does have a lot more content than Matched Play currently and they are just rationalising it. For the kind of people who play Crusade (and much more importantly buy Crusade books from GW) they want a simple selection of books that give the buyer no time to pause and say "maybe I shouldn't buy this".

If we were going to announce the death of Crusade, it would be if they don't try to sell any more books after this.

The content doesn't go out of date though, having more mission options and crusade sectors is good for the game and for people playing.

It's now possible to join a group running an octarius crusade and not be able to get the rules, which is even more confusing.

Following your train of thought, how are you rationalising the supplements and army of renown going oop?

Dudeface wrote:

EightFoldPath wrote:
No one said Matched Play had been tried but failed when they stopped selling CA2020 and CA2021. So I think that was a poor take.

Crusade does have a lot more content than Matched Play currently and they are just rationalising it. For the kind of people who play Crusade (and much more importantly buy Crusade books from GW) they want a simple selection of books that give the buyer no time to pause and say "maybe I shouldn't buy this".

If we were going to announce the death of Crusade, it would be if they don't try to sell any more books after this.

The content doesn't go out of date though, having more mission options and crusade sectors is good for the game and for people playing.

It's now possible to join a group running an octarius crusade and not be able to get the rules, which is even more confusing.

Following your train of thought, how are you rationalising the supplements and army of renown going oop?

I think this is just a raw business calculation. They don't have straight digital books. They're also not going to do a cost effective reprint of these books to be stuck with excess stock. So they put out the notice and axe them.

The problem comes when you move past the business calculation and it becomes bad for players who would be interested in these books still.

The interesting part will be what happens to the rules for the stuff people use in matched play presently? Do they suddenly become invalid?

They don't have straight digital books.

They absolutely do.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/searchResults?Nr=AND(sku.siteId%3AUS_gw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_US_gw)&Nrs=collection()%2Frecord[product.startDate+%3C%3D+1646999880000+and+product.endDate+%3E%3D+1646999880000]&Ntt=ePub&_dynSessConf=-3774948996420744063&_dyncharset=UTF-8&view=all

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Black-Library?N=3933563954+1045786022&Nr=AND%28sku.siteId%3AUS_gw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_US_gw%29&Nrs=collection%28%29%2Frecord%5Bproduct.startDate+%3C%3D+1646999640000+and+product.endDate+%3E%3D+1646999640000%5D

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/searchResults?_dyncharset=UTF-8&_dynSessConf=-3774948996420744063&qty=&sorting=&view=&Ntt=ebook

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/searchResults?_dyncharset=UTF-8&_dynSessConf=-3774948996420744063&qty=&sorting=&view=&Ntt=digital

They've just decided, of their own will, not to do any more 40k rulebooks as ebooks. And probably to follow suit for everything else.

But they did it for years without issue, they're simply abandoning their digital customers.

I'm not agreeing with GW's practices, just trying to get into their mindset.

Dudeface wrote:
It's now possible to join a group running an octarius crusade and not be able to get the rules, which is even more confusing.

When the next campaign book comes out the FOMO will be higher. Players know they will be limited so they have to buy them now, and the whales may even have to buy a second back up copy to give to new joiners in the future.

Dudeface wrote:
Following your train of thought, how are you rationalising the supplements and army of renown going oop?

If say 80% of sales happen in the first few months and after that point it is more expensive to keep printing small runs of the books, then from the bean counter's perspective letting them run out is the correct option. This again increases FOMO for the future.

Or just have a look at Warhammer Digital.

Voss wrote:
But they did it for years without issue, they're simply abandoning their digital customers.

The issue is piracy. The Necromunda ones are shared within minutes of going live, for example.

beast_gts wrote:
Or just have a look at Warhammer Digital.

That's all old stuff for 40K.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

They've just decided, of their own will, not to do any more 40k rulebooks as ebooks. And probably to follow suit for everything else.

But they did it for years without issue, they're simply abandoning their digital customers.

Well, right - that's what I meant.

beast_gts wrote:
Or just have a look at Warhammer Digital.

Voss wrote:
But they did it for years without issue, they're simply abandoning their digital customers.

The issue is piracy. The Necromunda ones are shared within minutes of going live, for example.

Right, right. No one scans physical books and does the same thing.

'Piracy,' as an argument, always depends on how much money they lose via their anti-piracy measures. Which strangely never gets shared.
Axing a sales format based on the actions of people who weren't inclined to buy your product in the first place always seems suspect.

So uh...all the supplemental rules are disappearing. I mean, with some of them it makes sense - since it's the rules for CSM and Tyranids being reprinted in them - just sucks for everything that isn't.

CSM and Tyranids appear to be just round the corner (notice CSM datacards too).

 oni wrote:
Fantastic anecdotal evidence you provided there Gert. And kudos to you for the insult... who's sad and childish? I don't have time for you or petty online arguments - blocked.

Since you blocked Gert, I'll repeat what he said:

All 5 US Open events are going to have Crusade events. I would call that pretty compelling evidence that you are objectively incorrect.

Why are these going to last chance? What about future players who want the rules?

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 oni wrote:
Fantastic anecdotal evidence you provided there Gert. And kudos to you for the insult... who's sad and childish? I don't have time for you or petty online arguments - blocked.

Since you blocked Gert, I'll repeat what he said:

All 5 US Open events are going to have Crusade events. I would call that pretty compelling evidence that you are objectively incorrect.

I think there is a middle ground where people play Crusade but don't buy the books. Plenty of Crusade players near me - never seen one of those books out.

Which still doesn't mean Crusade is a failed system like oni said.
Honestly, much like the earlier Codex Crusade rules these books suffer from testing the water before the really good stuff kicks off. I'm currently doing a Deathwatch vs T'au campaign and the disparity between the two for Codex content is nuts. At best I can turn a character into a Dreadnought or an upgraded version, whereas my friend is conquering planets they made up and balancing their diplomacy and military points. Wars of Faith has a good chunk of rules and I'm very much looking forward to using them instead of my Marine/Deathwatch ones.

 LavuranGuard wrote:
10th Ed inbound?

Looks like it.

Hopefully this means less of these junky book releases.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
So uh...all the supplemental rules are disappearing. I mean, with some of them it makes sense - since it's the rules for CSM and Tyranids being reprinted in them - just sucks for everything that isn't.

CSM and Tyranids appear to be just round the corner (notice CSM datacards too).

Not all of them, Vigilus is still available.

I'm going to just say that they are probably going to release a Digital version of these, but the rules will still be legal for matched play and crusade.

Crap. Do I buy these last chance books or start my Warhammer Plus subscription? Really putting a guy between a rock and another rock.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
So what does the smart money say for 10th edition?

This summer or next?

Next summer. This summer is HH. Then 40k next year, and AoS the next. Then HH, then 40k, then AoS, then HH, then 40k, then AoS, then.........

OLD WORLD!

Old World will be a Forgeworld product and therefore will have little to no bearing on GW's release schedule. It'll just come out when FW puts it out.

But yeah, a 3 year cycle... Honestly, I'd prefer if it was more of a 5 year cycle, with more focus on actually polishing the turd before they flush it, but that's probably not fast enough for many.

drbored wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
So what does the smart money say for 10th edition?

This summer or next?

Next summer. This summer is HH. Then 40k next year, and AoS the next. Then HH, then 40k, then AoS, then HH, then 40k, then AoS, then.........

OLD WORLD!

Old World will be a Forgeworld product and therefore will have little to no bearing on GW's release schedule. It'll just come out when FW puts it out.

But yeah, a 3 year cycle... Honestly, I'd prefer if it was more of a 5 year cycle, with more focus on actually polishing the turd before they flush it, but that's probably not fast enough for many.

HH is a FW product, too though?

 Dendarien wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 oni wrote:
Fantastic anecdotal evidence you provided there Gert. And kudos to you for the insult... who's sad and childish? I don't have time for you or petty online arguments - blocked.

Since you blocked Gert, I'll repeat what he said:

All 5 US Open events are going to have Crusade events. I would call that pretty compelling evidence that you are objectively incorrect.

I think there is a middle ground where people play Crusade but don't buy the books. Plenty of Crusade players near me - never seen one of those books out.

It's what's happening near me. We've bought the occasional book, but we've never had the justification to buy every single book which GW kind of expects. However, when you have a new campaign book every two months or so, along with a mission book, it's just way too much money for people who play casually.

 Sasori wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
So uh...all the supplemental rules are disappearing. I mean, with some of them it makes sense - since it's the rules for CSM and Tyranids being reprinted in them - just sucks for everything that isn't.

CSM and Tyranids appear to be just round the corner (notice CSM datacards too).

Not all of them, Vigilus is still available.

I'm going to just say that they are probably going to release a Digital version of these, but the rules will still be legal for matched play and crusade.

Wouldn't it be hilarious if they put these on Warhammer+?

It would give Warhammer+ some relevancy. They have already been uploading old campaign books and white dwarfs to it, so there's already a precedent. I could see it being a trend. Release the physical campaign books, have them out for 6 months, then move them to digital behind Warhammer+. That way they can still be relevant without needing to pay for printing costs throughout the entire (short) lifespan of these books.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

drbored wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
So what does the smart money say for 10th edition?

This summer or next?

Next summer. This summer is HH. Then 40k next year, and AoS the next. Then HH, then 40k, then AoS, then HH, then 40k, then AoS, then.........

OLD WORLD!

Old World will be a Forgeworld product and therefore will have little to no bearing on GW's release schedule. It'll just come out when FW puts it out.

But yeah, a 3 year cycle... Honestly, I'd prefer if it was more of a 5 year cycle, with more focus on actually polishing the turd before they flush it, but that's probably not fast enough for many.

HH is a FW product, too though?

Yeah, which is where 30k being put into the rotation doesn't make a lot of sense. It will probably remain just 40k and AoS as the core sets rotating every 3 years, with the 3rd year being a slot for updates to side games (Warcry, Kill Team, etc) or other product that GW is excited about.

HH and TOW are ForgeWorld, the 3rd official main System of GW (although done by FW but it is the one game always shown as 3rd) is LotR

by that, new LotR show with hype for models incoming, means GW should use the slot close to that for releasing new stuff for that game
with the release starting in September but the slot for a new Starter/Edition is in Summer, GW would not be allowed to release models close to the show 2 months in advance, so either we see LotR updates in 2023 or GW skips dedicated new models

2024 for AoS, it is either LotR or 40k depending on what kind of deal GW has (or if they have any at all)