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 Gert wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Yeah, so aside from armies that were outright removed (GSC and Squats), no one has missed more than 1 edition (4th, for example, for DE and IG. 5th for Orks. Etc.).

It may have been xxxxx years between codexes, but it was also xxxxx years between editions. The game just churns faster now.

Unit you were just given multiple examples of Codexes that skipped multiple editions, you can't just say "well those don't count" because you were wrong.
You're even double wrong because Orks skipped 5th and 6th before getting a 7th Ed Codex.

also a very important note on the 4th edition codex coming out in 7th edition was actually a nerf to an already ow performing army. probably the worst book GW has ever released. I think its the only time a new book came out and the win rate went down. A lot of top tier players talked it up as the new hotness and how "orks are back baby" before dropping the army a month later realizing it didn't work.

 Gert wrote:
Orks had a 4th Ed Codex from January 2008 until June 2014.

At least I wished that it had lasted longer. 7th edition's codex was a downgrade from the 6 year old book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
also a very important note on the 4th edition codex coming out in 7th edition was actually a nerf to an already ow performing army. probably the worst book GW has ever released. I think its the only time a new book came out and the win rate went down. A lot of top tier players talked it up as the new hotness and how "orks are back baby" before dropping the army a month later realizing it didn't work.

You are being unfair to the 7th edition codex here. The worst book ever released was clearly the ork supplement released along with it.

 Jidmah wrote:
At least I wished that it had lasted longer. 7th edition's codex was a downgrade from the 6 year old book.

I liked having all of the new things in one place but good God was that Codex a travesty. I think I played four games then dropped Orks altogether, only picking them up for one game of 8th before selling them last year.

 Overread wrote:
... plus many specifically want to play a physical game with physical components not be slaved to the computer (and the app that crashes/tablet that runs out of power/phone that has a tiny screen etc...).

Faster is good up to a point.

You know, photocopies do exist. And they're definitely less cumbersome that actual whole books. Just printe the pages you need and you're good.

I've done it since 5th edition since I don't want to carry any books with me when I play. Even when I play at home I avoid using the books. Mostly to save them from damage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Orks had a 4th Ed Codex from January 2008 until June 2014.

At least I wished that it had lasted longer. 7th edition's codex was a downgrade from the 6 year old book.

And then we had 18 months of 8th index, which was another downgrade .

Deadnight wrote:
3rd Ed dark eldar, 3rd Ed space wolves, da etc.

Tau as well, I think?

Dark Eldar got the 2.0 update which is notably NOT the same codex as the one released in 1998, as it has new units and wargear added in and rules changes but everyone likes to gloss that fact over. Said update came out in mid to late 3rd, but everyone harping on about DE getting zero attention from 1998 to 2009 is disingenuous at best.

Tau’s 4th Ed codex went up till 6th Ed (IIRC, dropped out in 6th, but I certainly used it in 5th).

The SM supplements are a tricky one, as they were still legal IIRC, but it was notably better and less hassle to just use the base SM codex for a while in 5th. I know I did with my SWs, until they got their proper 5th Ed codex.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

It may have been xxxxx years between codexes, but it was also xxxxx years between editions. The game just churns faster now.

Orks missed two. 4th edition codex was in play for the entire 5th and 6th. Also at the very beginning of 7th, until GW finally relaesed a new codex. That 4th edition codex actually saw 4 editions, although two of them just for a short period.

It is only not good an gloom, if one would assume that a new codex means new good rules. Which it ain't the case, by a long mile. There are multiple example of downgrade or side grade books. Or books which were copy pastes which felt as if they were ment for prior editions and not the current one.

Chaos has been bade since when 4th ed? GK were bad in 6th,7th and 8th, and through most of 9th. How long did the ork players get to play with their book, 3 months? the good marine rules under 2.0 were legal for a few months at the end of an editions, and then side books and nerf books came out. On top fo that now they all had to buy 2 core books instead of 1.

stroller wrote:

Do you enjoy the GAME?

I think because the game currently isn't enjoyable for many that is ratcheting up the complaints we would normally let slide.

In my staunchly 40k club half the members went and bought May the 4th Star Wars deals and want to start playing that instead.

 Blackie wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Yeah, so aside from armies that were outright removed (GSC and Squats), no one has missed more than 1 edition (4th, for example, for DE and IG. 5th for Orks. Etc.).

It may have been xxxxx years between codexes, but it was also xxxxx years between editions. The game just churns faster now.

Orks missed two. 4th edition codex was in play for the entire 5th and 6th. Also at the very beginning of 7th, until GW finally relaesed a new codex. That 4th edition codex actually saw 4 editions, although two of them just for a short period.

To be fair that Ork book came suuuuper late in 4th. I consider it to be proto-5th alongside the Chaos book.


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The_Real_Chris wrote:

stroller wrote:

Do you enjoy the GAME?

I think because the game currently isn't enjoyable for many that is ratcheting up the complaints we would normally let slide.

Yah, this

Karol wrote:
It is only not good an gloom, if one would assume that a new codex means new good rules. Which it ain't the case, by a long mile. There are multiple example of downgrade or side grade books. Or books which were copy pastes which felt as if they were ment for prior editions and not the current one.

Chaos has been bade since when 4th ed? GK were bad in 6th,7th and 8th, and through most of 9th. How long did the ork players get to play with their book, 3 months? the good marine rules under 2.0 were legal for a few months at the end of an editions, and then side books and nerf books came out. On top fo that now they all had to buy 2 core books instead of 1.

to be fair also on the ork front, the one powerful list freebootas using dakkajets already had a fix to nerf it and all fliers in the pipeline. same with indirect fire the ork codex was play tested knowing these changes were coming and that is why those powerful units were left as is. The buggy points was an unexpected kick em while they were down.

Chaos get a lot of claims of them being bad, but are currently a lower middle of the pack army, they had a 42% win rate since new Tyranids were released and compared to non eldar non tyranid factions that is respectable. they are right even with blood angels and dark angels. Very limited builds though and lots of units that are just... bad and overcosted

grey knights spot on, generally good or bad occasionally middling, they were not bad for all of 6th 7th and 8th but at best they were a middle tier army and quickly surpassed by newer books for those editions with no real glowup (based on tournament results at the time).

Deadnight wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
"Ownership" of a game like this requires agreement over what is owned, because you always play with different people.

Agreed - You do, but with likeminded people in the same group I've often found consensus is straight forward.

I think it's worth it - others maybe not.

 Da Boss wrote:


I've moved around a lot during my life, and so I don't have a stable group any more. So any group I'm coming to already has their established norms.

Same circumstances here, actually. I think I left where you ended up though.

 Da Boss wrote:

In the end, I decided to go my own way and see if I can find people to play with while providing everything for them. It works...but it's also a lot of effort! I can understand why people want "official" when playing with others that they don't know well.

agreed!

 Da Boss wrote:


I also think it's part of the progression in the hobby to start to tinker with things as you get older and care less about what the various corporations are saying or doing. But you exclude yourself from a large player pool as soon as you don't accept "official" any more, it's not without costs.

Agreed, but to be fair I don't see that as too much of a cost. I'd rather play with a smaller likeminded pool of players than a very large mixed group where its often lowest common denominator orthodoxy or no game.

There is a saying in polish, usually invoked in the stereotypical context of dating culture, beauty and faithfulness: „Do you prefer to eat cake with friends, or gak alone.” In context of 40k, the cult of officialdom turns it somewhat around: „Do you prefer to eat gak with multiple players or cake with just one.”

There is the biggest convention in Poland coming up next month. It’s a Comic Con type convention, with a large, three days long wargaming segment. In previous years it usually had 40k, AoS, X-Wing, Bolt Action and Battletech events. This year it is also the first major con after COVID, so everyone is excited. And what is the lineup? Three days of ALL games from One Page Rules and all sorts on non-GW games, vs an Apocalypse game and one Kill Team intro event. There are no official events using main 40k rules. Out of the pure curiosity I also checked the schedule of our biggest FLGS in town (a major city, >500k) - there are no 40k nights for couple of months prior and none planned, with tournaments or pickup days of other GW games still there. Even during 7th, 40k was present all around, with a major boom when 8th hit. Now it is basically dead here.

Seems to me, that most players are tired of eating gak and now they seek some cake for a change.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Gert wrote:
I'm not entirely sure you understand both Capitalism and the GW release schedule. I'll take a few years between a Codex rather than 3 whole editions of the game.

I can't think of any book that missed more than 1 edition without an update or release.

And if we get to October this year Imperial Guard will be tied for longest they've had to wait for a codex ever.

I mean...we are a solid 6 months to a year behind their original timetable. COVID WAS a thing guys.


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nou wrote:

Deadnight wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
"Ownership" of a game like this requires agreement over what is owned, because you always play with different people.

Agreed - You do, but with likeminded people in the same group I've often found consensus is straight forward.

I think it's worth it - others maybe not.

 Da Boss wrote:


I've moved around a lot during my life, and so I don't have a stable group any more. So any group I'm coming to already has their established norms.

Same circumstances here, actually. I think I left where you ended up though.

 Da Boss wrote:

In the end, I decided to go my own way and see if I can find people to play with while providing everything for them. It works...but it's also a lot of effort! I can understand why people want "official" when playing with others that they don't know well.

agreed!

 Da Boss wrote:


I also think it's part of the progression in the hobby to start to tinker with things as you get older and care less about what the various corporations are saying or doing. But you exclude yourself from a large player pool as soon as you don't accept "official" any more, it's not without costs.

Agreed, but to be fair I don't see that as too much of a cost. I'd rather play with a smaller likeminded pool of players than a very large mixed group where its often lowest common denominator orthodoxy or no game.

There is a saying in polish, usually invoked in the stereotypical context of dating culture, beauty and faithfulness: „Do you prefer to eat cake with friends, or gak alone.” In context of 40k, the cult of officialdom turns it somewhat around: „Do you prefer to eat gak with multiple players or cake with just one.”

There is the biggest convention in Poland coming up next month. It’s a Comic Con type convention, with a large, three days long wargaming segment. In previous years it usually had 40k, AoS, X-Wing, Bolt Action and Battletech events. This year it is also the first major con after COVID, so everyone is excited. And what is the lineup? Three days of ALL games from One Page Rules and all sorts on non-GW games, vs an Apocalypse game and one Kill Team intro event. There are no official events using main 40k rules. Out of the pure curiosity I also checked the schedule of our biggest FLGS in town (a major city, >500k) - there are no 40k nights for couple of months prior and none planned, with tournaments or pickup days of other GW games still there. Even during 7th, 40k was present all around, with a major boom when 8th hit. Now it is basically dead here.

Seems to me, that most players are tired of eating gak and now they seek some cake for a change.

That's the definition of an anecdote. My area, which is also a large city, pretty much ONLY has 40k, with every other game being a footnote at best.

There are a lot of mitigating factors. Maybe a large number of Polish 40k players were LGBTQ and have been either run out of the country or lynched?

How long are we going to give them the COVID excuse? I mean, the same problems at the start of 9th are still ongoing. They are still drip feeding codexes. I mean, yes, capitalism is a thing, but at some point can we stop saying COVID was to blame for the way that 9th turned out? Capitalism, BREXIT, and poor design are at fault here. Not a super-virus.

ERJAK wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Gert wrote:
I'm not entirely sure you understand both Capitalism and the GW release schedule. I'll take a few years between a Codex rather than 3 whole editions of the game.

I can't think of any book that missed more than 1 edition without an update or release.

And if we get to October this year Imperial Guard will be tied for longest they've had to wait for a codex ever.

I mean...we are a solid 6 months to a year behind their original timetable. COVID WAS a thing guys.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nou wrote:

Deadnight wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
"Ownership" of a game like this requires agreement over what is owned, because you always play with different people.

Agreed - You do, but with likeminded people in the same group I've often found consensus is straight forward.

I think it's worth it - others maybe not.

 Da Boss wrote:


I've moved around a lot during my life, and so I don't have a stable group any more. So any group I'm coming to already has their established norms.

Same circumstances here, actually. I think I left where you ended up though.

 Da Boss wrote:

In the end, I decided to go my own way and see if I can find people to play with while providing everything for them. It works...but it's also a lot of effort! I can understand why people want "official" when playing with others that they don't know well.

agreed!

 Da Boss wrote:


I also think it's part of the progression in the hobby to start to tinker with things as you get older and care less about what the various corporations are saying or doing. But you exclude yourself from a large player pool as soon as you don't accept "official" any more, it's not without costs.

Agreed, but to be fair I don't see that as too much of a cost. I'd rather play with a smaller likeminded pool of players than a very large mixed group where its often lowest common denominator orthodoxy or no game.

There is a saying in polish, usually invoked in the stereotypical context of dating culture, beauty and faithfulness: „Do you prefer to eat cake with friends, or gak alone.” In context of 40k, the cult of officialdom turns it somewhat around: „Do you prefer to eat gak with multiple players or cake with just one.”

There is the biggest convention in Poland coming up next month. It’s a Comic Con type convention, with a large, three days long wargaming segment. In previous years it usually had 40k, AoS, X-Wing, Bolt Action and Battletech events. This year it is also the first major con after COVID, so everyone is excited. And what is the lineup? Three days of ALL games from One Page Rules and all sorts on non-GW games, vs an Apocalypse game and one Kill Team intro event. There are no official events using main 40k rules. Out of the pure curiosity I also checked the schedule of our biggest FLGS in town (a major city, >500k) - there are no 40k nights for couple of months prior and none planned, with tournaments or pickup days of other GW games still there. Even during 7th, 40k was present all around, with a major boom when 8th hit. Now it is basically dead here.

Seems to me, that most players are tired of eating gak and now they seek some cake for a change.

That's the definition of an anecdote. My area, which is also a large city, pretty much ONLY has 40k, with every other game being a footnote at best.

There are a lot of mitigating factors. Maybe a large number of Polish 40k players were LGBTQ and have been either run out of the country or lynched?

You have some SERIOUSLY biased view of Poland and should do your homework better. For example, you could check official european Eurostat statistics on assaults on LGBT+ or minorities and how Poland compares to say, Holand or France, the most „tolerant” of European countries. You’ll be surprised. And it’s not really an anecdote, where you don’t have any 40k on a convention of c.a. 50k people, one of the biggest in Europe.

That's awesome that One Page Rules are taking off like that in Poland. The balance in those games is also a problem sometimes, but every faction gets updated in a timely manner and it's fast and simple, with free rules.

Be great if OPR got a decent enough "network" in Europe to become more of an established default. If nothing else, it's a lot less hassle and a lot cheaper to work with than GW games.

 Da Boss wrote:
That's awesome that One Page Rules are taking off like that in Poland. The balance in those games is also a problem sometimes, but every faction gets updated in a timely manner and it's fast and simple, with free rules.

Be great if OPR got a decent enough "network" in Europe to become more of an established default. If nothing else, it's a lot less hassle and a lot cheaper to work with than GW games.

+1 for OPR, its such a nice system

 VladimirHerzog wrote:


+1 for OPR, its such a nice system

Would you (or someone else) mind breaking it down for people who haven't played it? What makes it different and better than 40k?

 BertBert wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:


+1 for OPR, its such a nice system

Would you (or someone else) mind breaking it down for people who haven't played it? What makes it different and better than 40k?

It is a nonsense-free, barebones wargame with simple AA, with 40k factions ported onto that system. Rulebook is short, games have proper, interactive flow and the whole thing is simply enjoyable. Not being IGOUGO, so not being rock/paper/scissors means that it's balance is better than official from the get-go.

Rules cost doesn't really play any role in it's popularity here, as it is customary in Poland to not pay for rulebooks if you don't fancy a physical book, has been since 2nd ed.

 BertBert wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:


+1 for OPR, its such a nice system

Would you (or someone else) mind breaking it down for people who haven't played it? What makes it different and better than 40k?

Well it uses Alternating Activations. So poof, already much better than 40k.

If i go more in-depth, its main design has two main things that really make it enjoyable : Its built to be simple and its built to allow the use of any miniature you want.

I'll use the "40k equivalent" datasheet for my explanations.

There is an overall rule when OPR designs datasheet where a unit with more than 1 wound will only output damage equal to their amount of wounds. For example, a predator has 12 wounds in OPR so its maximum damage output will only be 12 but distributed in different ways to specialize against a specific type of unit.

there is no random damage, everything works with multiples of 3 (damage 1, 3, 6) are the only ones i've seen so far, and the same goes for the amount of wounds 1-3-6-12-18-24, etc.

The rules manage to stay so short with clever use of USRs. For example both DeathGuard and Necrons get Regeneration (fnp5+) as an army-wide rule. This means that learning the rules is actually really simple.

vehicles are actually tanky and require anti-tank to destroy because they all have a 2+ save with multiple wounds.

Additionnally, units cost a lot more than in 40k. A quad las predator in OPR costs 535pts yet isnt trash. OPR's default game size being 2000pts (approximately 1000pts for 40k) and the more simple ruleset means that games can be played much faster and without the same mental drain that 40k brings.

The game uses math to determine the pts costs of things (with access to the official pts calculator available to patreons). This means that you can houserule the models you wanna play and still have them balanced. Lets say i want a 24 wounds, regen dude with 24 attacks at ap3, its gonna cost me more than a full army.


my response is a bit scatterbrained but you get the gist of it : Simple, Fast, Satisfying

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How long are we going to give them the COVID excuse? I mean, the same problems at the start of 9th are still ongoing. They are still drip feeding codexes. I mean, yes, capitalism is a thing, but at some point can we stop saying COVID was to blame for the way that 9th turned out? Capitalism, BREXIT, and poor design are at fault here. Not a super-virus.

Covid is a valid excuse for anything delayed. We are still very much experiencing slowdowns of services as a result of it and the global shipping situation could take many years to resolve itself (it doesn't help that China is closing ports as they aim for a Covid free approach so that's going to have a huge backlash on shipping). All this has knock-on effects for firms. It slows things down; knocks things out of order, prevents some projects progressing as they should etc.... It's not really an excuse for imbalance in the rules or such, but that's on par for GW for the last 30 years.

Brexit indeed gets wrapped up with all that adding to the mess of shipping delays and more.

 Overread wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How long are we going to give them the COVID excuse? I mean, the same problems at the start of 9th are still ongoing. They are still drip feeding codexes. I mean, yes, capitalism is a thing, but at some point can we stop saying COVID was to blame for the way that 9th turned out? Capitalism, BREXIT, and poor design are at fault here. Not a super-virus.

Covid is a valid excuse for anything delayed. We are still very much experiencing slowdowns of services as a result of it and the global shipping situation could take many years to resolve itself (it doesn't help that China is closing ports as they aim for a Covid free approach so that's going to have a huge backlash on shipping). All this has knock-on effects for firms. It slows things down; knocks things out of order, prevents some projects progressing as they should etc.... It's not really an excuse for imbalance in the rules or such, but that's on par for GW for the last 30 years.

Brexit indeed gets wrapped up with all that adding to the mess of shipping delays and more.

Yeah, I moved 6 months ago and i'm still waiting on IKEA to have fething Brimnes back in stock so i can do my gaming room's storage

Kya_Vess wrote:
Coming from Magic the Gathering, honestly at this point its the player bases fault for not simply taking over and making our own rules

I had hope for this but then flg sold out and ITC no longer stands for Independent

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How long are we going to give them the COVID excuse? I mean, the same problems at the start of 9th are still ongoing. They are still drip feeding codexes. I mean, yes, capitalism is a thing, but at some point can we stop saying COVID was to blame for the way that 9th turned out? Capitalism, BREXIT, and poor design are at fault here. Not a super-virus.

I have explained this to you once already, but COVID had a disastrous effect on shipping cost and timetables. E.g. the whole profit of Awaken Realm's Etherfields kickstarter got eaten by the raise in container costs and they have been unable to book containers to some parts of the world since the beginning of the year. The post-COVID problems will continue for years, and with war in Ukraine it will only get worse. And "so they can not print in China" is not a valid answer with how wages differ around the world.

nou wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How long are we going to give them the COVID excuse? I mean, the same problems at the start of 9th are still ongoing. They are still drip feeding codexes. I mean, yes, capitalism is a thing, but at some point can we stop saying COVID was to blame for the way that 9th turned out? Capitalism, BREXIT, and poor design are at fault here. Not a super-virus.

I have explained this to you once already, but COVID had a disastrous effect on shipping cost and timetables. E.g. the whole profit of Awaken Realm's Etherfields kickstarter got eaten by the raise in container costs and they have been unable to book containers to some parts of the world since the beginning of the year. The post-COVID problems will continue for years, and with war in Ukraine it will only get worse. And "so they can not print in China" is not a valid answer with how wages differ around the world.

I think a lot of firms are still soaking the price increase on shipping and not passing it onto the customer yet. I think that means a lot of people (esp those not dealing with small firms or kickstarters) aren't yet really aware of the insane increases in shipping and containers. It will hit at some stage until the prices come down. Personally I'm a touch surprised that countries like China didn't step in to regulate the shipping container price so that even with supply issues the prices couldn't go above a limit point. I say that because if shipping retains a higher price point suddenly all that cheap labour looks less and less attractive to companies. It could well mean that nations like China that built themselves on massive exports, could suddenly find themselves dealing with a loss of hire and a bigger uptake of local/closer/other regions.

Just going to say, Inquisition has had the longest time between codexes out of any non-cancelled faction. They had to wait 13 years until 7th's Codex: Imperial Agents, which was a weird little thing with bonus units for a bunch of factions, Sisters, Legion of the Damned, Assassins, and Inquition. They then had to wait a few more years for a stand-alone release in an WD Index, and it didn't even have troops options! A few extra rules in Pariah, and that's it.

Don't know what to tell you. I like some Apple products, just as I like some GW products. But I never trust a word they say about anything, and do not pretend that they are trying to "do right by me". Both are corporations trying to make money, and unless we own a big chunk of their shares, we will not matter to them. It is up to me to decide if I want to buy anything they make, and there is plenty of third party reviews and info regarding their products, so that I can make an informed opinion whether or not to buy something. I don't need to be on the latest Apple Hardware or on the latest GW game edition in order to get what I want from the products, I decide when to jump on and when to jump off.

I give them my monies, they give me the product. Everything else is BS and irrelevant. We will never be "friends". And all that is OK.

 Overread wrote:

nou wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How long are we going to give them the COVID excuse? I mean, the same problems at the start of 9th are still ongoing. They are still drip feeding codexes. I mean, yes, capitalism is a thing, but at some point can we stop saying COVID was to blame for the way that 9th turned out? Capitalism, BREXIT, and poor design are at fault here. Not a super-virus.

I have explained this to you once already, but COVID had a disastrous effect on shipping cost and timetables. E.g. the whole profit of Awaken Realm's Etherfields kickstarter got eaten by the raise in container costs and they have been unable to book containers to some parts of the world since the beginning of the year. The post-COVID problems will continue for years, and with war in Ukraine it will only get worse. And "so they can not print in China" is not a valid answer with how wages differ around the world.

I think a lot of firms are still soaking the price increase on shipping and not passing it onto the customer yet. I think that means a lot of people (esp those not dealing with small firms or kickstarters) aren't yet really aware of the insane increases in shipping and containers. It will hit at some stage until the prices come down. Personally I'm a touch surprised that countries like China didn't step in to regulate the shipping container price so that even with supply issues the prices couldn't go above a limit point. I say that because if shipping retains a higher price point suddenly all that cheap labour looks less and less attractive to companies. It could well mean that nations like China that built themselves on massive exports, could suddenly find themselves dealing with a loss of hire and a bigger uptake of local/closer/other regions.

You'd hope some companies were making decent money increasing the supply of containers, at least - any evidence of that, that you're aware of?

I do feel like OP is ignoring the real world events that actually happened in the world and how they affected everything.

Now, GW is a slow releaser even if it is faster than before, but cities in China have been on hardcore lockdown thanks to the Zero-COVID strategy. Anything made from paper that GW sells is going to be affected by this. Then we had shipping delays, container shortages, and whatnot, so to argue that GW is some discrete entity from the rest of the world is a bit disingenuous. We could also at this point add the problems with gas and oil because of Russian invading Ukraine which is probably causing some logistical problems for toy businesses like GW. In short, all of it is connected and a lot of companies are struggling still because of this. I do remember GW admitting that their lines have been delayed considerably because of everything that has happened.

That is not to say GW could change their model somewhat. Their reliance on paper is sadly a crutch for a game that needs updates and they could go fully digital and charge monthly fees, but my guess is that either A ) there is sweet money in that paper or B ) they are just afraid of adopting technology properly(which costs money which they might be afraid of spending). They could also try to find local printing services, but then the question is whether that service can print enough for their needs and how much more they cost which is beyond my purview. Personally I think they should go digital and do small regular updates(points, maybe occasional datasheet change) every 3 weeks or so just to approach balance in incremental steps.

I also wonder how much books get delayed because of kit releases. Due to how much stuff GW makes I imagine that the factory has very rigid mold pressing schedules that they have to follow. In short, if they would rush one line(say 40k) ahead of another(say AoS) then the ones who are getting delays are probably going to be not that happy about it. GW has now 40k, AoS, LotR, BB, KT, WC, and now HH. That's a lot of plastic crap. My guess is that the bean counters figured that to keep people interested it is better to weave the schedules of the games together rather than do them fully one by one.

Also, finally, capitalism is also problematic but that's a well I have no energy to visit right now but is a contentious issue in all of this.

You'd hope some companies were making decent money increasing the supply of containers, at least - any evidence of that, that you're aware of?

The problem is that increasing shipping containers - a material good - isn't something you can do quickly. First, there is material cost and whether it is sustainable to go on a mass buying spree of said minerals. Second, those who make the containers might have a limited throughput. Let's say a company can make X containers a month and that is at their maximum capacity. Now, to make more containers they'd need to increase their facilities and hire more manpower, but the problem is that when the container shortage goes down that extra facility and manpower is unnecessary. So the company can continue with their X containers a month and get reliable returns while perhaps increasing prices because of demand. Which means the only way to increase the amount of containers in the market is for a competitor to enter the fray. However, a competitor will only see an opportunity if the market can handle it, but they might also see that the current market is fickle and not worth the risk.

Also, mineral shortages are difficult. Sony would love to have more PS5s in circulation, but with their current facilities they are severely limited. My guess is that minerals for containers have their own issues.

Just look at that firm that went bust this last year. The one that made home exercise bikes with built in TV's/LCD screens. The firm got insane sales due to lockdowns and spent a fortune expanding their business and investing in more production capacity only for their market to evaporate overnight. Because when people were allowed out for walks and such they did.

So the firm went bust because they loaded themselves with vastly increased overheads to expand into a market that was only there for a year or so.


The container issue is the same. Any profits they might get could be totally lost with expansion costs and then after things settle down and shipping smooths out they are left with debt and increased overheads and no increased sales. Heck with the way things are going in the UK consumerism could see a nosedive as living costs go up. So global shipping firms could even see a dip in demand post-corona once the situation settles.


It's the same reason GW would be daft to expand their operation right now due to the higher sales over the last two years. Again its a vast anomaly in sales. Nice to have to be sure, but its not sustainable. Firms like GW I would fully expect to see some market shrink. Hopefully not below pre-corona times, but perhaps back to similar levels on the positive side.

Welcome to why my gaming group basically abandoned 40k over 9th.

9th ed blatently focuses on tournament scene, and GW managed to bring the worst aspect of MTG over into 40k, that is the burn and churn marketing method, where the new meta comes out, meta chasers buy the new hotness, then 3 months later the meta is nerfed into the ground, then the process repeats all over. Its blatantly obvious at this point that this is GWs tactics. The only group of people not able to see this are willfully ignorant.

This however is going to bite them in the rear soon as eventually they will run outta models/armies to rotate into the meta that people dont already have, and its a lot easier for magic to get away with it because printing cards is a lot easier manufacturing wise then pumping out new model lines.

Either way, if you got into warhammer for the thematic wargaming aspect of it, or for the traditional sense of what a table top wargame is, modern 40k is not for you.