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2022/10/11 17:30:04
Subject: Re:Video Battle Reports Less Enjoyable These Days?
Bosskelot wrote: Unfortunately SS82 is kind of a knobhead as back when the Brexit vote was going on he made a video on his channel about how everyone should "vote leave because all immigrants are snakes" and he's routinely featured a Guard army on his channel that is full of nazi imagery and colour schemes and whenever people have brought it up he deletes the comments.
Plus in general his channel has literally not seen any improvement in production quality ever since it first started. Still shaky cam, no overviews or UI elements to keep track of scoring or anything else. Going from even the days of 8th edition Tabletop Tactics to now you've seen a giant improvement in how they do things and it's in general a much slicker, smoother experience with a lot more things to help the viewing experience and to keep track of what's going on in a game, while still having room to let the presenters shine.
I think the aforementioned political leanings and complete lack of improvement really show why his channel hasn't really grown or indeed seems to have overall shrunk in terms of views. Also, everyone gets the rules wrong sometimes, it's natural, but I remember his lot getting stuff severely wrong and very consistently too. That kind of thing will add to reasons why people might start to drift away from watching certain channels; I've certainly known a lot of people who stopped watching MWG because of their sloppiness when it came to rules.
And while I think there's value in every kind of type of play when it comes to 40k and people not having to play hyper comp armies, some of his army lists written in the past were just absolutely bizarre. If you ever brought this up in comments you'd have his most ardent simps jumping on you trying to explain he was just playing a fluffy army or something, but when you're writing an 8th ed Eldar list that is 3 different detachments all with 3 different Craftworlds, with 3 different Autarchs and with 0 Farseers anywhere then uuhhhhhh that ain't "fluffy" that's just a gak list. And it becomes especially egregious when he thinks he can make tactica videos about how to play the army in question because at that point you're just misleading people.
Unless they're spouting extremist stuff I don't bother worrying about their politics. I did a quick browse of his stuff and I agree that his videos are pretty poor quality given the size of his following. Using a decent camera setup wouldn't kill him.
I also gave GMG another go and yeah his editing is god-awful. The shots cut out too quickly, video I watched sounded like ...two hits wounding on 4's...ounded, so one save of 5+...ne model killed...xt unit to sho...ven hits...etc"
Think I'll stick to Tabletoptactics for now, except when Lawrence is involved.
2022/10/11 17:39:45
Subject: Video Battle Reports Less Enjoyable These Days?
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: So I know this is crass and immature, but from a marketing standpoint, if my key demo was sweaty nerds, I'd be hiring waaaay more hot busty redheads to run these Battle Reports, but instead it's all middle-aged white guys. How has no one marketed from this angle? Granted, their are some independent hobby channels with "influencers" leaning towards the camera while painting their minis, but very rare. Seriously, why has no one tried to "americanize" this demo? Just make it boobs, beers, and battles!
I also gave GMG another go and yeah his editing is god-awful. The shots cut out too quickly, video I watched sounded like ...two hits wounding on 4's...ounded, so one save of 5+...ne model killed...xt unit to sho...ven hits...etc"
For me GMG's main problem is how his audio sounds muffled, i can't understand what he's saying even when its edited properly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/11 17:41:08
2022/10/11 17:44:56
Subject: Video Battle Reports Less Enjoyable These Days?
No one, to my knowledge, has successfully figured out a good way to "diagram" the battle on a turn-by-turn basis and in a way that actually makes the tactical conundrums and situations discernable to the audience and resolved in an interesting way.
The older WD bat reps used to provide simplified diagrams each turn showing general movements and attack orders, but newer videos spend more time zooming in on die rolls than trying to actually depict the battlefield situation.
I'm surprised no one is doing 10-minute videos that uses overhead still shots combined with animated diagramming to depict the flow the battle.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: So I know this is crass and immature, but from a marketing standpoint, if my key demo was sweaty nerds, I'd be hiring waaaay more hot busty redheads to run these Battle Reports, but instead it's all middle-aged white guys. How has no one marketed from this angle? Granted, their are some independent hobby channels with "influencers" leaning towards the camera while painting their minis, but very rare. Seriously, why has no one tried to "americanize" this demo? Just make it boobs, beers, and battles!
Duff man approves!
Christ alive, yeah that'll work. And why is the race of the viewers relevant?
I hope you don't run your own business if you'd be willing to call your patrons "sweaty nerds".
2022/10/11 18:38:11
Subject: Video Battle Reports Less Enjoyable These Days?
Mezmorki wrote: No one, to my knowledge, has successfully figured out a good way to "diagram" the battle on a turn-by-turn basis and in a way that actually makes the tactical conundrums and situations discernable to the audience and resolved in an interesting way.
The older WD bat reps used to provide simplified diagrams each turn showing general movements and attack orders, but newer videos spend more time zooming in on die rolls than trying to actually depict the battlefield situation.
I'm surprised no one is doing 10-minute videos that uses overhead still shots combined with animated diagramming to depict the flow the battle.
I don't remember who did them, but I do remember battle reports made exactly like that.
Needlessly to say, they were the best ones.
2022/10/11 18:50:02
Subject: Video Battle Reports Less Enjoyable These Days?
No buts. Just don’t. If you know it’s crass and immature don’t post the crass and immature thing. Do better.
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
2022/10/11 18:54:20
Subject: Video Battle Reports Less Enjoyable These Days?
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: So I know this is crass and immature, but from a marketing standpoint, if my key demo was sweaty nerds, I'd be hiring waaaay more hot busty redheads to run these Battle Reports, but instead it's all middle-aged white guys. How has no one marketed from this angle? Granted, their are some independent hobby channels with "influencers" leaning towards the camera while painting their minis, but very rare. Seriously, why has no one tried to "americanize" this demo? Just make it boobs, beers, and battles!
I also gave GMG another go and yeah his editing is god-awful. The shots cut out too quickly, video I watched sounded like ...two hits wounding on 4's...ounded, so one save of 5+...ne model killed...xt unit to sho...ven hits...etc"
For me GMG's main problem is how his audio sounds muffled, i can't understand what he's saying even when its edited properly.
Fezzik isn't wrong though and pointing that out is fine. One of the Game stores I've been going to recently does this with female employees, having the girls run all of the social media for the store in ways that are very much inspired by the way influencers and onlyfans girls operate their businesses. The store from what I heard from the owner has seen profits up nearly 200% since they started these social media campaigns.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/11 19:27:59
2022/10/11 19:34:13
Subject: Video Battle Reports Less Enjoyable These Days?
godardc wrote: Video battle reports have never been interesting and have been the doom of the Hobby.
They take hours, take ages to start, people act stupidly to try to get your attention and it's blatant irritating.
Written battle reports are clear, short, don't need your constant attention and are devoid of anyone people screaming in your ears and making private jokes.
These are my thoughts almost exactly. It does seem to take a bit more effort to produce and I'm clearly not the target audience of a battle report, but while I will read (or skim depending on my needs) a written battle report, I will almost always skip a video report. I can get what I need out of a written report in 3-7 minutes.
The exception is a video tutorial. I will spend more time watching a well done game tutorial. In fact such tutorials have been essential to some of my boardgame experiences. However, even with wargames, I think there's no reason for a good tutorial to take much more than 30 minutes to cover the basics of gameplay.
I mean, lets all just PRETEND that any "cons" aren't blatantly selling products through attractive young female "Cosplay enthusiasts".
Let's also just pretend that the 40k fandom is by and large NOT made up of young cis gendered white males.
Pointing out that the almighty dollar drives all the worst decisions by companies EVER, asking why sexuality hasn't been used in marketing isn't wrong, or JAQing off, it's honestly wondering why one of the worst run companies in the world isn't putting more flesh in their marketing of their really already cringe "player facing" engagement.
2022/10/11 21:02:08
Subject: Re:Video Battle Reports Less Enjoyable These Days?
It's part of a larger effort by Little Wars TV (a group of mostly historical gamers) to create short-form video battle reports under the "Quick Strike" title.
Their challenge had 3 rules:
(1) Your video must be under 10 minutes long
(2) Include some historical context & scenario summary
(3) Recap the entire game, start to finish
And usually with some graphics and music.
Maybe this is something more 40k video batreps should strive for?
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: So I know this is crass and immature, but from a marketing standpoint, if my key demo was sweaty nerds, I'd be hiring waaaay more hot busty redheads to run these Battle Reports, but instead it's all middle-aged white guys. How has no one marketed from this angle? Granted, their are some independent hobby channels with "influencers" leaning towards the camera while painting their minis, but very rare. Seriously, why has no one tried to "americanize" this demo? Just make it boobs, beers, and battles!
Duff man approves!
We have to be inclusive now. Such a channel would be torn apart by virtue signallers.
2022/10/11 21:25:59
Subject: Video Battle Reports Less Enjoyable These Days?
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: So I know this is crass and immature, but from a marketing standpoint, if my key demo was sweaty nerds, I'd be hiring waaaay more hot busty redheads to run these Battle Reports, but instead it's all middle-aged white guys. How has no one marketed from this angle? Granted, their are some independent hobby channels with "influencers" leaning towards the camera while painting their minis, but very rare. Seriously, why has no one tried to "americanize" this demo? Just make it boobs, beers, and battles!
Duff man approves!
Employees cost money and the vast majority of these things are one man crews that probably aren't making anywhere near enough to afford to pay someone to work for them.
On a side note, one of the things that I really struggle with is the move towards Twitch streaming. Taking something that's already kind of empty and filling it with live answers to a chat I'm not reading (and lets be clear, its worse if you follow the chat) does the production no favors.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Apple fox wrote: I just cannot watch 40k battle reports anymore myself.
But am still watching other games a fair bit.
And if I can I like finding good narrative game battle report.
Even the warhammer+ ones which I think should be a highlight I am done by turn 2 and that’s often about the half way point anyway.
As much as GW likes to push its games as narrative in design, they really don't have much in the way of big moments in gameplay. There are very few actions in the game that do something other than trigger a series of die rolls that result in determining the wounds inflicted. It makes gameplay feel very mechanical and while a good host can hype up the drama of rolls, its hard to do that in a way that makes armies feel different enough to keep reports feeling fresh. Despite the deluge of rules they've added to make armies unique, its largely just dice modification and not something that makes armies feel truly distinct the way they do in games like Warmachine or Malifaux or MCP or something like that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/11 21:42:28
2022/10/11 21:53:30
Subject: Video Battle Reports Less Enjoyable These Days?
No buts. Just don’t. If you know it’s crass and immature don’t post the crass and immature thing. Do better.
Stop having fun!!!
calling all wargamers sweatlords and asking for more sexuality in batreps isnt really what i call "having fun"
If you can't laugh at some aspects of the hobby you're taking it too seriously. Pretending there's not a lot of wargamers that need to go to horny jail *bonk* is just denial in its purest form.
2022/10/12 00:47:03
Subject: Video Battle Reports Less Enjoyable These Days?
I still find them enjoyable. But they are never as "good" as when an edition is fresh or at least a new book or codex. The only ones that keep my attention late in an edition are ones linked to a narrative campaign. Watching army x vs army y for the for the eightieth time isnt fun
2022/10/12 01:01:20
Subject: Video Battle Reports Less Enjoyable These Days?
The only think that boggles my mind more than people watching videos of OTHER PEOPLE playing video games instead of playing video games themselves is people watching videos of OTHER PEOPLE rolling dice.
I am also a bit biased as my time for checking out BatReps is usually confined to cycle times at work. Can't watch videos at all there without subtitles, and even then, it's a turn on/turn off affair. I'd much rather read at my speed.
I find the biggest problem with most "bat reps" is the "This is how I interpret that rule" problem.
Tabletop titans videos are RIFE with misplayed rules, fudged things, and "I forgot this, can I have it two turns later?"
At the end of the day, there can never be a 100% perfect (rules wise) game of 40k streamed, because even the people who write the rules for a living obviously don't understand them, or likely even play the game. So unless you are somehow carrying a GW stamp on your videos that says, all rules in this video are exactly how GW expects them to function, the game is up to interpretation.
Why is this important? Because a large chunk of viewers of bat reps watch them to learn how someone they view as a professional gamer, uses them, or interprets them. Therefor they are educational to a large part. This is bad. Because it's completely subjective. If the YMDC sub forum is anything to go by, people seemingly have difficulty understanding when the "fight phase" is complete, or if a dead/destroyed model/unit gets to "fight again". Which means you can watch 1000 bat reps, and they might have a 1000 different ways to interpret a given rule. Hence, not educational.
So if the largest purpose of batreps is invalid, what remains? Baseball fans. People who watch incredibly slow and boring competitive events with hardly anything exciting ever happening. Or people who chose to express brand loyalty. I don't personally give a toss about 95% of her videos, but I will always leave discourse minis videos on in the background while I paint or clean, because it gives her add revenue, and I have to appreciate the hustle.
So TL;DR, Batreps are completely pointless in today's meta, unless you like boring competitive events, or know the person making them.
2022/10/12 02:50:16
Subject: Video Battle Reports Less Enjoyable These Days?
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: So I know this is crass and immature, but from a marketing standpoint, if my key demo was sweaty nerds, I'd be hiring waaaay more hot busty redheads to run these Battle Reports, but instead it's all middle-aged white guys. How has no one marketed from this angle?
Finally, a decent idea out of you!
2022/10/12 02:59:03
Subject: Video Battle Reports Less Enjoyable These Days?
Just Tony wrote: The only think that boggles my mind more than people watching videos of OTHER PEOPLE playing video games instead of playing video games themselves is people watching videos of OTHER PEOPLE rolling dice.
There are plenty of reasons.
I watch Top Gear/The Grand Tour. I don't have any real interest in cars. So why do I watch these shows? Because the presenters are entertaining, and they do stupid things that are funny.
I have zero interest in Halo, yet on Saturday I spent damn near 4 hours watching a video of four people trying to complete a single level in Halo 5 on the highest possible difficulty. Why? Because it was hilarious to watch them do it, and I'm watching for them not for the game.
I've watched Let's Plays of games on YouTube for games I don't own, on consoles I don't own, or because I can't run them on my current PC. I've watched more of LegendofTotalWar playing Total War Warhammer than I have played the game, despite owning the game, because I'm learning how to play the game from his videos. I imagine plenty of people watch these things because they lack access or perhaps even have things that prevent them from playing.
I watch Twilight's BatReps because they're funny, and I like seeing painted armies/tables.
I watch 40K batreps from several channels (Glacial Geek, Tabletop Titans, Tabletop Tactics, Hellstorm, MWG and Winters SEO) when I am painting, chilling on an early Saturday morning or hanging out in a hotel room on a work trip. I also enjoy some AOS batreps from other channels. I would rather play 40K than watch someone else, but I do enjoy an engaging batrep where at a minimum I can have some fun background noise and maybe, just maybe, I can learn something. I do not, though, enjoy tournament live streams. Weird eh?
I respect, though, that others may not enjoy watching batreps and can also understand that folks' enjoyment of 40K can wax and wane over time.
All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand
2022/10/12 03:46:57
Subject: Video Battle Reports Less Enjoyable These Days?
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: So I know this is crass and immature, but from a marketing standpoint, if my key demo was sweaty nerds, I'd be hiring waaaay more hot busty redheads to run these Battle Reports, but instead it's all middle-aged white guys. How has no one marketed from this angle? Granted, their are some independent hobby channels with "influencers" leaning towards the camera while painting their minis, but very rare. Seriously, why has no one tried to "americanize" this demo? Just make it boobs, beers, and battles!
Duff man approves!
Serious answer? It's a dumb way to make content. You'd work hard for little money. Every once in a while I see on social media someone trying to push her new social media or OF using WH, with fairly clear intentions of hoping its an easy market. They almost all give up immediately. Warhammer takes far, far, far too much investment to "fake". After 1-2 videos, they quit and switch to magic or Pokémon. It's a lot easier to just open packs with other hobbies then wargaming, and a bigger audience. Lets be honest. It takes a lot of money and time to build your army, paint it, and learn the INSANE amount of rules and interactions to actually play this game on camera. And you better believe you get it near perfect or else 90% of your comments will be hate. I mean you wonder why the hobby is full of "sweaty nerds". It's because you have to be one on some level to dive into this hobby enough to accurately play it.
So why would anyone do it? Even if it was easier, YT doesn't reward long format video anymore. Why would I, if actually trying to grow my channel, post an hour long video and the NIGHTMARE it takes to make that ... all for a few thousand views... when I can post a 15 second short about literally anything and get 10k views? YT wants you to push shorts to compete with tiktok, and as a creator you want to make your videos JUUUUST long enough for monetization and keep people engaged. People, unless flat out stupid, are only making BR because THEY find it fun and they enjoy doing it.
2022/10/12 04:34:16
Subject: Video Battle Reports Less Enjoyable These Days?
Just Tony wrote: The only think that boggles my mind more than people watching videos of OTHER PEOPLE playing video games instead of playing video games themselves is people watching videos of OTHER PEOPLE rolling dice.
Just wait till we get "Miniwargamer Dave REACTS on Tabletop Tactics playing Chaos" - so people can watch other people watching other people rolling dice .
2022/10/12 04:57:46
Subject: Video Battle Reports Less Enjoyable These Days?
Just Tony wrote: The only think that boggles my mind more than people watching videos of OTHER PEOPLE playing video games instead of playing video games themselves is people watching videos of OTHER PEOPLE rolling dice.
I am also a bit biased as my time for checking out BatReps is usually confined to cycle times at work. Can't watch videos at all there without subtitles, and even then, it's a turn on/turn off affair. I'd much rather read at my speed.
Thing is not everybody can play whenever they wish. No opponent to call 24/7, no place to play at will, need to paint models sometimes(playing and painting simultaneously is kind of hard).
The 2 aren't exactly competing with each other. Battle reports are more of competing with music than playing game.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2022/10/12 07:34:20
Subject: Video Battle Reports Less Enjoyable These Days?
Just Tony wrote: The only think that boggles my mind more than people watching videos of OTHER PEOPLE playing video games instead of playing video games themselves is people watching videos of OTHER PEOPLE rolling dice.
I am also a bit biased as my time for checking out BatReps is usually confined to cycle times at work. Can't watch videos at all there without subtitles, and even then, it's a turn on/turn off affair. I'd much rather read at my speed.
It is easy to explain, it is more interesting then watching news channels on the TV with parents. Some games are platform locked. Xbox doesnt work in my area, because of unstable internet, if I want to see how a game is only option is to watch others do it. There is also the personality factor, some people watch others play anything, because they find them entertaining.
And then there is the whole sports angle. People watch e-sports the same way some people watch sport.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
.
