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Does anyone know how they track product transfer to the stores from GW manufacturing ?

IE They sell a model to the FLGS for XX% of their MSRP, do they show that same "cost" to the GW store.

Jerram wrote:
Does anyone know how they track product transfer to the stores from GW manufacturing ?

IE They sell a model to the FLGS for XX% of their MSRP, do they show that same "cost" to the GW store.

Would there be any reason to? The local employee is just a cash register operator with no meaningful power to make decisions and no independent finances. I'm sure someone at GW has that information for analysis but I don't see any reason why the local store would have or need that information.

Aecus Decimus wrote:

Jerram wrote:
Does anyone know how they track product transfer to the stores from GW manufacturing ?

IE They sell a model to the FLGS for XX% of their MSRP, do they show that same "cost" to the GW store.

Would there be any reason to? The local employee is just a cash register operator with no meaningful power to make decisions and no independent finances. I'm sure someone at GW has that information for analysis but I don't see any reason why the local store would have or need that information.

If the discussion is about profitability of said store as an independent entity as they are doing then yeah. Its routine accounting among different section of large businesses (and within governments for that matter). Whether that's someone in the store or someone in accounting at the store level is irrelevant to my question however.

Jerram wrote:

Aecus Decimus wrote:

Jerram wrote:
Does anyone know how they track product transfer to the stores from GW manufacturing ?

IE They sell a model to the FLGS for XX% of their MSRP, do they show that same "cost" to the GW store.

Would there be any reason to? The local employee is just a cash register operator with no meaningful power to make decisions and no independent finances. I'm sure someone at GW has that information for analysis but I don't see any reason why the local store would have or need that information.

If the discussion is about profitability of said store as an independent entity as they are doing then yeah. Its routine accounting among different section of large businesses (and within governments for that matter). Whether that's someone in the store or someone in accounting at the store level is irrelevant to my question however.

The cost to the GW store is the cost of the product, plus some allocation of delivering it which would be calculated separately.

Aecus Decimus wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I think its important not to overlook customer loyalty. Building that can be difficult and maintaining is tough, but if you work hard you can build a loyal customerbase who might well accept that you don't have the glue in today, but that you'll get it in a few days with the regular order so they are fine to wait.

People will put money into things when they appreciate those who run them and understand that your store is there to make money and pay its bills.

Maybe, but from a business point of view it isn't good to be depending on what is essentially an act of charity. If I have a store hosting MTG events I don't need to rely on charity to make sales, I just set up some chairs and folding tables and tell the MTG whales they can use the space. An 8 person draft is 24 packs sold, add two packs per person to the entry fee for prize support and I sell 40 packs as a direct benefit for letting them use the space. Any additional purchases on top of that (and let's be honest, CCG whales always buy more stuff) are just a nice bonus. Yeah, I want a degree of loyalty to keep them coming in if there are other stores in the area but the transaction itself is desirable for the customer even without the feelings of charity. But it seems like with miniatures and RPGs most stores are depending entirely on having people feel guilty about using the space without paying and making a less-desirable transaction to "help the store".

(Cue the absurdity of GW employees begging customers to "help the store" and make their online orders through the store's PC so they count towards the employee's personal sales quota.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But, it shows the game off.

It does, but it's still essential to consider how to monetize the existing customers. In my experience in a non-GW store random traffic will occasionally get interest in a miniatures game and only very rarely will they ever turn into paying customers. Selling a starter box and some paints once every month or two isn't making much money from miniatures if the majority of players are non-customers, especially when a lot of those non-customers have a habit of suggesting their favorite online discount store to everyone who will listen.

In a GW store obviously the interest level will be higher, since the majority of people going into the store are either existing players or people who are going there specifically to become a customer, but then the employee's goal shifts from "what benefits the store" to "what benefits my personal sales quota" and you get perverse incentives like not wanting a customer to buy a pot of paint because buying a single small item hurts the employee's value per transaction metric.

Of course a store cannot run as a charity, but customer loyalty isn't so much about building charity. It's about building a relationship with your regular customers (and soon to be regulars) so that they are encouraged to make their purchases with your store over others. Consider that almost every online-only store can often beat prices for highstreet stores and even if not, if you are active in the hobby and spending you'll easily hit free postage which is cheaper for most than going into town and paying a parking fee etc....
So having loyalty and customers who are aware of things - eg the GW store staffer telling them that its helpful to the life of the store to order through the online booth in the store instead of at home - means customers who might well make choices with their purchases that favour the store.

It's a kind of mutual relationship - the store provides stock and space to play; acts as a local information and social hub; recruits new people; supports local events (either directly in the store or perhaps sponsors or at least advertises local groups) etc.... All of those are ways the store can build a relationship with their customers, no matter if its a wargame, board game, card game or whatever.


Again its less about begging and charity and more about simple respect and making sure that the store is offering more than just a till monkey and stock. I agree if a store manager is begging customers or is only reliant on guilting/charity purchases then something has gone seriously wrong or they have entirely the wrong approach. It's not about begging its about providing value outside of purely the price of the product. For hobbies that require game space and are social events there's even more opportunities if the store has the space.

Every game played in-store is still a form of free advertising.

You may not get the players buying something every time, but their shenanigans and enjoyment can encourage others to get involved.

Marry it to beginner sessions, and invite the curious to those? That’s where you start to find your pay off.

If you ensure you’re knowledgable about the games you carry, you can advise and engage. If someone lost a game, you’ve an opportunity to suggest a new unit which might cover something their current army lacks.

It’s not about guarantees, but its about spotting opportunities.

 JamesY wrote:
I used to work at the GW store in Nottingham city centre, which is considered a big store by the standards of the company. Before that I had been a store manager of a medium sized store- one of the bigger companies selling branded footwear. I happened to have done my induction training in the Nottingham branch. On a Saturday, the shoe shop took more money between 9-10am (the quietest hour) than the gw would make all day. They don't turn over much money at all, but as they only sell their own product, at least the profit margin is high. They make more than they cost to operate, but not by as much as other retailers would be prepared to accept.

What type of value are we talking about? Are they making at least $1000 in sales per day?

JadeDoo wrote:

 JamesY wrote:
I used to work at the GW store in Nottingham city centre, which is considered a big store by the standards of the company. Before that I had been a store manager of a medium sized store- one of the bigger companies selling branded footwear. I happened to have done my induction training in the Nottingham branch. On a Saturday, the shoe shop took more money between 9-10am (the quietest hour) than the gw would make all day. They don't turn over much money at all, but as they only sell their own product, at least the profit margin is high. They make more than they cost to operate, but not by as much as other retailers would be prepared to accept.

What type of value are we talking about? Are they making at least $1000 in sales per day?

Depends on the day, and the store.

Store I worked for would usually do £2,000 on Saturday and Sunday. But at that time it was monthly, not weekly releases, so it could vary. Mid-week was super swingy. Any night you had games on you’d of course take more. If it was the start of a new campaign, that too could up sales. Mondays and Tuesdays could be pretty dead, and you might struggle to take £200 each day.

Plus it depends how good the staff were at their job. Selling a pot of paint extra per sale doesn’t sound like much, but it soon added up. And it would usually be two or three little things being added on. Hobby essential here, novel there, copies of White Dwarf etc. Upselling is less “juice them for every penny” and more “just get them to spend a little extra”.

Beginners were of course easy to sell to. Just starting out, they needed more stuff. Key I found was during painting lessons etc, show how much difference using an appropriate brush makes. As you’re showing a technique or effect, line each paint up as you use it. Most of the time, the parent would buy one of each, and a new brush. Just keep in mind to show care. If you’re trying to sell brushes, ensure you’re telling kiddo how to be preserve them (don’t dunk the whole brush, make sure it’s rinsed properly, separate wash pot for metallics) as well as the difference each size makes.

If you want to sell a game and a bunch of models, having them played in store is advertising. Ideally you want amenable players with new well painted armies who will play new customers. How far down you go to people with 20 year old unpainted models who only play the same guy each week is up to you.

You don't always need this - many shops rely on others to advertise and hook people in, and sell to the resulting customers. The online model exemplifies this.

And there are so many variables on what you push, how you push it, what constitutes break even for you and so on. I have known a chap who had an all singing and dancing shop with all the customer engagement and retention tricks he could think of, and a guy who ran a shop within his parents shop so he could do his and his friends purchases at trade price (though with the minimum package I doubt he actually saved that much money ultimately).

Upside of wanting modern models on show? Players do tend to “age out” of playing in store.

A chunk of former beginners will go off to University, or get a job. Some will get a board for home, set up or join a club.

At least for GW Stores, who have more of a vested interest in showing off The Current Edition.

Should I get some 2nd Ed fans locally? Well most of not all 2nd Ed units still exist in one form or another. As part of my long gestating project, I’ve an Eldar army built around 2nd Ed, but using entirely modern models.

The upside for a FLGS is that 2nd Ed uses far, far fewer models. So anyone wanting to join in on the fun has a much lower price barrier, even at 2,000 points.

Whilst my FGLS has a patchy stock, I’m yet to ask if they’re willing to order in specific items (subject to availability of course). If they do, and anyone wants to get on board? I’ll happily promote that to them. Then it becomes a reciprocal relationship. They give us space to play games, we give them customers and money.

If it really takes off, I may end up persuading myself a Really Good Idea is to be a Big Richard Baller and get me a 2nd Ed ready force for every 2nd Ed Codex. Because it’s super affordable, and seems like a laugh!

I've seen stores that support their players, and one locally that I've heard will basically tell you to feth off if you want to play a non-GW game there (because they don't sell it). Yet another reason to me why the dominance of FLGS in the USA is bad for everyone, and the "gaming club" approach is way better. A huge reason why it's so hard for any game not named Warhammer to get traction is because in the US at least a lot of people will have the idea you shouldn't play a game you can't buy at your store (I've legit seen people say it was "disrespectful" to the store to do so), which basically means if it's not Warhammer then you're not "allowed" to play it or mention it. Utter rubbish.

A game store's purpose is basically to provide a playing space, not dictate what games are "allowed" to be played there.

Gaming stores aren't your clubhouse, nor your friend. They're there to sell you stuff.

On “if I don’t sell it, you don’t play it”, it’s a double edged sword.

On one hand, it’s their call and it does make sense. However large your venue, table space is still finite. And if you don’t carry that line? None of it is money in your till.

On the other? There is an argument that they didn’t buy from you, because you don’t sell that. So there’s a slight case of Chicken and Egg.

Of course, it’s not going to be as simple as “sell what folk play”. The manufacturer may not allow you to only order in bits and bobs here and there, instead insisting on a package of gubbins. That’s money out your till with no guarantee it’ll come back into it. If it’s an old game, with no modern stuff whatsoever, you may simply not be able to stock it. Or, it could be like Warmahordes in the U.K., where you cannot stock it for love nor money. Or the less extreme X-Wing in its first run prime, when restocks were few and far between.

Of course there’s a risk in stocking anything new. 40K might be a big seller - but that doesn’t mean Kill Team or Necromunda, or even Horus Heresy is Just Going To Sell Well Because 40k. Underworlds might be a popular game in your neck of the woods, but AoS itself proves a hard sell.

There you’d need to ask the question of why does X sell really well? And I strongly suspect whilst there will be common strands, that answer will vary store to store and territory to territory.

You need a savvy business mind, that’s for sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is where PP got it right with their Outriders (?) programme.

Essentially enthusiasts who go store to store demonstrating the game, engendering hype.

Players get hype for a new game with a different look. Shop owners are given a serious, free, hand in developing interest in the new game, ensuring any stock orders have grubby mitts waiting to shell out money for.

Take that away? And you’re on rockier ground for all parties.

A new game may have the best rules, the best models for the best price. But if I can’t get anyone else interested? I for one am skeptical about paying money for what might be destined just to gather dust until the game goes extinct.

From the store owners point of view, it’s even higher risk.

Let’s say Basic Stock Of New Game runs to £2,000.00. As ever numbers straight out my backside, purely for illustrative purposes.

I pay that £2,000.00, in the hope the game takes off.

Now that’s £2,000.00 on a risk, as opposed to spending £2,000.00 on stuff I can be about as confident as can be will sell. Which means one or more lines have to share the loss of that £2,000.00 investment.

If New Game doesn’t take off? Not only am I stuck with stock I struggle to sell, but the stuff I didn’t buy may have seen me lose custom from folk wanting to buy it, buying it elsewhere.

Risks within risks!

Space is a big factor on supporting games you don't sell. If you've only got 2 tables for model games you really can only afford to allow games that you sell to be on display and played on those tables.

If you've got 20 tables now you've a bit more room to be flexible. Perhaps you organise it so that there's a games-night and anyone can come play anything for a nominal fee of £5 per person or £30 for a years membership per person etc... So you're earning income off everyone no matter what game they play and there's enough room for everyone to be content.
You can then watch which games are popular that you don't stock and can make choices on that. If everyone starts playing Dystopian Wars and you don't carry it now you can follow the market and the players.

Meanwhile if you've only got 2 tables and everyone is playing Dystopian Wars and you don't stock it they might well just not come to your store.



So there's challenges with limited space and facilities which might make it harder to support many different games and forces a store to double down on a more limited roster. I believe this is another reason many double down on card games because they take up less room per playing pair.



And yep I think its no coincidence that when Warmachine ended their Press Ganger system their games marketing dropped off the deep end (along with other factors around that time).

Or, work it into your overall gaming plan.

Your tables are, presumably, there Seven Days A Week. They’re a resource, and should be treated as such.

Why not at least try an invitational. If you know a couple of locals have got into Dystopian Wars (to continue the theme) and you don’t currently carry it? Do a little research.

First, suss out how you might be able to stock it. Perhaps your distributor will let you just order in whatever it is you want.

Second? Play. The. Game. Your. Self. Let those locals show it off to you. Get a feel for it. Even if it’s not your bag, if you end up selling it, you’ll need to know it’s selling points all the same.

Third? Let those already playing run demo games on a couple of occasions, harnessing their enthusiasm and knowledge. See if it’s infectious by letting others decide.

If you can make this a regular thing, it can have a draw of its own. And in theory, open up whole new markets, allow you to carry a new line, and thus appeal to ever more wallets.

This of course works best if your supplier is OK with you to have Just The Basics as standard stock (core game, rules what have you) and allow Order On Demand for everything else. Do many do that? I’ve honestly no idea.

If it works, perhaps your Demo Guys, who have just done you a solid, get a temporary extra discount as a thank-you, if needs be. Or even just free table use, so many times a week, for a set period. Basically some tangible form of thanks for customers going above and beyond.

The majority of this discussion has revolved around Games workshop and Games workshop products.

If anyone would like to ask questions of an independent retailer, and especially one that focuses on online sales, I am free

Can only draw on my own experiences

But in the spirit of the thread?

1. Do you run more than store?

2. Which systems do you stock?

3. If you’ve ever dropped a line, what drove that decision?

4. In terms of stocking new lines, do you find your tied to set bundles, or do you have more freedom in that?

One thing I learned in small business, is that if your idea of a niche is low prices, you are doomed. Someone else can always do it cheaper than you.

All small business sales, shop front retail especially; is about relationships. How do you interact and connect with the customers and are you meeting their unexpressed needs?