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 Dysartes wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
It wouldn't make sense for miracle dice to be as good. It's not a miracle if it happens regularly and can be planned for...

On the other hand, if it were Fate that something were going to happen for the Eldar, why are dice involved?

The dice get turned into 6s which are successes? Which is as close to not using dice in a game of dice that you can get while still maintaining the dice game mechanism?

Not sure what your point is. The game already doesn't technically need dice for fate - you could just say that the result is converted to a critical success, but because the game is trying to be super technical in its writing, it prefers to use dice based descriptions.



EDIT: What i would argue is that miracles should happen less often, but be more powerful as a result. For instance, tally up the 6s a unit has rolled and if they exceed a threshold, a power is activated. The more 6s the more powerful.

You would then apply this to different tests with different thresholds - ie double 6s on a battleshock make every unit in your army within 6" of that unit auto pass battleshock in the next round, or something to that effect.



IMO GW have lost the connection between the story and the rules, they're now just inventing rules to make units different, rather than looking at what makes units different in the story and building rules around those.

I’ve been in a few games where tracking dice rolls for stuff like Miracle or Fate dice got a bit chaotic, especially when you need different types. A buddy showed me this virtual dice roll tool, and it’s pretty simple and lets you roll whatever type you need—good for when you’re mid-game and just want to keep things moving. Definitely makes those bigger games a bit smoother.

IMO GW have lost the connection between the story and the rules, they're now just inventing rules to make units different, rather than looking at what makes units different in the story and building rules around those.

Unfortunately, the designers are now more inclined to please the competitive gamers of the tournament crowd. These gamers prefer to use dice as little as possible to reduce the random element to their gaming. They also don't like too many rules across different factions as this increases the variables and makes building an all-comers list more difficult. In catering to this demographic, the flavour of the game has been diluted and unit individuality has, in my opinion, suffered. This is hugely apparent in an army such as Eldar because their units, by their very nature, were so diverse.

My opinion only of course. As always, YMMV.

KR

I think attributing the dislike of too much randomness to tournament players only is unfair and also not true

The entire category of low/no randomness games ( eurogames) is enjoyed partly for the "no randomness" aspect by pretty non competitive (and absolutely non tournament) people.

Some people just enjoy planning and strategizing more than watching things happen on their own and the game playing itself. These people prefer when game mechanisms are consistent in rewarding good moves and punishing bad ones.

I, for one, would love to see input randomness exlpored more in wargame designs.

Mine was a very broad brush statement I agree.
I started with Rogue Trader so I'm just a little bit jaded at watching the flavour and variety slowly get sucked out of the game over the years. Don't get me wrong, some early editions were so convoluted that some stuff had to go, big games could take a day or more to play lol. Rule bloat has very much been a thing in other editions.
I'm more a fluff-driven, narrative gamer so I guess it's a bit too easy blame tournament players but what I will say is, this game started as a dice game and the randomness of that premise is where the foundations of the game lie. I'm far too heavily invested to walk away now (4 armies and counting lol), but this particular version of the game is not it's best for me.

Edit*
Back on topic however. One of my armies is Craftworld Eldar and i regularly play a mate who has SOB. Our fights are always close with MD and FD both playing vital and sometimes pivotal parts. It's a fun dynamic and does add an element of suspense to the game as my stock dwindles and his grows. I agree with a previous poster in that the CE are bolstered by their ridiculous detachment ability of countless re-rolls, I look forward to our new 'Dex in the new year.

I know that they function a little differently, but my personal favourite of the dice as resources rule is actually the Blessings of Khorne dice from World Eaters.

The dice you roll provide a myriad of buffs, but because of their inconsistencies, you can't always guarantee what buff you're going to get every turn. It's flexible enough to allow some choice as many options overlap and you'll always get something, but not enough that you can guarantee you're going to get to use them in a specific way every turn.