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 Ghaz wrote:

F was the Odyssey-class vessel that was under the command of Fleet Admiral Shelby while the G was Constitution III-class vessel under the command of Captain Seven of Nine.

IIRC, G is the renamed USS Titan.

In a post inflationary environment

I don't think "post" is a word that I would include there...

The same Star Trek that was using 80 year Miranda and Excelsior class ships alongside the Akira and Defiant during the dominion war?

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
The same Star Trek that was using 80 year Miranda and Excelsior class ships alongside the Akira and Defiant during the dominion war?

Weren't they acknowledged in-universe to be cannon fodder thrown into the fight in an act of desperation because the Federation was running out of ships?

Well, put some updated phasers, photons and shield generators on it and a ship can go on for 200 years, look how the Klingons did it .

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
The same Star Trek that was using 80 year Miranda and Excelsior class ships alongside the Akira and Defiant during the dominion war?

Weren't they acknowledged in-universe to be cannon fodder thrown into the fight in an act of desperation because the Federation was running out of ships?

Maybe for fleet actions. They were still in general use though, even appearing in the fleet in the Voyager finale.

You can get a bit more of an idea about how it plays by this guy's video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjBILyzBZ5Q

Well that looks extremely tempting.

The fact the ships are in scale is a huge win and selling point here. I hope they keep at least a reasonable sense of that scale. Attack wing was meant to have three different sizes, but some ships were flat out wrong such as tiny original enterprise and huge birds of prey.

Interested to see how the combat feels, attack wing being based on x-wing (which in turn was a reskin of wings of war) was far to dog fighty which doesn't suit most of what we see in trek.

Those ships look great and I like the scale of the game.. but surely this is all moot because.. Wizkids?

As an early adopter of X-Wing 1.0, I had plenty of time to get used to FFG's distribution problems whereby popular ships would be out of stock for months at a time, with no sign of a reprint on FFG's schedule.. but that was nothing compared to Attack Wing! As someone who played HotAC and jumped ship in anticipation of Alliance, I was saddened by the lack of support and availability for that 'new' product and amazed to see how many Attack Wing ships are just not available anymore.. including ships you can use in the Alliance campaign. If you wanted to play Attack Wing proper? Forget about it unless you can buy a fleet off eBay.

So while the Wizkids D&D line is doing alright, I can't help but think it is taking up most of their manufacturing slots at the factory and their other ranges have had to fight for scraps. Adding another game into the mix - and a premium one at that? Yikes! I'm sure US distributors will get a 100 copies to share between them in the summer of 2024 and the UK / EU will get 50 copies in early 2025.. with a reprint scheduled some time for 2026

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
The same Star Trek that was using 80 year Miranda and Excelsior class ships alongside the Akira and Defiant during the dominion war?

Weren't they acknowledged in-universe to be cannon fodder thrown into the fight in an act of desperation because the Federation was running out of ships?

In more recent trek, without giving away too much, retrofitting with advanced drones to replace human crew and adding especially advanced AI piloting bridged the gap.

Offensive and defensive capabilities are the main sticking point though, Voyager finale is probably the best example of how much those change over time (although it's possible that future voyager tech was only the result of contact with species which were only met on the slow route back home, representing a much larger jump in tech levels).

I try not to think about problematic stuff introduced in Discovery and hope the whole thing gets alternate timeline retconned at some point.

Worth checking out the ruleset, I guess.

From a model/era standpoint, I'd personally like to see an Earth-Romulan War set (Daedalus-Class vs. OG Warbird frex)..

I started watching the demo video yesterday but got tired and went to bed. I'm not one for watching videos, much prefer to read my content, etc.

I am... anxious? to see and learn more. The game looks like its potentially extremely fiddly and complex, moreso than Armada even. The flip side of that is that in many ways this is the game I've been searching/hoping for for a long time now (though I tend to prefer fleet scale to just a handful of ships, but I'm probably not going to get the level of detail shown here in a fleet scale game).

Well the Dominion War is a good setting (relative to any others you can find in Star Trek) since it features a lot of different factions who frequently switch sides. But man are products like this too expensive. $150 for the models in the picture is just a lot of money. Not $50 for 7 kobolds bad, but not so far off that it seems viable at market.

One of the reasons I think SW Armada failed to last a long time was that the price was just too much for most people, especially at FFG introduced Minimum Advertised Pricing shortly after it came out. I probably spent $300 on Armada wave one stuff, but part of that was two core sets for $100 total because Amazon sold everything FFG made at 50% off all the time. If this Star Trek starter was $80 on Amazon all the time, it would sell pretty well. But it won't be so it'll struggle from release.

 Siygess wrote:
Those ships look great and I like the scale of the game.. but surely this is all moot because.. Wizkids?

As an early adopter of X-Wing 1.0, I had plenty of time to get used to FFG's distribution problems whereby popular ships would be out of stock for months at a time, with no sign of a reprint on FFG's schedule.. but that was nothing compared to Attack Wing! As someone who played HotAC and jumped ship in anticipation of Alliance, I was saddened by the lack of support and availability for that 'new' product and amazed to see how many Attack Wing ships are just not available anymore.. including ships you can use in the Alliance campaign. If you wanted to play Attack Wing proper? Forget about it unless you can buy a fleet off eBay.

So while the Wizkids D&D line is doing alright, I can't help but think it is taking up most of their manufacturing slots at the factory and their other ranges have had to fight for scraps. Adding another game into the mix - and a premium one at that? Yikes! I'm sure US distributors will get a 100 copies to share between them in the summer of 2024 and the UK / EU will get 50 copies in early 2025.. with a reprint scheduled some time for 2026

Wizkid games have always been pump n' dump, unfortunately. From the experience I've had with their past products they put a lot of stuff onto the market very quickly, but the rules tend to suffer for lack of quality control/playtesting. When they finally fix it with a version 2.0 in a year or two, with the exception of Heroclix, the line always seems to die. I had not experienced any problem getting Star Trek attack wing product with the exception of the Reliant, which I just recently found out I never got a copy of it (it was in wave 1 or 2). I'm hoping that a lot more than their usual effort has gone into this system's design - though the playthrough video I found hard to watch because the ship sheet is sooo busy (3 dials of information + cards + a packed ship sheet to boot - just for a tiny ship like the Defiant?)

Don't get me wrong, I'm still buying this for the great looking ships - but the game portion looks hideously complex.

What I can say, based on what was going on @Wizkids when my partner left, is that the company reorganized a little bit in a manner that may make the mechanical issues (quality control/playtesting) less of an issue. They now have a dedicated miniatures gaming team (well, a miniatures game person at least, I believe he has a dedicated team under him but I'm not 100% on that) led by an industry vet.

Whether or not the overall business practices associated with their tendency to operate in a "pump and dump" manner changes, I cannot say, but I would hope having a dedicated miniature gaming director would be able to influence the business policy decisions to get timely restocks, though there may be some teething issues.

Wizkids manages two of the more popular collectable miniature ranges in the world: D&D and Heroclix.

I have second hand information that the design team has done a lot better for their most recent games than prior to the new team coming in.

Product availability has not really been an issue for a long time with WK AFAIK.

Does that mean they are infallible? No. But a lot of the previous concerns just aren't there any more.

Do with this info what you will

I hope it's not too fiddly. I really want a fleet sized game and armada isn't quite there. Granted that it's the same designer I'm probably SOL but I'd really love a good fleet sized game for either star wars, star trek, or bloody 40k.

 rybackstun wrote:
Wizkids manages two of the more popular collectable miniature ranges in the world: D&D and Heroclix.

I have second hand information that the design team has done a lot better for their most recent games than prior to the new team coming in.

Product availability has not really been an issue for a long time with WK AFAIK.

Does that mean they are infallible? No. But a lot of the previous concerns just aren't there any more.

Do with this info what you will

I'd say product availabity is very different between USA and rest of the world. Things appear about half a year later and when they do you better get them fast before they're gone.
Rules themselves are good though. Which is ironic, Attack Wing had a really strong start with Events and massive support everywhere but the cards in new packs where all over the place. Since 2nd Edition every pack is spot on but you can hardly get it and they're usually released much later than planned.

It's nice to see new ship models and not just the 18th existing model metallic clix/STAW repaint release in a row. I'll have to watch the video to see the mechanics so don't have any opinion on that.

 Hulksmash wrote:
I hope it's not too fiddly. I really want a fleet sized game and armada isn't quite there. Granted that it's the same designer I'm probably SOL but I'd really love a good fleet sized game for either star wars, star trek, or bloody 40k.

Could be the designer has taken the lessons of Armada, so arguably this will be the formula perfected?

So a fleet battle based game with individual character/bridge positions? I understand why they're doing that give the character based scifi drama that classic trek was but I'm not confident it's a good idea for that scale tabletop game.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
I hope it's not too fiddly. I really want a fleet sized game and armada isn't quite there. Granted that it's the same designer I'm probably SOL but I'd really love a good fleet sized game for either star wars, star trek, or bloody 40k.

Could be the designer has taken the lessons of Armada, so arguably this will be the formula perfected?

It definitely does not appear to be a fleet sized game, unless it comes with some really clever squadroning rules. This really looks like another Armada-esque "naval skirmish" style game.

so the spikybits article states that the presenter described the Enterprise D figure as being 6 inch long.
https://spikeybits.com/2023/09/star-trek-into-the-unknown-starter-set-game-details-revealed.html?expand_article=1

which with the galaxy class being 641 meters long, puts the scale for it around 1:4200

this is close enough to the Star Fleet Battles Starline 2400 scale of 1:3788, and the FASA STCS miniatures scale of 1:3900 that you could probably mix and match and not look too odd. especially if they are using a sliding scale to some degree.

I've seen nobody mention it, but the Enterprise D is a strange choice for a Dominion War game, considering it was destroyed before the war really started. It would make more sense for that galaxy class to be the Venture. If they wanted to add an Enterprise, the E would have been the better choice, as it was around at the time.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I've seen nobody mention it, but the Enterprise D is a strange choice for a Dominion War game, considering it was destroyed before the war really started. It would make more sense for that galaxy class to be the Venture. If they wanted to add an Enterprise, the E would have been the better choice, as it was around at the time.

A true Trekkie!!!

I like the theory that movie TNG is actually a parallel universe where Picard is a reckless, emotional, psychopathic action hero, as referenced in the episode Parallels. This could explain some of the discrepancies in the timeline of the game.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I've seen nobody mention it, but the Enterprise D is a strange choice for a Dominion War game, considering it was destroyed before the war really started. It would make more sense for that galaxy class to be the Venture. If they wanted to add an Enterprise, the E would have been the better choice, as it was around at the time.

have we actually had confirmation it is the Ent D or is it possible who ever reporting it is just using that as short hand?

The ship card on the video just said Defiant Class Escort, so it's probably just a Galaxy class

I would assume that the game will include "title cards" or whatever ala Armada. I.E. "this 5 point upgrade makes your galaxy class into the USS Enterprise, which has this extra special ability"

On the con example video I saw the Defiant did have its name written on the ship model in the standard style, with the registry numbers too. For the first second I thought that was kind of limiting, but really they just want to sell people expensive models of the ships, and people mostly will want to buy expensive models of the ships. People will want to buy an Enterprise D, so why mess that up. Only saw the Defiant in the video though for anyone wondering about confirmation.