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For me it's the same as most of life these days. The needs of the shareholder outweighs that of the customer. As a result, the workers making the games are worse off as they are paid less and the customer gets a significantly worse product. Nobody wins except those parasites.

 Olthannon wrote:
For me it's the same as most of life these days. The needs of the shareholder outweighs that of the customer. As a result, the workers making the games are worse off as they are paid less and the customer gets a significantly worse product. Nobody wins except those parasites.

It's not even the shareholders. Or atleast i am unsure that'd they be happy to be informed that they facilitate underage gambling.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
For me it's the same as most of life these days. The needs of the shareholder outweighs that of the customer. As a result, the workers making the games are worse off as they are paid less and the customer gets a significantly worse product. Nobody wins except those parasites.

It's not even the shareholders. Or atleast i am unsure that'd they be happy to be informed that they facilitate underage gambling.

They don't care in the slightest as long as their shares go up.

Major shareholder firms and people typically only care about the numbers going up. As soon as the numbers slow down going up or stop going up; they jump ship. Which often causes the share numbers to suddenly go down even though the parent firm is doing nothing wrong and is in a healthy position.

GW had that just after most of the pandemic because their record rising sales slowed down and the share value stopped skyrocketing; prompting a sell off.


It's why the stock market is such a pain because it doesn't reflect reality. It's also purely a game of growing money through investment and thus demands constant rising profits. Which makes CEO's and firms bend over backwards to appears the share value (esp as they are often heavily invested too); which all amounts to very short term non-customer focused thinking.

That kind of thinking only works short term and every firm that chases it eventually burns out at some stage. The other thing is when firms ignore the shareholders and focus on the actual customers they can suddenly see direct rising profits because - shock horror - they are actually paying attention to their actual core customers.

 Olthannon wrote:
For me it's the same as most of life these days. The needs of the shareholder outweighs that of the customer. As a result, the workers making the games are worse off as they are paid less and the customer gets a significantly worse product. Nobody wins except those parasites.

This is actually the fault of those who are feeding bad information to the shareholders, not the shareholders themselves.

As you say, the shareholders just want "numbers go up". They and the company will then employ people to find out what will make "Numbers go up".

These people who they then hire are the ones to blame for the predatory practices. Since they are the ones who are recommending loot boxes, insertion of whatever the flavor of the month propaganda is right now, etc...

This is why Disney is in a tailspin, they hired people with agendas to find out how to make money. And when its not making money...


The truth is that what actually makes "Numbers go up" is whatever the customers want. The issue is that the middle man between developers/shareholders often doesn't actually tell them what the customers actually want, but rather what the middle man wants.

I mean you can say it's not the shareholders but regardless of the specifics it's still the system at fault. There is no "purity" that would remove middlemen getting their cut. Something else would take their place.

People decry the current state of video games but it's because the industry is big enough that the system has incorporated it.

The common line "why can one guy in a basement make a better game than a AAA company?" well it's this.

 Olthannon wrote:
I mean you can say it's not the shareholders but regardless of the specifics it's still the system at fault. There is no "purity" that would remove middlemen getting their cut. Something else would take their place.

People decry the current state of video games but it's because the industry is big enough that the system has incorporated it.

The common line "why can one guy in a basement make a better game than a AAA company?" well it's this.

It’s also that a lot of these games are still selling, all these games that *gamers* hate are selling great considering.
Disney movies are still selling well, they make bad movies and they make good movies.
Different people want to exist in gaming, and play stories that relate to them. And lots of players want to play stories with casts of different backgrounds as finding that diversity ads a lot to stories.
Especially in genres more story driven like RPGs and the story action game that’s really made a resurgence lately.

People want this, and there is more alternative than ever, but a large enough portion of men don’t seem to like that others want things that maybe are different.

Actually statistically that is untrue apple.

The current push is known to alienate the old demographic and not speak to the new demographic aswell. Hence flopbuster became a thing.

For movies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkVX0vG6aT0

1 hour and 9 minutes to onwards. And yes this is movies, but considering how many games got pushed out, like the recent suicide squad with the same "diversity" nonsense yeah no,

Yeah, while it is pretty much impossible for a major studio using an existing IP to flop in the sense of flops 15-20 years ago, the definition of flop has somewhat changed though.

Disney is losing money hand over fist. High profile AAA games get released to large purchase numbers, and these numbers are what gets trumpeted. But what you don't see are the return numbers on Steam the week after and the long term engagement.

As Not Online says, it alienates the old demographic and doesn't speak to the new one either. And on top of it, the new demographic simply doesn't have the numbers to make up even if they did actually buy the game.

This is also a slow burn issue, not one you can see in a single release. Consumers who don't pay attention to marketing or keep their fingers on the pulse of gaming or entertainment won't know that the new game coming out is going to flop. They will blindly buy a game on brand loyalty alone. But they will lose their brand loyalty after a couple of stinkers.

The end result is that the bad games will still sell a lot of copies, and may technically even qualify as a success. But the damage has been done and will not be seen till the next game is released when all those customers just don't buy because they got burned last time.

Look at Marval. A quiet slide into the nursing home of dead franchises from the absolute pinnacle of cinema, burning all the money earned along the way.

My pet hate is games being released without being properly playtested.
Nearly every game over last couple of years has been so full of bugs it's ridiculous. It seems like companies are selling the games knowing there are problems but wait for error reports coming in large amounts before anything is done about it.

Jaxmeister wrote:
My pet hate is games being released without being properly playtested.
Nearly every game over last couple of years has been so full of bugs it's ridiculous. It seems like companies are selling the games knowing there are problems but wait for error reports coming in large amounts before anything is done about it.

"We'll fix it in post!"

Not Online!!! wrote:
Actually statistically that is untrue apple.

The current push is known to alienate the old demographic and not speak to the new demographic aswell. Hence flopbuster became a thing.

For movies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkVX0vG6aT0

1 hour and 9 minutes to onwards. And yes this is movies, but considering how many games got pushed out, like the recent suicide squad with the same "diversity" nonsense yeah no,

Plenty of games and movies do great, and there are other demographics that exist. And they are buying games, it also sets aside that making the most money is not the only scale to follow.

Even the sex sells is easy to see through, where it’s easy to extract money from a small player base when you’re charging $20 for a sexy skin.

Also the diversity nonsense is literally that people other than you exist, and want to have things.
They want to make things and read things, and play things.
They Sony leak showed there diverse games selling fantastic, with Steller blade doing super well likely with the heavy china push. That Sony was even talking about for months.
The suicide squad game seems to have failed on being a bad game, which is fine.

Not Online!!! wrote:
For movies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkVX0vG6aT0

1 hour and 9 minutes to onwards. And yes this is movies, but considering how many games got pushed out, like the recent suicide squad with the same "diversity" nonsense yeah no,

Goodness. 2 hours is an awful long time to spend screaming 'Girls Are Bad, actually!' into the void. I'll pass on the video, and just mention that 'diversity', which has always been present in the Suicide Squad in other media, is not even remotely the problem with the current game.

 insaniak wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
For movies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkVX0vG6aT0

1 hour and 9 minutes to onwards. And yes this is movies, but considering how many games got pushed out, like the recent suicide squad with the same "diversity" nonsense yeah no,

Goodness. 2 hours is an awful long time to spend screaming 'Girls Are Bad, actually!' into the void. I'll pass on the video, and just mention that 'diversity', which has always been present in the Suicide Squad in other media, is not even remotely the problem with the current game.

not my issue that you take issue with a female sociologist. That statement says more about you than me. NVM TLOU2, BF series and even cod going down that way says also that yes, it is an issue. NVM propagating historical falsehoods of actual achievements in the case of BF 5 f.e.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Apple fox wrote:


Plenty of games and movies do great, and there are other demographics that exist. And they are buying games, it also sets aside that making the most money is not the only scale to follow.

Pardon, but we are talking about companies, not the state, nor the church.

Even the sex sells is easy to see through, where it’s easy to extract money from a small player base when you’re charging $20 for a sexy skin.

Also the diversity nonsense is literally that people other than you exist, and want to have things.

paradoxically that is not the type of diversity i take issue with. But willfull misrepresentation of my point won't help you anyways.

They want to make things and read things, and play things.
They Sony leak showed there diverse games selling fantastic, with Steller blade doing super well likely with the heavy china push. That Sony was even talking about for months.
The suicide squad game seems to have failed on being a bad game, which is fine.

Stellar blade does super well because it remained true to it's audience and is a well done game. That is not diversity, contrary it is anti-diversity in the sense that we got back to a design ethos that the usual suspects pushing also certain other narratives dislike. Namely Women looking sexy in video games.I couldn't care less that the charachters are koreans. In fact i welcome it that they are in a korean game.

I take issue with the BF 5 approach, like female frontline soldiers or the nice little norway heavy water issue. The random exchange of race of established characters. Basically things that damage established lore and by extentsion integrity of said lore.Or history when more egregious.

Dunno if it’s still a thing. We might’ve grown out of it as a species, or I’m just like too old and too far removed from its natural habitat. But weird tribalism over your choice of platform.

For instance, a historical one which is just so, so stupid. Some mild swears and a truly ridiculous fake accent.

If you can make it to the end in a single sitting without vomiting your brain out your eyes, or cringing so hard you get wedged in a corner? Fix yourself a grown up drink, you’ll have earned it. I’m off the sauce for now in solidarity with a friend who’s given up sweets, so I could only risk a few seconds. I cringed my way through my mattress, and now I’m jammed under it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyufDxxWIsM

It is silly, because they're all console trash. Unworthy to lick the boots of the PC master race and I think they have all come to that realization. Quiet little serfs who don't disturb us anymore.

/jk... mostly

But seriously, I think it probably helps that there isn't as much exclusivity with games now. Games are more commonly released on multiple platforms not just exclusive to one. The last bit of exclusivity hopefully goes away soon and dies horribly. Its always annoying to have to wait a year or so to get access to a game because its exclusive to one specific thing.

Exclusivity is a right pain. I think the whole console wars thing died out with the 360 and the ps3 except for a few weird try hards.

Sony have certainly been the worst for it, there's a few games I've always wanted to play but never had the opportunity. Good games I'm sure but not worth the extra 500 quid pricetag of having to buy a console to play them.

I read recently that Sony are already calling time on the PS5 and it barely lasted.

I think console makers are realising that as consoles have gone up in price its become more and more of a brand war than an exclusives war. Having two or three top exclusive games these days is NOT enough to pull people over. If a customer has a single current gen console that's what they've got.

So you either accept that and lose them as customers or decide to multi-platform and get them anyway.


What might do consoles well is the rising prices of PCs after the pandemic - yes everything else went up too - but it might be that with things like higher end graphics cards now costing as much as a decent whole gaming pc; consoles might see a resurge in popularity.


It looks increasingly like we'll end up with more cross platform general releases; a handful of timed exclusive releases and then perhaps one or two total exclusives.


The only company that isn't playing that game are Nintendo and they've always done their own thing. I think it also works because the Switch brings just enough different things and the mobile option and all that it just about stands apart from being a "regular console". Though I think Nintendo really need to get on and get a new version of it on the market

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Dunno if it’s still a thing. We might’ve grown out of it as a species, or I’m just like too old and too far removed from its natural habitat. But weird tribalism over your choice of platform.

More echo chambers and less meaningful difference between platforms.

Though I did recently see a well researched and quite deliberately inaccurate comparison video between the 40 year old atari 8 bit and commodore machines so the spirit lives on.

Hopefully the quote works right.

Not Online!!! wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Apple fox wrote:


Plenty of games and movies do great, and there are other demographics that exist. And they are buying games, it also sets aside that making the most money is not the only scale to follow.

Pardon, but we are talking about companies, not the state, nor the church.

Even the sex sells is easy to see through, where it’s easy to extract money from a small player base when you’re charging $20 for a sexy skin.

Also the diversity nonsense is literally that people other than you exist, and want to have things.

paradoxically that is not the type of diversity i take issue with. But willfull misrepresentation of my point won't help you anyways.

They want to make things and read things, and play things.
They Sony leak showed there diverse games selling fantastic, with Steller blade doing super well likely with the heavy china push. That Sony was even talking about for months.
The suicide squad game seems to have failed on being a bad game, which is fine.

Stellar blade does super well because it remained true to it's audience and is a well done game. That is not diversity, contrary it is anti-diversity in the sense that we got back to a design ethos that the usual suspects pushing also certain other narratives dislike. Namely Women looking sexy in video games.I couldn't care less that the charachters are koreans. In fact i welcome it that they are in a korean game.

I take issue with the BF 5 approach, like female frontline soldiers or the nice little norway heavy water issue. The random exchange of race of established characters. Basically things that damage established lore and by extentsion integrity of said lore.Or history when more egregious.

I haven’t played BF5 assuming that means battlefield but that’s not usually the type of language used like that, that would be more historical accuracy which has been fairly lose all throughout gaming.
Like call of duty is basically a fantasy throughout most of its history. So if I am understanding you, then I can agree.

But there are actually several times women have been on the front lines, in WW2 with both the Russian and Germans. War just is messy for so many reasons.
There is also that both Battlefield and call of duty franchise have Military backing as they want it to look like a good path for people into military recruitment.

Also I would love more Historical games, but I would ask if you do take the same stance when in almost all media all minorities have faced erasure through history. Including Race, gender, sexuality. It’s actually really common.

With Disney and the little mermaid the original animated was a huge departure from the original work.


Stellar blade is selling well likely because it looks interesting, but it isn’t out yet so it could be a disaster of game. But my issue with it is the way men acting.
The discussion of sexualisation is that it’s not healthy the way so many men consume it, and push it out into public constantly. And the constant use of it to manipulate men, often against women.
I was looking at Steller blade on YouTube and like every video on it is full of sexism and they mostly don’t even talk about the game, but they certainly hate other successful games with Women in them. How many of them use the word ugly to describe what would be attractive women in almost all descriptions, how they also weave that into how they talk about women in the industry designing them as well.

Also side note, Moon channel on YouTube has a 2 part series on what’s happening in Korea that’s really good in trying to explain it. More focused on gacha games, but it’s fairly depressing.



Onto happier discussion!


Exclusives in games are interesting since if the big 3 are looking to put money down for great exclusive games, then it drives competition and the desire for them to find niches for games that may not be viable without a big publisher that’s willing to risk a loss.
Even if Sony is putting games out of PC eventually now.
Games like Gravity Rush(Daze) 1&2 probably wouldn’t exist without it, and that would make me sad.

I have a PlayStation, PC and 2 Switches for Pokémon, I have so many games to play, exclusivity even if had to pick one I would still have a huge pile that grows far too fast.

 Overread wrote:
... games should be bound to ESDF not WASD.

WASD is for people who don't touch type!

Never have I more wholeheartedly agreed with someone on this forum!

 Overread wrote:

What might do consoles well is the rising prices of PCs after the pandemic - yes everything else went up too - but it might be that with things like higher end graphics cards now costing as much as a decent whole gaming pc; consoles might see a resurge in popularity.

I don't think PCs have really gone up in relation to consoles, just look at the price of a PS5. Not to mention the availability, new consoles are always difficult to actually find.

If anything, I expect the price of consoles to increase much faster than entry level PCs.

Yeah the highest end graphics cards are always very expensive, but the mid range cards are becoming better values. You can get better performance out of a $6-700 graphics card now than you could out of a $1500 one only a few years ago relatively speaking.

Honestly the high end cards are a bit of a ripoff in terms of performance for expense. Nobody needs those stats unless you are playing on maximum settings while also streaming in 4k and running a bunch of other process in the background.

I stick to consoles, because I can’t be doing with worrying if my kit can play a given game. Sure I miss out Mods and that, but that doesn’t bother me.

Must renew my Nintendo Online this month. So many genuinely still fun classic games in need of playing.

Anyways, the topic! Games being hyped, and the controversy about them, whether real or manufactured. Might just be Old Man Syndrome, but I’m perfectly capable of deciding what I do and don’t want to play.

Heh i stick to PC games and play mostly strategy games and usually turn based stuff because i'm too old for all that twitch-reaction stuff that rts playing for like starcraft 2 have. Those people are way too fast with actions per minute. My mid-30's reaction time and hand movements just can't keep up.

What i don't like are FPS games and cartoony graphics in games like Fortnite or the Fortnite/PUBG style battle royale games.

Honestly even rpg's were annoying me a bit before the Culture War crap. Here's another 15 minute cut scene or another half hour or more of just talking to characters. Oh joy.

Here are your Actions/Choices Matter! games where mostly the ending ends up fairly similar and maybe some minor differences. I heard the original Mass Effect games may have made some choices actually matter but the game still mostly just ends with 4 different endings. In Deus Ex: Human Revolution (which i adore to death) the game ends with a bunch of endings but then Mankind Divided they all have just one Ending chosen and nothing you did in the previous one really matters to what's going on in the sequel. Did you choose a kill mostly every enemy build or were you stealth and non-lethal only? How'd you handle various situations where someone could live or die? None of that matters in the sequel.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

I'll admit aydin paladin videos are a bit long for my tastes and a bit dry but i did watch the amount Not Online said (1 hour and 9 mins onward) and i don't remember anything it said remotely saying "Girls Are Bad" so much as saying "Girls say they like the Girl boss character but really actually don't watch it as has been declared by multiple studies." Also the few studies that said otherwise were done by a person that was extremely new and often mis-represented things.

It's rather interesting a mod would character assassinate that badly but i'm used to that with the culture war these days and people in general.

No character assassination involved. I checked the link, which was to a 2 hour long video entitled 'No One Likes a Girl Boss', considered the fact that the grown woman and the two girls that I live with very much do like a girl boss (as do I), and decided the video was unlikely to contain any useful information worth wasting that much time on.



And yes, I've seen various articles claiming that research supports the idea that people don't want women as movie or game leads as much as they say they do, in direct contradiction of the movie and game properties over the last several decades that have been massive while featuring a female lead, and can't help thinking that said studies are not capturing the whole picture in a society where a disproportionate number of decisions on what to watch or play are made by men. I strongly suspect that the research will look very different in another decade or so, when the generation of kids growing up now with more diverse representation are old enough to make their own viewing choices.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
What i don't like are FPS games and cartoony graphics in games like Fortnite or the Fortnite/PUBG style battle royale games. .

I love FPS games. But after checking it out a few years back, decided Fortnite was very much not my jam. The building just annoyed the hell out of me. It's a cool concept, but the ability to throw up structures almost instantaneously in the middle of a firefight is just ... no.

Although on the FPS front, I also really dislike games allowing you to jump around like a demented jackrabbit while actively shooting. There needs to be a massive hit to your accuracy while jumping, and there should be some sort of stamina level that puts a limit on how many times in a row you can jump six feet in the air while running about.


Although Destiny gets a pass on that front by turning the jumping into falling with style.

I'm going to agree on the "jumping like a jackrabbit" in FPS with actual human players. It's one of those areas where an AI bot might not be as smart but it plays within the realistic realms of the setting and creates the right atmosphere; whilst a human player can play very very well to a high degree of game skill, but it loses immersion.

It's the same as some of the click-fest tactics used in Starcraft games such as rapid clicking to move units so that they fire, move, fire, move, fire move etc.... to maximise damage output whilst moving away to get a few extra shots on something like a close combat unit.

Realistic - actually honestly yes - but super gamey and somewhat a nightmare of clicking (seriously just watching some pro players and I think they should be just given auto-clickers because they are clicking so madly I feel like I'll get RSI just watching let alone what its doing to their hand)

Apple fox wrote:


I haven’t played BF5 assuming that means battlefield but that’s not usually the type of language used like that, that would be more historical accuracy which has been fairly lose all throughout gaming.
Like call of duty is basically a fantasy throughout most of its history. So if I am understanding you, then I can agree.

No, it's the diversity push, like the black anne boleyn type of deal. BF 5 had a lot of that. Contrary to BF 1 which did an amazing job with the sole exception of the black Schutztruppe sniper class in the solely focused on the european sphere battles for the german side. Though we sadly didn't get the africa campaign at all there in which Askari type units actually fought and did so incredibly well. Which is a shame.

But there are actually several times women have been on the front lines, in WW2 with both the Russian and Germans. War just is messy for so many reasons.

still a massive exception and bf 1 did it again better than 5 on that front with it's representation of the Womens battalion of death for the provisional russian government forces while excluding it from the Red army f.e. and as a tribute in the correct frontline.

There is also that both Battlefield and call of duty franchise have Military backing as they want it to look like a good path for people into military recruitment.

Bf didn't have that afaik and on COD it sponsored tournaments until 3 years ago...

Also I would love more Historical games, but I would ask if you do take the same stance when in almost all media all minorities have faced erasure through history. Including Race, gender, sexuality. It’s actually really common.

see above. Do it correctly and i don't have an issue. Do it for ESG money and or Agenda pushing and i will have an issue.

With Disney and the little mermaid the original animated was a huge departure from the original work.

In essence the departure was a happy end. Not massive rewriting. The obvious for agenda pushing replacement of race though (as have multiple interviews afterwards shown) is though. And with the even more funny instance of Rachel Ziegler and the 7 "dwarfs" it was all the more clear as to why it is and was happening. News flash, the actual cultures the baseline came from didn't like it.

Stellar blade is selling well likely because it looks interesting, but it isn’t out yet so it could be a disaster of game. But my issue with it is the way men acting.
The discussion of sexualisation is that it’s not healthy the way so many men consume it, and push it out into public constantly. And the constant use of it to manipulate men, often against women.
I was looking at Steller blade on YouTube and like every video on it is full of sexism and they mostly don’t even talk about the game, but they certainly hate other successful games with Women in them. How many of them use the word ugly to describe what would be attractive women in almost all descriptions, how they also weave that into how they talk about women in the industry designing them as well.

Also side note, Moon channel on YouTube has a 2 part series on what’s happening in Korea that’s really good in trying to explain it. More focused on gacha games, but it’s fairly depressing.

Korea has it's issues and part of that is an absurd polarisation. Combine that with western gaming media which increasingly made itself obsolete and a scene that will regard it from it's own viewpoint with their issues and you get funny algorithmical echochambers going and you will get a hyperbolic discussion.

Actually i do believe you did character assassinate. You character assassinated everybody on the other side and didn't even see what the video was about and assumed it. I mean i could say you hate all white men regardless of what they do and who they are and that doesn't make it true (at least i hope it's not true). I get that you might like a Girl Boss however not everywhere has Big City values (at least in the West). I realize you have to watch something and like something but understand that if you're going for that much loved global market most people in that globe don't have Big City values from the West.

Also after not watching a 2 hour or so video on that why should i waste my time on any video from your side or a movie i don't think is meant for me. For instance that last Terminator movie your side was all in love with. Personally i might watch some of the things. For instance my half sister who is considerably right wing watched the barbie movie and thought it was stupid and honestly i think i'd agree from what little i saw. I dunno how much of it is woke it just looked like a faceless musical and not really something i'd care about. I find that crap boring overall unless it's like the Rocky Horror Picture Show or Hamilton or something. Considering there are good musicals with a point maybe Barbie even failed in that category though. I suppose it was also marketed for children though.

Making massive? Didn't the Marvels flop really hard as did most comic book movies and shows? I mean it could be too much comic book entertainment in such a short time but that happened with Star Wars too. Perhaps your definition of woke or diverse is different from what i see. I don't mind characters like Blade or Static Shock. I'd just mind if the character like say Black Panther which is basically Captain Africa (as if these nations are all united which isn't remotely true). Some people (even black people) dislike Miles Morales for being a copy/paste of spiderman but with a black character although i've heard people on my side mixed on this view and some like Miles Morales.

Also woke stuff we dislike include: Velma (or any race swapped character when it's done too frequently and only in one direction. Green lantern being black worked way back because it was a new character picking up the mantle and they didn't make political speeches and they didn't race swap everybody) or even worse make historical figures race swapped (How would you feel if someone made Martin Luther King Jr. white. It's wrong in historical context and i'd only excuse if you came from a culture that didn't have that race when making the movie.), some shows which make every character gay one dimensional cut-outs whose personality is either "is gay" or "stereotypically gay" and if you dislike them for being stereotypes somehow you're a bigot (character depth is key), most of the marvel slop in the titled MsheU (which seems to mostly be doing terribly) and some others.

However maybe an issue is the writers just can't write anymore. That is indeed possible. However maybe they just push politics without criticizing both sides and/or showing the points of each. South Park insults everybody and makes good points while being funny and people love it.

As far as me personally i think SVU (sexual victims unit) show where a woman was raped by a black man and didn't want to press charges because it'd harm black people or something was nuts. I'll be honest and i didn't fully watch that one but i've seen cop shows where they make "Right Wing Bad" in every way and "Cops, Left Wing and Black people good" for some strange reason forgetting BLM defunded the police and there's always been a bit of tension among both. Add to it that the Right Wing likes or at least liked cops and watches cop shows and suddenly you've completely dis-owned and insulted your fan-base for a bunch of people that actually hate your type of show and everything about those people. Not a very smart move.

I think the important thing to realize on both ends is movies and games try to appeal now to like 50% of the Western World (or at least heavily edit for the rest of the world and often neuter things like the wokeness in them). While that works for Big Cities in the West it doesn't really work anywhere else in the world. Perhaps having a more global message everybody could enjoy would be good like the importance of family or heroism.

--------

Sorry i went on a rant and maybe went off topic a bit.

Back on topic yeah i absolutely agree Starcraft click-fests are not my thing. I'm getting too old for RTS games or FPS games these days. I need to do stuff like Terra Invicta or Xcom or more turn based stuff. It's not bad but my aging reflexes won't hold me back as much.

Not online is wanting to get me into Hearts of Iron 4 a little but it's just so frustrating for me. Couldn't be worse than being forced to play france or poland though i suppose as a major nation. The British are a good go to but man fighting Solo for so long is just frustrating when you do the historical path. Shame i'm not the HoI4 god he is. Guess i need to practice when i can be bothered.

Also agreed on the Fort part of Fortnite. I still can't stand the cartoony vibes though. I think Apex Legends may have been ok but i'm just not into FPS. It just isn't my thing.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Also I would love more Historical games, but I would ask if you do take the same stance when in almost all media all minorities have faced erasure through history. Including Race, gender, sexuality. It’s actually really common.

see above. Do it correctly and i don't have an issue. Do it for ESG money and or Agenda pushing and i will have an issue.

With Disney and the little mermaid the original animated was a huge departure from the original work.

In essence the departure was a happy end. Not massive rewriting. The obvious for agenda pushing replacement of race though (as have multiple interviews afterwards shown) is though. And with the even more funny instance of Rachel Ziegler and the 7 "dwarfs" it was all the more clear as to why it is and was happening. News flash, the actual cultures the baseline came from didn't like it.

Stellar blade is selling well likely because it looks interesting, but it isn’t out yet so it could be a disaster of game. But my issue with it is the way men acting.
The discussion of sexualisation is that it’s not healthy the way so many men consume it, and push it out into public constantly. And the constant use of it to manipulate men, often against women.
I was looking at Steller blade on YouTube and like every video on it is full of sexism and they mostly don’t even talk about the game, but they certainly hate other successful games with Women in them. How many of them use the word ugly to describe what would be attractive women in almost all descriptions, how they also weave that into how they talk about women in the industry designing them as well.

Also side note, Moon channel on YouTube has a 2 part series on what’s happening in Korea that’s really good in trying to explain it. More focused on gacha games, but it’s fairly depressing.

Korea has its issues and part of that is an absurd polarisation. Combine that with western gaming media which increasingly made itself obsolete and a scene that will regard it from it's own viewpoint with their issues and you get funny algorithmical echochambers going and you will get a hyperbolic discussion.

Your pushing for an agenda here, more historical accuracy within media that is saying it’s historical is good. But this has been an issue for many many years and it’s only really ever a sudden issue for some very specific issues.

The little mermaid was effectively stripped of its themes but… sometimes they do take an active role in pushing differences in an adaptation and in a response to what’s happened in history.
The reality is it has to be actively thought about due to the very history itself and the erasure of people. It could result in bad films, or clumsy adaptations but is itself fine.


It’s not just western gaming media, in fact it’s probably less them than the YouTube gaming channels that feed into rage clicks.
Like last year there was the full baby man tantrum over starfield, and all the “Gaming” Channels that rushed to his defence.
These channels don’t even have to give a half good explanation or response.
It’s just, it’s these people’s fault for existing, they get huge amounts more clicks, and money and much more spread than probably any traditional gaming media now.
And they didn’t even notice or talk about any of the actual really issues and criticisms of the game, better game essayists needed to come in and provide analysis in an adult way. And they didn’t even have to use the word “Woke”.
The new Indiana jones game had a loud if short outcry as well, over a person that had a rainbow pin being happy and enthusiastic about the game they worked on.
Game wasn’t out ether..

To other media and there was a surprising amount of men who where supposed Big fans of She ra, and complained about how it wasn’t Sexualised enough for them. A series with a target audience of young teen girls.

But the fact that so many of these channels hide Hate messaging behind their gaming commentary is why it’s polarising.
Men being alienated by the existence of people is a common theme so many share. They could be better people if they wanted to.
But it draws in clicks from a demographic that does need help, but there is so many men who want to pull them in more.

I didn’t reply to the BF and such since I haven’t play the recent ones, and call of duty is behind me.
Considering the US military put more budget into gaming, I wonder where it’s going now! But not really what I interested in.

Apple fox wrote:

Your pushing for an agenda here, more historical accuracy within media that is saying it’s historical is good. But this has been an issue for many many years and it’s only really ever a sudden issue for some very specific issues.

Willfull ignorance of context given but since i am nice i will reiterate what i told last page allready in short form:

IF product is based upon history or historical then historical accuracy good.
IF product established lore and universe and charachters accuracy to their core tenents good.

The fact that historical accuracy (or accuracy to the core material) is an agenda to you within the context i gave for my position is all that needs to be said about the quality of your argument.

The little mermaid was effectively stripped of its themes but… sometimes they do take an active role in pushing differences in an adaptation and in a response to what’s happened in history.

Yes and it wasn't liked by the culture that made the original whilest the happy end adaptation was liked because it was a more accessible and childfriendly iteration of still the same story themes of the original.

The reality is it has to be actively thought about due to the very history itself and the erasure of people. It could result in bad films, or clumsy adaptations but is itself fine.

No. The fact that you seem to be willing to push the integrity of a story so far out the window due to misguided nonsense via removal of themes and replacement of charachter traits, facilitating your big evil itself, namely erasure, is honestly ironic and insulting.
IF the gaming or film industry had even an inkling of actual interest outside of the western bubble and the same for the people insisting that this is good, they'd realise that theres whole continents with more than enough material to make good films for representation instead of butchering western stories and charachters whilest delievering an at best second rate replacement for their virtue signaling for said group at worst flat out wrong, cue the new spiderman game and it's western world version with the wrong flag.

It’s not just western gaming media, in fact it’s probably less them than the YouTube gaming channels that feed into rage clicks.
Like last year there was the full baby man tantrum over starfield, and all the “Gaming” Channels that rushed to his defence.

Ah, yes, the same man that now get's missrepresented online 24/ 7 by the usual crowd of gaming news. But do go on look it up yourself actually for once.

These channels don’t even have to give a half good explanation or response.

You haven't even watched if you didn't even know what made him respond that way.

It’s just, it’s these people’s fault for existing, they get huge amounts more clicks, and money and much more spread than probably any traditional gaming media now.

Really, the bold part?Really, existing is the word chosen here? Now there's some choice of vocabulary that reminds me of my days as a student in modern history.
No... That is solely on the gaming news themselves and their corruption and a little incident some time back that now get's linked to all sorts of things by certain journalists that lack integrity and got caught for it and still hate the fact that they got caught.

And they didn’t even notice or talk about any of the actual really issues and criticisms of the game, better game essayists needed to come in and provide analysis in an adult way. And they didn’t even have to use the word “Woke”.

and that is confirmation bias.

The new Indiana jones game had a loud if short outcry as well, over a person that had a rainbow pin being happy and enthusiastic about the game they worked on.
Game wasn’t out ether..

The problem was not rainbow shirt person. The problem was the statement given by that person but that is another missrepresentation of the issue.
Because so far it looks like we will get another "indiana Jones" wheel of fortune situation which is just a replacement of the titular hero with another charachter. E.g. the Indiana Jones tag is only there to attempt to capture an audience whilest the main char will be someone else.

But the fact that so many of these channels hide Hate messaging behind their gaming commentary is why it’s polarising.

No, you decided that it's Hate messaging because it doesn't align with your believes. And yet you claim it's their fault for existing.

Men being alienated by the existence of people is a common theme so many share. They could be better people if they wanted to.

Gaming being a male dominated hobby, gaming company going for the "bigger market" share (sorry they just want ESG money), blaming them via bought out gaming news outlets, is i guess ok, especially when the political add in is a thinly veiled diversion from the lackluster quality, guaranteeing access to ESG money and at the same time to cover up issues on the mechanical side of things.

But it draws in clicks from a demographic that does need help, but there is so many men who want to pull them in more.

I didn’t reply to the BF and such since I haven’t play the recent ones, and call of duty is behind me.
Considering the US military put more budget into gaming, I wonder where it’s going now! But not really what I interested in.

Imagine a volunteer army using money to recruit. Quick what an evil institution of evilness, insert minime evil pinky. You also claimed that about BF and yet couldn't point to funding`? And all i found of funding for COD was tournament sponsoring?